Cyclist Problem

[Scoots]

U r juz like my dear fren, Scoot. I have no problem sharing my road riding experience. Instead, i got a rude response from you. [laugh]

 

I suppose you are refering to me, if yes, my nick is ScootS, not Scoot, and we both know I am definitely not any dear fren of yours, so why be sucha hypocrite?

 

I declined your many 'invitations' in the past because there were all challenges to points which:

1. I had already stated my poit

2. Which you could not disprove, but only play the "you won't know unless you ride ..." card

 

I have not been burnt before but I also did not have to play with fire to know that. There's a such a thing called common sense.

 

LikeI had mentiond before, I don't need to cycle to know how dangerous it is. If you chose to, go ahead. But that does not mean that cyclists are a special breed that deserves special treatment, neither does it mean that cyclists can come up with their own 'rules' of how they should behave on the roads which is common to all road users.

 

[Trebuchet]

Pay first. Amount can discuss.

 

Bicycles are on roads as cockroaches are in the house - drivers don't like and should the roads as unwelcoming as possible, before infestation builds.

 

I rode my bike to work for 4 years, before I bought a car and and I have now been driving for the last 3.

 

I find being a cyclist is safer, contrary to what you think about being surrounded by a metal shell.

 

For that matter, flying in an airplane is safer than driving, scuba diving is safer than driving. Fewer people die on a bicycle, compared to people in cars, per million journeys.

 

Drivers don't like a lot of things. Busses, slower cars, faster cars, motorbikers, pedestrians, trees, white ants, and especially other drivers. Want to get them all off your grandfather road?

 

Lastly the idea of paying road tax to ride a bicycle on roads is preposterous. The idea of asking cyclists not to ride on a road, and only in PCN or parks, is even more blitheringly idiotic.

 

Not an attack on you, just your ideas, for they are stupid.

 

[Elfenstar]

I beg to differ on this. If I judge that the gap is just nice for me to pass through or overtake, i will do so. I have a habit of driving on the "drain path" right next to a kerb to quickly pass a car that takes too long to filter to another lane.

 

You know that's called dangerous driving regardless of vehicle you're passing right?

[Elfenstar]

To me. Yes. But they pay road tax. So they get my respect.

 

Pay first. Amount can discuss.

 

Bicycles are on roads as cockroaches are in the house - drivers don't like and should the roads as unwelcoming as possible, before infestation builds.

 

As bro Trebuchet noticed as well, you're obviously not the smartest pea in the pod. Let me repeat what was said earlier.

 

Road tax is not a fee you pay to use. It is a penalty paid because of the damage caused. Why should a cyclist pay for something he/she isn't causing?

Edited July 23, 2012 by Elfenstar

[Gnahp]

As a driver, motorcyclist, pedestrian, public transport commuter, I don't have a single good thing to say about cyclists.

 

 

[Elfenstar]

I suppose you are refering to me, if yes, my nick is ScootS, not Scoot, and we both know I am definitely not any dear fren of yours, so why be sucha hypocrite?

 

I declined your many 'invitations' in the past because there were all challenges to points which:

1. I had already stated my poit

2. Which you could not disprove, but only play the "you won't know unless you ride ..." card

 

I have not been burnt before but I also did not have to play with fire to know that. There's a such a thing called common sense.

 

LikeI had mentiond before, I don't need to cycle to know how dangerous it is. If you chose to, go ahead. But that does not mean that cyclists are a special breed that deserves special treatment, neither does it mean that cyclists can come up with their own 'rules' of how they should behave on the roads which is common to all road users.

 

Actually perception and common sense are two different things. Based on extremely conservative cyclist figures (as it is not recorded in SingStat), it's probably safer to cycle than to drive.

 

Nobody is asking for special treatment or own rules. Though TP gives some special treatment (co-related to how vulnerable the road user is), the same rules apply to everyone. We are simply asking for the same due care that any road user should give to every other road user.

 

P.S. It's all here http://www.mycarforum.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry4529731, and http://www.mycarforum.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry4530574

 

Edited July 23, 2012 by Elfenstar

[Trebuchet]

Some people say NPNT, so here's the definitive pic to end this discussion.

