NEW HDB RULING RESTRICTS US FROM BUYING OVERSEAS PROPERTY

[Scoots]

ok, next they will ask us to:

 

declare overseas car ownership when we want to buy car (to control car price)

declare overseas mistress/girlfirend or any other sex partner before can apply for ROM (to improve birthrate)

declare overseas expenses during an overseas holiday (to control $$ moving out from sg)

 

 

Now while this sounds extreme, there is a ring of truth in this. Overseas investment should not be muddled into the HDB housing isue. Simply

 

1. Overseas property investment does NOT affect HDB resale prices

2. Our current problem is due to HDB requiring a (significant) demand before building and under estimating the population growth (err... don't the ministries communicate to one another??... helllo??)

3. The 'loophole' which allowed HBD flats to be rented out.

 

All these restrictions and regulations, while may acheive the intention of cooling the market in the short term, does not fix the deep rooted problem we have in the first place (or are all these new policies to serve the purpose of distraction prior to the G.E?)

 

In short: Return to HDB's mission. affordable housing

a. Peg prices to costs of all input, plus a reasonable mark up

b. Make it a requriement for owners to stay IN their flats.

[Scoots]

1. Overseas property investment does NOT affect HDB resale prices

 

I'll correct myself here a bit.

 

Those with property in JB and have the lifestyle of returning/going back to their JB homes everyday (earning SGD but spending MYR).. yes, their owning HDB does take up a portion of the supply. But situation such as these are addressed by requiring them to stay in their HDB flats. So if they prefer the JB houses, the will have to sell their HDB flats. If they want to keep their HDB flats, they'll have to move to Sg.

 

HDB flats should be lived in, and not rented out

Edited September 5, 2010 by Scoots

[Shanhz]

I'll correct myself here a bit.

 

Those with property in JB and have the lifestyle of returning/going back to their JB homes everyday (earning SGD but spending MYR).. yes, their owning HDB does take up a portion of the supply. But situation such as these are addressed by requiring them to stay in their HDB flats. So if they prefer the JB houses, the will have to sell their HDB flats. If they want to keep their HDB flats, they'll have to move to Sg.

 

HDB flats should be lived in, and not rented out

 

quite unlikely to have a rule where hdb cannot rent out. coz too many FT renting hdb flats. they cannot afford to rent condos.

[Sons_of_singapore]

HDB is trying to control too much things @ the same time (MOP, whole unit rental, Pte property, etc...) and they still expect us to be creative under all the rules & regulation? It's same like in school when yr teacher telling u what is the "correct" answer until no student is creative enough to think for themselves.

[Scoots]

quite unlikely to have a rule where hdb cannot rent out. coz too many FT renting hdb flats. they cannot afford to rent condos.

 

I differ in that opinion.

 

First, let me clarify

 

1.FW - Foreign workers: They would have dormitries, so this group should not be needing to rent HDB

2.FTs - Real FTs should be highly paid. So there is no reason they cannot afford renting private apartments. Quite a number should still qualify for expatriate terms even in these times. So this group is also not the group that needs to rent HDB

3."FTs" - the "Fake Talents" foreigners who are not doing the jobs that Singaporeans shun... the IT engineers / semicon engineers / nurses etc... they can pool resources to rent a condo apartment. Or they can rent HDB rooms from owners

 

I apologise if I had not made this clear. I believe that HDB owners should be staying in their HDB flats. They could rent out a room or two (if they are willing to accept the loss of privacy etc..) but they should be still LIVING in that flat with their tenant(s). If they can afford to move out of the HDB flat and rent it out, then the HDB flat should serve the intended purpose better by returning back to the resale market for people who really need a home

 

The FTs will simply have to factor the cost of living when they assess their work potential here. If it's not worth their while to do so ... not my problem

Edited September 5, 2010 by Scoots

[Longg8]

damn stoopid rule. hdb flats are the centre of the universe, izit?

 

 

basically they created a rule which they cannot enforce effectively.

