SG Hard Truth by Prof Tommy Koh

[Celicar]

I think where we are located is one of our greatest assets but also one of our greatest curses. We are a busy port and at the centre of commerce because of where we are. At the same time, being surrounded by countries that are able to offer cheap labour means we either justify our higher price by providing something different (be more upmarket), or sink down and compete by trying to offer the best value for money. Not necessarily the cheapest, but not too expensive. With inflation, we are caught with crazy prices but wage cannot increase until we price ourselves out of the market.

[Kiadaw]

wah dunno in my lifetime can see a local win an olympic gold medal!!!

Yes, if these games/sports are played, we will be favorite:

 

The Sport of complain.

the Blaming game. Singaporeans kids learn this since young, "its always someone else fault", we are so good its 2nd natural.

 

[Wasted]

Yes, if these games/sports are played, we will be favorite:

 

The Sport of complain.

the Blaming game. Singaporeans kids learn this since young, "its always someone else fault", we are so good its 2nd natural.

 

Gold silver bronze we can bao ka liao!!!

[Jflcorp]

So is Singapore willing to farm out their children to nordic states the way Philipines farming out their children to Singapore, Arab world etc?

 

Are Singaporeans willing to go to some nordic state to be a cleaner/bus driver?

 

Dig deep before just simply anyhow compare and complain.

[Maroon5]

So is Singapore willing to farm out their children to nordic states the way Philipines farming out their children to Singapore, Arab world etc?

 

Are Singaporeans willing to go to some nordic state to be a cleaner/bus driver?

 

Dig deep before just simply anyhow compare and complain.

 

i hv no qualms tat it wil b alot more regular and common in the next generation. c'mon u speak like these countries are part of africa.

[Toapayohkid]

So is Singapore willing to farm out their children to nordic states the way Philipines farming out their children to Singapore, Arab world etc?

 

Are Singaporeans willing to go to some nordic state to be a cleaner/bus driver?

 

Dig deep before just simply anyhow compare and complain.

 

:) where is the fun in bitching if dig deep into comparing apple and orange? don't spoil the mood lah

[Wyfitms]

i think it is a good read. Would be better if he can take into account net spending power (after taxes and cost of living), to have a better feel how our lives compare with that of countries with similar GDP per capita.

 

Maybe i'm wrong, but my own limited experience tells me that in these countries with smaller income gaps, ppl are more friendly and life is less stressful as most ppl earn similar income. No one "looks down" on a driver or cleaner, and one would choose a job that he/ she is competent in or has an interest in and not have to worry abt not being able to put food on the table.

 

 

[Wyfitms]

Petrol in Norway is abt S$3-4/L.

 

A typical brand new 2L car is about S$100k. Of coz there's no COE...so can drive as long as u want to. Taxes on cars are more expensive in Norway too, made up of many components like carbon emission, power of engine, etc.

 

Land is cheap compared to SG but the labour and material cost to build the house will make the overall cost similar to SG.

 

How's public transport there? Prob more bearable than singapore where it is so crowded aka sardine effect

[Wyfitms]

cai png is $5/6 in food court now

 

and dunno which smart MIW stop the building of hawker centers... luckily they reverse the policy

 

But Golden shoe gog for redevelopment (soon?).. then my $2 cai png will be gone...

[Kiadaw]

i think it is a good read. Would be better if he can take into account net spending power (after taxes and cost of living), to have a better feel how our lives compare with that of countries with similar GDP per capita.

 

Maybe i'm wrong, but my own limited experience tells me that in these countries with smaller income gaps, ppl are more friendly and life is less stressful as most ppl earn similar income. No one "looks down" on a driver or cleaner, and one would choose a job that he/ she is competent in or has an interest in and not have to worry abt not being able to put food on the table.

 

Net spending power is one thing, but also social insurance like Healthcare & retirement, & education is also important. The worst thing about going to hospital for treatment, is to worry about the huge bill after that, especially when there is need for operation. Or need to worry about whether you have enough funds for your child education.

 

Also, looks down cleaners, construction workers have more to do with in Singapore society upbringing & mindset then income gap.

 

I do not know about you guys, but I have been drilled since young many time by relative, teachers, parents etc if I do not study, I will end up doing construction work, or clean table etc.

 

So this mindset still exist in many Singaporeans' mind. Sad but that's Singapore.

[Wyfitms]

tats y the folks there live a good retirement. they may or may not get to travel but at least they dun hv to slog to the graves for subsistence.

 

seriously i thk our elders generation got pawned big time. the economy and prices have moved so ahead and yet they are still living w 1990s value cpf money. their cpf earning 2.5% while inflation runs at 5-6% (n u hv to take a big pinch of salt on their "basket of goods" as well as the sample of families they chose). real wages have moved at least double digits and our elders stil fight for scraps w FT cos they are unskilled and old and deemed "unproductive enough". and lastly they wan all of us to work till 67 yo and the senior citizens concession travel starts at 930am!! wat a slap!

 

Actually, i think it is our generation that will get pwn big time..

 

My parent's generation has enjoyed good bank interest rates (5% to 7%) and many have saved a good pile of cash. Cost of living was low when they were in their 30s & 40s and a family can survive on a modest civil servant's pay of 2k-3k. And now when it's time to retire, they dun have to worry so much as all debts are cleared and being old, they dun have to eat rich food or buy stuff, so a few hundred is enough to spend each mth.