 

Source: SingStat

What now, geniuses?

Edited July 23, 2012 by Trebuchet

[Elfenstar]

As a driver, motorcyclist, pedestrian, public transport commuter, I don't have a single good thing to say about cyclists.

 

Do you remember (or even notice) all the good cyclists or only the bad ones? There is a known psychological phenomena that addresses this.

[Tonyng]

I rode my bike to work for 4 years, before I bought a car and and I have now been driving for the last 3.

 

I find being a cyclist is safer, contrary to what you think about being surrounded by a metal shell.

 

For that matter, flying in an airplane is safer than driving, scuba diving is safer than driving. Fewer people die on a bicycle, compared to people in cars, per million journeys.

 

Drivers don't like a lot of things. Busses, slower cars, faster cars, motorbikers, pedestrians, trees, white ants, and especially other drivers. Want to get them all off your grandfather road?

 

Lastly the idea of paying road tax to ride a bicycle on roads is preposterous. The idea of asking cyclists not to ride on a road, and only in PCN or parks, is even more blitheringly idiotic.

 

Not an attack on you, just your ideas, for they are stupid.

 

Why is road tax on bicycle preposterous? What are the specifics of your stand?

 

This concept is not new. Well reported and debated. In fact many cycling organizations actually put out statements on why cyclist should not - and of course, I think their reasons are not good

 

Safe biking on PCN is idiotic? Please elaborate too.

 

No offence. I just want to show that your ideas are stupid as you probably are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trebuchet]

1. Why is road tax on bicycle preposterous? What are the specifics of your stand?

 

2. This concept is not new. Well reported and debated. In fact many cycling organizations actually put out statements on why cyclist should not - and of course, I think their reasons are not good

 

3. Safe biking on PCN is idiotic? Please elaborate too.

 

4. No offence. I just want to show that your ideas are stupid as you probably are.

 

1, a bicycle can be used at any age. So if you buy your 6 year old a bike, you should have to pay tax. What about roller blades?

 

2. As you mentioned (I think), this is Singapore. And, though the concept is not new, no country on Earth has managed to implement it. Why so? Not even New York, and I believe their drivers hate cyclists even more than "people with your kind of ideas".

 

3. I meant "only on PCN or parks". So to ride my bike, I need to go to the park/PCN, hmm...I must... push my bike there? Take a taxi? Drive?

 

4. Well played, sir, but I am not going to stoop to your level of personal insults, yet. Nice avatar by the way.

 

 

[Tonyng]

As bro Trebuchet noticed as well, you're obviously not the smartest pea in the pod. Let me repeat what was said earlier.

 

Road tax is not a fee you pay to use. It is a penalty paid because of the damage caused. Why should a cyclist pay for something he/she isn't causing?

 

Cyclists increase cost of travel for everybody - braking, slowing down, accident effects, indirectly increasing emissions of other road users as a result.

 

Most importantly, because it feels right. Cyclists will share a responsibility when they put cash on the table.

 

Their money collected can be seed money for bicycle lanes - the goal - but it seems most road cyclists here don't sound like they would appreciate.

 

By the way, I also think there should be cyclist proficiency test for road users.

 

 

[Elfenstar]

Why is road tax on bicycle preposterous? What are the specifics of your stand?

 

This concept is not new. Well reported and debated. In fact many cycling organizations actually put out statements on why cyclist should not - and of course, I think their reasons are not good ...

 

Hmm... since I drive a 3l car, and you a Suzuki (of which the largest engined is the 2.4l Vitara and Kizashi), does this mean that I should make "the roads as unwelcoming as possible" for you as well as any other car that pays less road tax than I do? Essentially that's what you're telling me I should do

[Tonyng]

1, a bicycle can be used at any age. So if you buy your 6 year old a bike, you should have to pay tax. What about roller blades?

 

2. As you mentioned (I think), this is Singapore. And, though the concept is not new, no country on Earth has managed to implement it. Why so? Not even New York, and I believe their drivers hate cyclists even more than "people with your kind of ideas".

 

3. I meant "only on PCN or parks". So to ride my bike, I need to go to the park/PCN, hmm...I must... push my bike there? Take a taxi? Drive?