 

 

shooting themselve in the leg....

 

utterly disappointed with local government......

[Wind30]

Now while this sounds extreme, there is a ring of truth in this. Overseas investment should not be muddled into the HDB housing isue. Simply

 

1. Overseas property investment does NOT affect HDB resale prices

2. Our current problem is due to HDB requiring a (significant) demand before building and under estimating the population growth (err... don't the ministries communicate to one another??... helllo??)

3. The 'loophole' which allowed HBD flats to be rented out.

 

All these restrictions and regulations, while may acheive the intention of cooling the market in the short term, does not fix the deep rooted problem we have in the first place (or are all these new policies to serve the purpose of distraction prior to the G.E?)

 

In short: Return to HDB's mission. affordable housing

a. Peg prices to costs of all input, plus a reasonable mark up

b. Make it a requriement for owners to stay IN their flats.

 

Can I ask you what is the cost of building a HDB? Are you going to include the cost of land?

 

I think what the government is trying to say is that if you have MONEY to invest in private property, then you should NOT be staying in HDB.

 

And by kicking you out of hdb, it increases the supply of resale flats. why does that not affect resale price?????? nowadays private condo upgraders just refuse to sell and instead rent it out due to the returns.

 

You expect the government to come up with a ruling as say you can buy OVERSEAS private property but not local private property for investment. This is encouraging their citizens to invest HUGE sums of money overseas which is like totally STUPID.....

 

Actually I though that the new measures are pretty well thought out for singaporeans who are starting out on their first property.

 

[Wind30]

I apologise if I had not made this clear. I believe that HDB owners should be staying in their HDB flats. They could rent out a room or two (if they are willing to accept the loss of privacy etc..) but they should be still LIVING in that flat with their tenant(s). If they can afford to move out of the HDB flat and rent it out, then the HDB flat should serve the intended purpose better by returning back to the resale market for people who really need a home

 

The FTs will simply have to factor the cost of living when they assess their work potential here. If it's not worth their while to do so ... not my problem

 

If that is the case, you know what will happen?

 

private property will shoot up as most the 1 million foreigners need to stay in private property as they are unable to buy or rent HDB and HDB resale will crash and you have just screwed all the singaporean citizen who own a HDB.

 

Actually singaporeans keep complaining and complaining but if you think about it, the measures the government implemented is much better than most suggestions here.

[Bismarck]

All these rules is targeted at HDB only? if u only own private and only want to buy/sell private, non of these rules affects you right? Or still affect?

 

Will these changes push up demand for privates while pulls down demand for HDB?

 

The down 10% and loan up to 70% if you still have outstanding housing loan and the 3-year stamp duty rule applied to private too if you buy/sell private.

 

Btw OT, are you the guy with the same nick at rxxx forum? Though I havent see your reno pictures but I have seen your floor plan and I think you have made the right choice for your unit, especially since you need the bed rooms for your family. The only advice I would give to you is to make sure the kitchen wall that share with your master room wall should not have any cooking stove installed, especially if you decided to put your bed against that wall.

 

Back to the new ruling, I feel it would not have come up at all or even now if the election is not coming soon. The PAP government can actually do something about it much earlier but Marlboro Tan chose to dismiss it. So I said this ruling were introduced under pressure from possible election backlash and they have to "come up" with something to pacify Singaporeans.

 

But in my view the damaged has already been done. And I feel if we continue to allow PAP to come up with last minute policies, and then after election totally ignore the feedbacks of citizens will hurt us more in the long run. Always when election is not anytime soon, they will tell us it is for our benefits, that they know best, that our complaints and feedbacks are because we "dont understand".

 

I can guarantee after the election

 

1. GST 10% will be introduced.

2. Public transport fares will increase.

3. ERP gantries for KPE will be operational. So anyone staying in NE driving or taking MRT and choose to vote for PAP are not in the right mind at all. MRT under SBS is already more expensive than SMRT run MRTs. NE residents already stay far and yet have to pay more for transport. So think about it if you are staying in NE.

