Cyclist Problem

[Elfenstar]

I imagine a Singapore, not other countries, without cyclists.

 

Congested less or more?

 

Cyclist accidents less or more?

 

If more, cyclists contribute. So pay up.

 

Uh oh. You are doing your cyclist cause in by posting more you know.

 

Everything I linked to can be applied to SG.

 

The stats are fairly straightforward on cycling.

 

Congestion gets less with more cyclists. It takes 6 bicycles to take up the space of 1 car.

 

Accidents are less too as the stats show. See my earlier reply to bro Nzy where I extrapolated data. Absolute figures for accidents are less. As a percentage of all accidents, far less. As accidents compared to the number of cyclists (and the same for cars), its probably less too. It's a known fact that the more cyclists there are, the number of accidents compared to the number of cyclists drops.

 

Pollution is less (without even taking into account the pollution costs of manufacturing).

 

Health and well being of the user is more.

 

Being economical to the user is more.

[Tonyng]

1 & 2. Even if I agree that cyclists should be taxed, I have already plainly stated that I feel the entire idea is preposterous, implementation issues included.

 

3. Only an idiot would push a bike, or take a cab to ride in nearby park connector or park. Hence my words "blitheringly idiotic". It's like hiring a prostitute when you're Hugh Hefner. I suppose you also wear shoes and socks to bed, or put on a tuxedo to go buy fast food. I didn't feel this really needed explanation, but there you go.

 

4. You are welcum

 

1 & 2. Sorry, what other issues have you included, other than 'implementation issues', in support of your so plain assertion 'entire idea is preposterous' in your last few posts?

[Tonyng]

Everything I linked to can be applied to SG.

 

The stats are fairly straightforward on cycling.

 

Congestion gets less with more cyclists. It takes 6 bicycles to take up the space of 1 car.

 

Accidents are less too as the stats show. See my earlier reply to bro Nzy where I extrapolated data. Absolute figures for accidents are less. As a percentage of all accidents, far less. As accidents compared to the number of cyclists (and the same for cars), its probably less too. It's a known fact that the more cyclists there are, the number of accidents compared to the number of cyclists drops.

 

Pollution is less (without even taking into account the pollution costs of manufacturing).

 

Health and well being of the user is more.

 

Being economical to the user is more.

 

You assume every cyclist ride will replace a car journey.

 

Haha. in your dreams.

 

[Elfenstar]

You assume every cyclist ride will replace a car journey.

 

Haha. in your dreams.

 

If not vehicular congestion, the it will reduce our already overcrowded public transport system. Either way the community benefits, and every other point still stands.

 

I almost forgot to mention, did you know that in peak hours, and at all times for the red bus lanes, cyclists can use them? How's that for moving people without adding to congestion!

Edited July 23, 2012 by Elfenstar

[Nzy]

You assume every cyclist ride will replace a car journey.

 

Haha. in your dreams.

 

Even if the cyclist is replacing a train ride or bus ride, it'll still help to reduce the congestion. There'll be less people on the trains and buses if more people cycle. Then if there are less people on trains and buses, more people might decide its worth it to leave their cars at home and use public transport to travel to work since its less crowded.

[Picia]

This is Singapore. Different history, different mindsets.

 

You want to transplant the system here.. Like replacing our national flower as tulip.

 

No, I did not say to transplant those systems here. The point was, as you mention "different mindsets", to enable those who have not cycled in those places before or even been to those places before where cyclists are actually respected to understand a different mindset and hopefully, increase the mutual respect on the roads in Singapore by doing so. I would say anyone would agree that more respect is good for safety, except those whose minds are closed to any idea except that "car is king of the road".

Edited July 23, 2012 by Picia

[Trebuchet]

1 & 2. Sorry, what other issues have you included, other than 'implementation issues', in support of your so plain assertion 'entire idea is preposterous' in your last few posts?

 

The pic I posted from Singstat already showed the ratio of cyclist accidents to vehicular accidents. Goods vans and pick-ups are involved in only slightly more accidents than cyclists year on year, and by your argument, that shouldn't happen because they do pay tax what.

 

If you think cylists would magically change their behaviour because they pay a small sum of money in tax, you're not very well-versed in the human condition, which is also blitheringly obvious.

 

Okay, next better player, please.

 

 

[Nzy]

Pay first. Amount can discuss.

 

Bicycles are on roads as cockroaches are in the house - drivers don't like and should the roads as unwelcoming as possible, before infestation builds.

 

Why should cyclists pay when the space they take up is so insignificant as compared to a car? Even a small car would take up much more space than a bicycle would.