 

4. Well played, sir, but I am not going to stoop to your level of personal insults, yet. Nice avatar by the way.

 

Point by point... I like.

 

1. Wow, your first point is an implementation issue. So you agree that road tax should be charged on cyclist in principle?

 

2. Again implement issue. See above.

 

3. Yes. Push. If too far, use bicycle racks for cars. No car? Too bad.

 

4. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

 

[Elfenstar]

Cyclists increase cost of travel for everybody - braking, slowing down, accident effects, indirectly increasing emissions of other road users as a result.

 

Most importantly, because it feels right. Cyclists will share a responsibility when they put cash on the table.

 

Their money collected can be seed money for bicycle lanes - the goal - but it seems most road cyclists here don't sound like they would appreciate.

 

By the way, I also think there should be cyclist proficiency test for road users.

 

Uh oh, you're showing your lack of intelligence again. Its a well documented fact that the more cyclists there are, the less congestion there is on the roads.

http://thisbigcity.net/tackling-congestion...raging-cycling/

http://www.ecf.com/news/the-darker-side-of...-world-economy/

http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/aboutsy...sentation-3.pdf

 

In fact, the only reason you would have increased emissions is because of your lousy driving. It's also a known scientific fact that for any given gear, the lower your rpm, the lesser the emissions.

 

As for accidents, haven't you seen the statistics I posted earlier? Cyclists contribute very little. Also do note my earlier link on cyclists contributing less to accidents as the cycling population goes up.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Elfenstar

[Tonyng]

Hmm... since I drive a 3l car, and you a Suzuki (of which the largest engined is the 2.4l Vitara and Kizashi), does this mean that I should make "the roads as unwelcoming as possible" for you as well as any other car that pays less road tax than I do? Essentially that's what you're telling me I should do

 

You know my point. Not between car and car but between no pay vs got pay.

 

My car gotten smaller. I lose. In cc only. I hope.

[Trebuchet]

Point by point... I like.

 

1. Wow, your first point is an implementation issue. So you agree that road tax should be charged on cyclist in principle?

 

2. Again implement issue. See above.

 

3. Yes. Push. If too far, use bicycle racks for cars. No car? Too bad.

 

4. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

 

1 & 2. Even if I agree that cyclists should be taxed, I have already plainly stated that I feel the entire idea is preposterous, implementation issues included.

 

3. Only an idiot would push a bike, or take a cab to ride in nearby park connector or park. Hence my words "blitheringly idiotic". It's like hiring a prostitute when you're Hugh Hefner. I suppose you also wear shoes and socks to bed, or put on a tuxedo to go buy fast food. I didn't feel this really needed explanation, but there you go.

 

4. You are welcum

Edited July 23, 2012 by Trebuchet

[Elfenstar]

You know my point. Not between car and car but between no pay vs got pay.

 

My car gotten smaller. I lose. In cc only. I hope.

 

Let me play devils advocate and hopefully show you the slippery slope your statement leads to.

 

But I pay more what, doesn't that entitle me to more just like how it entitles you to more over cyclists who don't pay?

 

P.S. Didn't I already do this to you once? Think about it this way. at 3l I have to pay about $2.4k per year. The difference between this and a 2l car that pays about $1.2k per year, is about the same as that of a 2l car and a cyclist.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Elfenstar

[Tonyng]

Uh oh, you're showing your lack of intelligence again. Its a well documented fact that the more cyclists there are, the less congestion there is on the roads.

http://thisbigcity.net/tackling-congestion...raging-cycling/

http://www.ecf.com/news/the-darker-side-of...-world-economy/

http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/aboutsy...sentation-3.pdf

 

In fact, the only reason you would have increased emissions is because of your lousy driving. It's also a known scientific fact that for any given gear, the lower your rpm, the lesser the emissions.

 

As for accidents, haven't you seen the statistics I posted earlier? Cyclists contribute very little. Also do note my earlier link on cyclists contributing less to accidents as the cycling population goes up.

 

I imagine a Singapore, not other countries, without cyclists.

 

Congested less or more?

 

Cyclist accidents less or more?

 

If more, cyclists contribute. So pay up.

 

Uh oh. You are doing your cyclist cause in by posting more you know.