 

However for many of my peers, they are struggling mth to mth, even with 2 person working, each earning more than 4K. HDB alone eats up all CPF savings. Cash poor and high debt for them. That's the reality for 80% of ppl in our generation. It's sad to hear a couple, both Uni grads and in their late 30s, saying that they feel poor every month...

[Wyfitms]

Net spending power is one thing, but also social insurance like Healthcare & retirement, & education is also important. The worst thing about going to hospital for treatment, is to worry about the huge bill after that, especially when there is need for operation. Or need to worry about whether you have enough funds for your child education.

 

Also, looks down cleaners, construction workers have more to do with in Singapore society upbringing & mindset then income gap.

 

I do not know about you guys, but I have been drilled since young many time by relative, teachers, parents etc if I do not study, I will end up doing construction work, or clean table etc.

 

So this mindset still exist in many Singaporeans' mind. Sad but that's Singapore.

 

Someone is gog to joke abt your cleaning table remark...

 

seriously, i think it is the income that make us have such mindset. If a cleaner can be paid 3.6K a mth, and same as a teacher, things could be different...

[Kiadaw]

Actually, i think it is our NEXT generation that will get pwn big time..

Corrected for you....

 

1) More over crowding

2) Smaller home & much more expensive

3) less likely to be able to own cars

4) still have to do NS, when more than half of the male population do not have to.

 

[Jman888]

Net spending power is one thing, but also social insurance like Healthcare & retirement, & education is also important. The worst thing about going to hospital for treatment, is to worry about the huge bill after that, especially when there is need for operation. Or need to worry about whether you have enough funds for your child education.

 

Also, looks down cleaners, construction workers have more to do with in Singapore society upbringing & mindset then income gap.

 

I do not know about you guys, but I have been drilled since young many time by relative, teachers, parents etc if I do not study, I will end up doing construction work, or clean table etc.

 

So this mindset still exist in many Singaporeans' mind. Sad but that's Singapore.

 

 

looking down on certain jobs is not only singapore, more like the whole asia.

[Wyfitms]

Corrected for you....

 

1) More over crowding

2) Smaller home & much more expensive

3) less likely to be able to own cars

4) still have to do NS, when more than half of the male population do not have to.

 

 

Now i understand why my wife is so kiasu to make sure my kid is very exposed.. and have to be home-schooled in the early years

[Maroon5]

Actually, i think it is our generation that will get pwn big time..

 

My parent's generation has enjoyed good bank interest rates (5% to 7%) and many have saved a good pile of cash. Cost of living was low when they were in their 30s & 40s and a family can survive on a modest civil servant's pay of 2k-3k. And now when it's time to retire, they dun have to worry so much as all debts are cleared and being old, they dun have to eat rich food or buy stuff, so a few hundred is enough to spend each mth.

 

However for many of my peers, they are struggling mth to mth, even with 2 person working, each earning more than 4K. HDB alone eats up all CPF savings. Cash poor and high debt for them. That's the reality for 80% of ppl in our generation. It's sad to hear a couple, both Uni grads and in their late 30s, saying that they feel poor every month...

 

its abit diff. ur parents seem middle class and in the 80s, tats quite big deal. like a diploma holder then is damn big f cos alot more of that generation are o levels or lower and relied alot on physical work for a living. these pple def cant carry as much or deliver as many orders now. they also contributed cpf all their lives but note, low pay = low contribution. with the prices around now (esp medical), these pple would need to cont to slog to survive. can they depend on their kids allowances? to a certain extent but as in your eg, 2 graduates in the late 30s struggle to raise their own families.

 

as for our generation - i thk the graduate is now the new entry level workers. we rely on selling our time to earn a living. the only diff is we are educated and that gives us the base for all kinds of upgrading to improve our lives and plan for a better retirement. cant say the same for the previous generation.

 

[Timbuktu]

However for many of my peers, they are struggling mth to mth, even with 2 person working, each earning more than 4K. HDB alone eats up all CPF savings. Cash poor and high debt for them. That's the reality for 80% of ppl in our generation. It's sad to hear a couple, both Uni grads and in their late 30s, saying that they feel poor every month...

You have just described the newly govt-defined sandwiched class lor.

Some even in their 40's wor

 

 

[Wyfitms]

its abit diff. ur parents seem middle class and in the 80s, tats quite big deal. like a diploma holder then is damn big f cos alot more of that generation are o levels or lower and relied alot on physical work for a living. these pple def cant carry as much or deliver as many orders now. they also contributed cpf all their lives but note, low pay = low contribution. with the prices around now (esp medical), these pple would need to cont to slog to survive. can they depend on their kids allowances? to a certain extent but as in your eg, 2 graduates in the late 30s struggle to raise their own families.

 

as for our generation - i thk the graduate is now the new entry level workers. we rely on selling our time to earn a living. the only diff is we are educated and that gives us the base for all kinds of upgrading to improve our lives and plan for a better retirement. cant say the same for the previous generation.

.

 

I was using my in laws and another fren's father as examples. One is an army warrant officer - no formal education but managed to support family on his own. The other is a admin guy in the civil service. One advantage for them is that being civil servants, they (and spouse) are entitled to free medical care. I guess this alone makes a big difference.

 

But, yeah, i get your point.