 

They take up alot lesser space than a car and do not have an engine to contribute to the pollution. Isn't the road tax all about the amount of pollution a car causes? That is why a bigger engined car has a higher road tax than a smaller engined car isn't it? That is why privately owned diesel cars had to pay a huge premium for the road tax over their petrol models cuz older diesel cars pollutes the environment even more than a petrol car right? So isn't it logical that a vehicle that doesn't produce any emissions pay $0 in road tax?

 

So why should a bicycle with zero emissions pay for the road tax which is essentially a pollution tax?

Edited July 23, 2012 by Nzy

[inlinesix]

I suppose you are refering to me, if yes, my nick is ScootS, not Scoot, and we both know I am definitely not any dear fren of yours, so why be sucha hypocrite?

 

I declined your many 'invitations' in the past because there were all challenges to points which:

1. I had already stated my poit

2. Which you could not disprove, but only play the "you won't know unless you ride ..." card

 

I have not been burnt before but I also did not have to play with fire to know that. There's a such a thing called common sense.

 

LikeI had mentiond before, I don't need to cycle to know how dangerous it is. If you chose to, go ahead. But that does not mean that cyclists are a special breed that deserves special treatment, neither does it mean that cyclists can come up with their own 'rules' of how they should behave on the roads which is common to all road users.

My apology for spelling ur nick incorrectly. I have no enemy here. Every1 is my dear friends.

 

My invitation to you remains open. It is up to you when u want to take it up. How do teach ur kid WHY not to play with fire?

 

Common Sense

 

[Elfenstar]

The pic I posted from Singstat already showed the ratio of cyclist accidents to vehicular accidents. Goods vans and pick-ups are involved in only slightly more accidents than cyclists year on year, and by your argument, that shouldn't happen because they do pay tax what.

 

If you think cylists would magically change their behaviour because they pay a small sum of money in tax, you're not very well-versed in the human condition, which is also blitheringly obvious.

 

Okay, next better player, please.

 

I don't mind paying tax since most likely I'll get my bike lanes, or bike highways, or lights that allow cyclists to go first, etc. However when Tonyng starts whinging like a girl (again) about how road space is reduced, blah blah, blah blah, I'll just laugh in his face and say "You asked for it!"

 

That being said if you look at his past postings regardless of if is cycling related or not, it is not unknown for him to come up with some really hairbrained ideas without understanding the rational behind how its done, and realising the implications of what would happen if such an idea was implemented. So please do be nice to him as I don't think he can help it

 

[Nzy]

I don't mind paying tax since most likely I'll get my bike lanes, or bike highways, or lights that allow cyclists to go first, etc. However when Tonyng starts whinging like a girl (again) about how road space is reduced, blah blah, blah blah, I'll just laugh in his face and say "You asked for it!"

 

That being said if you look at his past postings regardless of if is cycling related or not, it is not unknown for him to come up with some really hairbrained ideas without understanding the rational behind how its done, and realising the implications of what would happen if such an idea was implemented. So please do be nice to him as I don't think he can help it

 

Yep. I am sure many cyclists won't mind paying the tax if we are guaranteed to get bike lanes or boxes which are only for cyclists to stop in at the traffic lights. But how are they even going to implement it. So long as you own a bike you'll have to pay? Then there'll be many people complaining about how they rarely use their bikes or their bikes are for their children and used only in PCN. Even then I think the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists will still remain the same. Even motorcyclists are still being bullied/driven off the road by some drivers.

[Elfenstar]

Yep. I am sure many cyclists won't mind paying the tax if we are guaranteed to get bike lanes or boxes which are only for cyclists to stop in at the traffic lights. But how are they even going to implement it. So long as you own a bike you'll have to pay? Then there'll be many people complaining about how they rarely use their bikes or their bikes are for their children and used only in PCN. Even then I think the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists will still remain the same. Even motorcyclists are still being bullied/driven off the road by some drivers.

 

Implementation is a whole different issue. Near impossible I reckon, but hey, lets cater to Tonyng's fantasy and what it may mean

 

Anyway I don't know about your experiences, but in my experience most drivers are fine. One ah tiong, and one cabby were the bad ones, but I've had heaps more good ones like SBS buses pacing me when I'm reaching a junction so other vehicles can't overtake and cut me off to make a turn, the numerous motorists that give me lots of space while overtaking, the vehicles that stay behind me when approaching a junction even though they could overtake and turn without cutting me off, etc.

 

My take is that there will always be bad drivers, it can't be helped (like that something 85 bloke), but I do what I can to ensure my safety and not worry about things out of my control. Unless my extrapolation was way off, as the odds have it, I'm probably safer cycling than driving anyway

 

 

P.S. Anyway, nights all. Am off to bed as I'm going cycling early in the morning xD

Edited July 23, 2012 by Elfenstar

[Nzy]

Implementation is a whole different issue. Near impossible I reckon, but hey, lets cater to Tonyng's fantasy and what it may mean

 

Anyway I don't know about your experiences, but in my experience most drivers are fine. One ah tiong, and one cabby were the bad ones, but I've had heaps more good ones like SBS buses pacing me when I'm reaching a junction so other vehicles can't overtake and cut me off to make a turn, the numerous motorists that give me lots of space while overtaking, the vehicles that stay behind me when approaching a junction even though they could overtake and turn without cutting me off, etc.