4. Ministers' pay will increase. To me this is the biggest nonsense. And since they want high salary, dont expect Singaporeans to give allowance on any mistakes made.

5. More foreigners. Already mee siam mai hum said there will be x number foreigners needed.

 

Feel free to add.

[Scoots]

Can I ask you what is the cost of building a HDB? Are you going to include the cost of land?

 

I think what the government is trying to say is that if you have MONEY to invest in private property, then you should NOT be staying in HDB.

 

And by kicking you out of hdb, it increases the supply of resale flats. why does that not affect resale price?????? nowadays private condo upgraders just refuse to sell and instead rent it out due to the returns.

 

You expect the government to come up with a ruling as say you can buy OVERSEAS private property but not local private property for investment. This is encouraging their citizens to invest HUGE sums of money overseas which is like totally STUPID.....

 

Actually I though that the new measures are pretty well thought out for singaporeans who are starting out on their first property.

 

Which is why I'm advocating that for those who own HDB flats need to be staying in it. If they are not, then they will be required to sell it. Shheessshh... some people only like to shoot without thinking.

 

Property is not the only thing that people can invest in,,, shares, business.... so are you saying that people should be restricted from investing in foreign shares or businesses??

 

You are muddling the issue of housing with investment. ... the very fundamental that is contributing to our problem at hand. That peiople keep/buy HDB flats to invest

Edited September 5, 2010 by Scoots

[Scoots]

If that is the case, you know what will happen?

 

private property will shoot up as most the 1 million foreigners need to stay in private property as they are unable to buy or rent HDB and HDB resale will crash and you have just screwed all the singaporean citizen who own a HDB.

 

Actually singaporeans keep complaining and complaining but if you think about it, the measures the government implemented is much better than most suggestions here.

 

If you are staying in your own HDB... whether it's worth 10mil or 10K... you still stay in it. The paper value is like the COE to a car... virtual.

 

And if private property were to appreciate to that level ... what's the problem?

 

HDB dweller still have a home.

Pirvate property owners get papre appreciation

Private proterty investors get to earn

Future Singaporeans still have access to housing ....

 

Since you say that the measures are so good ... care to share you assessment/analysis?

[Wind30]

If you are staying in your own HDB... whether it's worth 10mil or 10K... you still stay in it. The paper value is like the COE to a car... virtual.

 

And if private property were to appreciate to that level ... what's the problem?

 

HDB dweller still have a home.

Pirvate property owners get papre appreciation

Private proterty investors get to earn

Future Singaporeans still have access to housing ....

 

Since you say that the measures are so good ... care to share you assessment/analysis?

 

sigh.... do you wish to stay in HDB ALL YOUR LIFE? maybe you do but most singaporeans want to upgrade. And when that time comes, you WANT your HDB flat to have appreciated in line with the private property prices.

 

Isn't this obvious????? By decoupling the HDB and private property prices you are condemning HDB owners to be HDB owners for the rest of the life. Imagine if we went that path 20 years ago, there will be two classes of singaporeans now. One class with private property worth a million dollars and another whose property worth a measly 100k. The guy with private property can sell his property and buy a HDB and still have 900k left over.

 

THINK.

[Wind30]

Which is why I'm advocating that for those who own HDB flats need to be staying in it. If they are not, then they will be required to sell it. Shheessshh... some people only like to shoot without thinking.

 

Property is not the only thing that people can invest in,,, shares, business.... so are you saying that people should be restricted from investing in foreign shares or businesses??

 

You are muddling the issue of housing with investment. ... the very fundamental that is contributing to our problem at hand. That peiople keep/buy HDB flats to invest

 

Since when I say people should be restricted from investing in foreign shares or business?? Restricting and NOT giving preferential treatment to foreign investments (ie encouraging singaporeans to dump their money overseas) is two totally different things.

 

as for your all HDB needs to be owner stayed suggestion... well we all know what will happen then....

