Car deposit

[Kwanheng]

Hi bros,

 

I got a story to share, and I need advise on my end.

 

My parents are dealing in mobile crane business, recently they wanted to close down the company.

 

Last month they got a buyer who made a deposit of 20k without asking the vehicle history.

 

A few weeks later they buyer pop up with another buyer who is buying the crane from the first buyer.

 

And after the 2nd buyer inspect the crane they found out that the vehicle font dash was replace as it was in a minor accident. However due to parts limitation it was replaced by parts from a older modal crane.

 

Now the first buyer demand my dad to return his deposit after 1 month else he will sue my dad.

 

My dad did sign a voucher Which contain his ic number, sale price, deposit price. but it does not show the terms and condition for the deposit when he sign it!

 

Now after asking the buyer to send us his copy of voucher the voucher has been edited and it's written in a different hand writing saying dealer must return deposit if the crane fails the inspection.

 

Bros please advise, thank you for reading my store:)

[Edwinatie]

Best is to consult a lawyer and let them see all documents on what is written as agreement. No point asking here.

[Kwanheng]

Best is to consult a lawyer and let them see all documents on what is written as agreement. No point asking here.

Yes I have asked them to do so, just want to got some advice on the case:)

[Acieed]

When I encounter people like that, I will at least write down some simple conditions like what is the purpose of the deposit. Usually it is a non-refundable deposit to secure the purchase and that I will not sell the vehicle to another party until a certain date. Certainly I wouldn't want to wait forever for this buyer to come back with the balance amount. Both party sign on same copy.

 

However, do consult a lawyer as it sounds like the other party is playing punk and the usual gentlemen rules does not apply anymore.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2011 by Acieed

[PSP415]

Personally my tots :

 

1. Did yr dad keep a copy or photocopy of original voucher when he sign?

Strange if the answer is "No" cos 20k is nt a small amt. If "yes" then no issue though I am surprised at the lack of terms + conditions which yr dad did nt pursue.

 

2. The "edited" part on voucher is typewritten or handwritten? Are e corrections or additions on it counter-signed by yr dad?

It is not valid if the amendments are not counter-signed by yr dad. Need nt worry cos its obviously an attempt to suit buyer's change of mind.

 

3. What is e verbal understanding between yr dad and e buyer upon deposit?

Rare that a deal fall thru due to a small dispute. Can e "rejected" part be changed to its original specs to salvage e deal?

 

If there is no material loss to yr dad (crane still with him + nt operated once by buyer), I suggest a mutual "fee" for holding on to e crane for e one month period. Eg. 2k-5k

If there is a loss of opportunity ie there was another genuine buyer whom yr dad had to turn away (must hv evidence) then u have a stronger case to refuse full refund.

 

Frankly, I suggest a partial refund to be mutually agreed. Lawyers' fees nt cheap and better settle like gentlemen otherwise in e end, most of e $ goes to paying e lawyers.

 

If the buyer refuses, he is nt wise. In most, if nt all business transactions, a deposit is usually non-refundable or partially refundable unless clearly stated. Otherwise suka suka make ppl "hold" the deal for nothing.

 

Just my point of views + sharing based on yr brief account.

 

 

Cheers

[Iisterry]

Ask them to go ahead and sue. Both parties stand to lose financially regardless of outcome.

 

If they were going to submit a forged document as evidence in court, they must really not have much intelligence to begin with. Is the agreement/voucher a carbon copy or a simple document? Someone must have the original and expert forensics will easily reveal the truth.

 

I am not sure about cranes and their structural integrity but since your dad knew about it, it was morally wrong of him not to reveal it.

 

I will suggest a compromise. Let the original buyer simmer down and show him that it will do no one any good (except the lawyers) if he were to commence legal action. Your dad can offer to replace the part with the original type or to re-negotiate the selling price or to refund a partial deposit or a variation of the solutions.

[Kwanheng]

Personally my tots :

 

1. Did yr dad keep a copy or photocopy of original voucher when he sign?

Strange if the answer is "No" cos 20k is nt a small amt. If "yes" then no issue though I am surprised at the lack of terms + conditions which yr dad did nt pursue.