 

My take is that there will always be bad drivers, it can't be helped (like that something 85 bloke), but I do what I can to ensure my safety and not worry about things out of my control. Unless my extrapolation was way off, as the odds have it, I'm probably safer cycling than driving anyway

 

My experience also not too bad. Only watch out for those who are tailgating other cars. Usually these are the ones who will overtake me very closely as well. Occasionally will encounter cars who will filter out even if I am approaching at quite a high speed. From the look on their faces I know they saw me, but then either they underestimated my speed or just don't care since I am a cyclist.

 

But there is one type of driver that I always meet everyday on the roads. When they stop and traffic lights and they know I am behind, I can see they purposely steer closer to the curb which I assume is so that I won't be able to move all the way to the front.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Nzy

[Trebuchet]

That being said if you look at his past postings regardless of if is cycling related or not, it is not unknown for him to come up with some really hairbrained ideas without understanding the rational behind how its done, and realising the implications of what would happen if such an idea was implemented. So please do be nice to him as I don't think he can help it

 

It's okay, I enjoy being a jackass here too. Anywya I can think of a few things for passionate readers of this thread to take away:

 

1. There will always be only so many cyclists on the road. The numbers will grow year on year but the humid weather and hectic pace of life here ensures that it will only be for semi-outliers. Cyclists should also understand that we will never be Copenhagen or Amsterdam.

 

2. That means there will never be bike lanes, no matter how much tax cyclists pay. And trust me, there's no chance ever of a bicycle tax. Not high on their priorities, as they say.

 

3. A tax on bikes will also mean that a larger percentage of people who get into cycling are those who can well afford a $10k bike. They will be fitter than you, richer than most of you, and better able to take your ass to court for legal damages in an accident, or take you out full-stop, if you get into a fight on the road. What this means is that cyclists will get not only more obnoxious, but more demanding of space on your roads.

 

These are already the kind of people who wear tights and ride in groups and block lanes. Put a tax on bikes and you can watch roid rage blossom before your eyes. It is a beautiful thing really.

 

 

4. If on the other hand, you check your blind spots like you are supposed to, you don't have to deal with congestion, roid rage or self-entitled hairy dudes who shave their legs.

 

If too lazy to turn your neck, install blind spot mirror, which I have.

 

Also do drive around cyclists carefully if they are slow, some of them are old, some of them may be sick, some of them may be poor but need to get somewhere for a job. They are not asking for handouts, merely consideration. If you are in a hurry, drive around them recklessly, I find it amusing to watch hirsute cyclists curse at me in my rear view mirror. But I am skilled enough to not be bothered by a cyclist. What is a cyclist when I have to drive around tipper trucks??

 

5. Think of your problem with cyclists as mere sawdust, and work on the planks in your own field of vision. Cyclists don't kill drivers, cyclists don't slow drivers down, other drivers do.

 

 

[Submarine]

Pay first. Amount can discuss.

 

Bicycles are on roads as cockroaches are in the house - drivers don't like and should the roads as unwelcoming as possible, before infestation builds.

 

 

 

Pardon me saying. If one fine day you lose your job for many months and got to lead a very fugal life and you got to save every penny and that including transportation, you will be one of those cockroaches.

[Taipan49]

I had a very enjoyable commute this morning without any interruptions. 20km from Bedok to Tanjong Pagar. Had a good laugh at all the people lining up in their cars to get into Tanjong Rhu from Fort Road causing a jam back onto the exit from ECP. That was the only area of conjestion and all due to parents wanting to drop their kids off directly in front of Dunman High School. They were all stationary in their jam, and I just cycled past . Still have the area from Marina Barrage to Shenton Way all to myself with wide comfy 2-3 lane roads.

 

Noticing more cyclists commuting the opposite way to Changi Biz Park. Good to see.

 

And cycling is becoming the new golf.

[Royho1979]

Does that include motorcyclist?

 

Whats wrong with you? Motorcyclist = cyclist?

 

Motorcyclist do that for leisure or can use cycling paths or pavements or travel at max 40km/h avg? I am holding myself back not to suan you leh...

[inlinesix]

Whats wrong with you? Motorcyclist = cyclist?

 

Motorcyclist do that for leisure or can use cycling paths or pavements or travel at max 40km/h avg? I am holding myself back not to suan you leh...

I find riding on the road is dangerous and stupid. I see no reason to put my life on the line. Dun take it personally, I just happen to be pragmatic and logical.