[Scoots]

sigh.... do you wish to stay in HDB ALL YOUR LIFE? maybe you do but most singaporeans want to upgrade. And when that time comes, you WANT your HDB flat to have appreciated in line with the private property prices.

 

Isn't this obvious????? By decoupling the HDB and private property prices you are condemning HDB owners to be HDB owners for the rest of the life. Imagine if we went that path 20 years ago, there will be two classes of singaporeans now. One class with private property worth a million dollars and another whose property worth a measly 100k. The guy with private property can sell his property and buy a HDB and still have 900k left over.

 

THINK.

 

Please ... All private property takes HDB flats as a baseline. True current measures will affect that, but no private property can continue to appreciate indefinately. If HDB is affordable at 400-500K range, will you pay 2 mil to stay in a 99yr lease condo of similar size?... no ... you'll make do with you HDB and invest your money elsewhere!

 

THINK!

Edited September 5, 2010 by Scoots

[Scoots]

Since when I say people should be restricted from investing in foreign shares or business?? Restricting and NOT giving preferential treatment to foreign investments (ie encouraging singaporeans to dump their money overseas) is two totally different things.

You wrote:

You expect the government to come up with a ruling as say you can buy OVERSEAS private property but not local private property for investment. This is encouraging their citizens to invest HUGE sums of money overseas which is like totally STUPID.....

If your argument here is not about restricting investment overseas, I think you need to rephrase yourself. Investing in foreign shares is overseas investment. Investing in business on other countries is overseas investment. Buying a property overseas is overseas investment.

 

If property can be restricted here. Something can come along and the new area of restriction can be in shares/business ... the fundamental does not change

 

as for your all HDB needs to be owner stayed suggestion... well we all know what will happen then....

Actually no, What will happen?

Edited September 5, 2010 by Scoots

[Shanhz]

HDB is trying to control too much things @ the same time (MOP, whole unit rental, Pte property, etc...) and they still expect us to be creative under all the rules & regulation? It's same like in school when yr teacher telling u what is the "correct" answer until no student is creative enough to think for themselves.

 

they expect you to think of the loopholes within the rules and regulations.. ie: encourage creativity. no conflict here. haha..

[Kangadrool]

nope. 6 mths, not years.

:D Sorry for the mistake.

 

[Piyopico]

sigh.... do you wish to stay in HDB ALL YOUR LIFE? maybe you do but most singaporeans want to upgrade. And when that time comes, you WANT your HDB flat to have appreciated in line with the private property prices.

 

Isn't this obvious????? By decoupling the HDB and private property prices you are condemning HDB owners to be HDB owners for the rest of the life. Imagine if we went that path 20 years ago, there will be two classes of singaporeans now. One class with private property worth a million dollars and another whose property worth a measly 100k. The guy with private property can sell his property and buy a HDB and still have 900k left over.

 

THINK.

 

 

Please lah, if HDB prices stay at a certain level, then the prices of private property will also not rise beyond a certain level. No one who stays in a HDB will be condemned. When you have accumulated enough cash, you move on to private property. No complications. You think that 99 year lease private condo will be selling at S$1M if the surrounding HDB resale flats are not selling at S$500K onwards? Your analogy is totally unrealistic.

 

On a separate issue:

Two years ago BTO flats were offered at between S$200K and S$250K for Punggol. In the latest sale of excess flats, HDB is selling these same flats for between S$300K to S$350K!!! The whole pricing formulae is just not right. Many have bought BTOs in the last two years that are between 25% to 40% higher. The flats are still being built, yet the price has gone up by a whooping 40% just because the resale flats in the same area has gone up. HDB sells it to you between S$50K to S$70K cheaper then these resale flats and say you MUST be grateful cos they are subsidised and if you DUNWAN, there are many others in line!

 

This is just Bull s--t! You know what will happen now if the prices of resale flats go back down by 25%? Yes, it will be back to 2008 BTO prices and thousands will be screwed cos they will be down by S$100K straight away before even getting hold of their flats.