 

2. The "edited" part on voucher is typewritten or handwritten? Are e corrections or additions on it counter-signed by yr dad?

It is not valid if the amendments are not counter-signed by yr dad. Need nt worry cos its obviously an attempt to suit buyer's change of mind.

 

3. What is e verbal understanding between yr dad and e buyer upon deposit?

Rare that a deal fall thru due to a small dispute. Can e "rejected" part be changed to its original specs to salvage e deal?

 

If there is no material loss to yr dad (crane still with him + nt operated once by buyer), I suggest a mutual "fee" for holding on to e crane for e one month period. Eg. 2k-5k

If there is a loss of opportunity ie there was another genuine buyer whom yr dad had to turn away (must hv evidence) then u have a stronger case to refuse full refund.

 

Frankly, I suggest a partial refund to be mutually agreed. Lawyers' fees nt cheap and better settle like gentlemen otherwise in e end, most of e $ goes to paying e lawyers.

 

If the buyer refuses, he is nt wise. In most, if nt all business transactions, a deposit is usually non-refundable or partially refundable unless clearly stated. Otherwise suka suka make ppl "hold" the deal for nothing.

 

Just my point of views + sharing based on yr brief account.

 

 

Cheers

1) no he did not keep a copy

2) there is no counter sign on the edited part and it's a simple hand written voucher.

3) no terms were menation when placing the deposit, only the edited voucher suddenly states that deposit can be refund.

Thanks for your thought it helped a lot

Edited June 16, 2011 by Kwanheng

[Kwanheng]

Ask them to go ahead and sue. Both parties stand to lose financially regardless of outcome.

 

If they were going to submit a forged document as evidence in court, they must really not have much intelligence to begin with. Is the agreement/voucher a carbon copy or a simple document? Someone must have the original and expert forensics will easily reveal the truth.

 

I am not sure about cranes and their structural integrity but since your dad knew about it, it was morally wrong of him not to reveal it.

 

I will suggest a compromise. Let the original buyer simmer down and show him that it will do no one any good (except the lawyers) if he were to commence legal action. Your dad can offer to replace the part with the original type or to re-negotiate the selling price or to refund a partial deposit or a variation of the solutions.

It's a simple hand written voucher, only the buyer as he orginal copy. There is no carbon copy, the only copy we have is the one edited and faxed to us.

[PSP415]

Haha....reminded me of a chinese saying abt "adding feet to a snake" on a painting.

 

That buyer's move actually trapped himself. If its so obvious that yr dad "agreed" to the contents of the voucher in the first place, who in their right mind will sue?

 

Still, I suggest a partial refund....hopefully yr dad can resolve this amicably. In future, MUST keep a copy for own records and safe keeping. Dun add "feet" though...

 

 

Cheers

[Iisterry]

It's a simple hand written voucher, only the buyer as he orginal copy. There is no carbon copy, the only copy we have is the one edited and faxed to us.

 

Well, at least you have a faxed copy. Forensics will still reveal if it has been doctored. He will be seriously retarded to even think of such an option.

 

Advice has been given to you. It would be best to let the buyer think about it and offer a compromise of sorts. A win-win solution.

 

The legal option is only a win for the lawyers and a lose for both parties.

[Mllcg]

if there are 2 copies, one carboned copy, u cant hide. 2 different entries.

 

and u cant use a normal plain paper to "write" on the carbonised ones

[Timex1441]

Ask them to go ahead and sue. Both parties stand to lose financially regardless of outcome.

 

If they were going to submit a forged document as evidence in court, they must really not have much intelligence to begin with. Is the agreement/voucher a carbon copy or a simple document? Someone must have the original and expert forensics will easily reveal the truth.

 

I am not sure about cranes and their structural integrity but since your dad knew about it, it was morally wrong of him not to reveal it.

 

I will suggest a compromise. Let the original buyer simmer down and show him that it will do no one any good (except the lawyers) if he were to commence legal action. Your dad can offer to replace the part with the original type or to re-negotiate the selling price or to refund a partial deposit or a variation of the solutions.

i'm very sure they dun dare to sue....becos no guarantee they'll win, n the legal expenses will be significant....so, it's now a poker game....see who got more "poker face" or more balls.