Why COE system is outdated??

[Timbuktu]

problem is, without COE the govt will eventually have to put up ERP gantries everywhere.

even just outside your car park.

Yes ... and funded by tax payers' money!

As in the curent NParks Brompton saga, its about using tax payers' money too.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Timbuktu

[Timbuktu]

Double posts.

10 characters l.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Timbuktu

[2012]

problem is, without COE the govt will eventually have to put up ERP gantries everywhere.

even just outside your car park.

 

how are you going to alter timing or reduce the frequency of your car use when there is going to be 24hr ERP plus 5 or 6 terminals for a single trip to the market?

 

 

ERP is good for protecting the traffic within a particular area

I think your idea of gantry at the car park exit is somewhat extreme, will it really happen in places where traffic is light?

 

Even if this really happens, I can still choose to drive within the time zones when ERP rates are not the highest. Don't forget ERP rate varies during different time of the day.

[Ungtiong]

After reading most of the comments..including my own...finally realised....the best solution is the simplest solution....COE. You want it...u pay for it. All the other solution are so complex and have so many loop holes. COE is the best of all the solutions. Its the best but its not good. There is no good solution. Its simply the best of the worst.

 

As with everything..big houses in exlusive areas..membership....exclusive clubs..including exotic cars...money is used to control the demand. I dont see any cheap club memberships but need to pay lots of money to use the facilities.

 

[Timbuktu]

The depth of thinking behind most of these suggestions really don't stand up to scrutiny. Entitlement mentality remains strong. Peasants' self-interest reflects our coolie and farmer backgrounds.

 

Consider the economic and commercial repercussions and the jigsaw will fall into place.

 

Car park lots supply: HDB season parking in core central areas will be raised in line with the land value. Orchard Road mall parking charges has been creeping up with each mall revamp. URA already changed the car park lots ratio for residential projects and only a matter of time before developers build more apartments and cut car park lots. Ballot for car park lot not too far away. Landed property owners will face strict tow-away regulations or expensive limited season parking lots outside their homes. CBD office buildings are being revamped with substantial reduction in parking lots available, and more space dedicated to mixed-use or residential units.

 

One-family-one-car: Too draconian, too administratively clunky to allocate and police.

 

COE bidding mechanism tweaks: A pay-as-u-bid can work, and a full deposit of the reserve price sends cash direct into LTA coffers and soaks up excess liquidity. Heavy cash outlay is painful to both richies and lower-incomers, and it acts as a direct luxury tax. Only reason LTA is waiting is to allow loans growth for banks. Once banks see more commercial loans then there will be reason to supress car loans.

 

Remove ERP and COE and only have very high road tax: No bank will loan on road tax because there is no collateral. We can get ten-year car loans because of the scrap paper rebates. (Side note: watch what happens when LTA cuts the rebate to 40% from 3rd year or earlier)

 

COE private vehicle categorisation by OMV, not engine capacity: LTA may move on this because the pressure will come from the korean and japanese brands. There is political pressure to keep the businesses afloat and paying taxes, maintaining employment and capital investment such as bigger workshops, showrooms, HQ status etc. LTA not going to move just because lower-income group feels entitled to personal transport.

 

Build more roads: Many new projects upcoming especially North-South Expressway. Triple-decker or tunnels for minor roads? Which MP want to deal with the health, noise, pollution, home value drop issues from affected residents? Future road widening will be for more full-day bus lanes and perhaps dedicated bicycle paths.

 

Raising ERP into CBD areas: Impending but will be slow because this affects inflation rate directly.

 

OPC scheme improvements: We could see more carrots here after the green car rebates kick in. If want to drive on weekends, may as well drive a hybrid or electric car and do your part towards a cleaner Singapore. But then you have to weigh against parking lot supply and cash outlay to bid for reduced number of COEs.

 

The writing is on the wall, and it's a game of survivor. Outbid, outpay, outlast.

Very well summarized indeed!

A distillation of most of what we've discussed, from all view points.

 

The thing about retaining HQ status ... the companies affected will likely lean on the EDB to influence LTA and the MoT to tweak the COE system. Losing already-acquired HQ statii will be a big thing for EDB!

 

[Timbuktu]

After reading most of the comments..including my own...finally realised....the best solution is the simplest solution....COE. You want it...u pay for it. All the other solution are so complex and have so many loop holes. COE is the best of all the solutions. Its the best but its not good. There is no good solution. Its simply the best of the worst.

 

As with everything..big houses in exlusive areas..membership....exclusive clubs..including exotic cars...money is used to control the demand. I dont see any cheap club memberships but need to pay lots of money to use the facilities.

+1

You said it man!

What I have also been trying to expound all along.

 

You only need to look at it from the outside, to see the obvious.

And I'm glad that the govt, MoT and LTA are doing the right thing.

 

If one is looking at things from the inside and focusing only on cheaper car ownership (THEIRS), then they can only come up with stoopid ideas to bend rules, restrict the richies, just to realize their selfish wants!

 

[Raymondism]

Get all the ministers to take public transport,give up their luxuary cars and drivers then the citizen will consider giving up driving..dont u think its fair when we give up our cars yet we Pay And Pay so they can have high salaries,high bouuses n everything either subsidise or paid for?? So do we work to Support THEM or Support our loved ones???

u very anti government hor....

[Moadia]

I just disagree with the policies THEY make which does not priortise the citizens but infact it favours the rich and THEIR Pockets..So are you in a comfortable position with the way THEY do things?

[Eng40765]

Pay to drive, otherwise road jam, no moeny dont drive. Dont expect preferential treatment cos this is how the world work. just in case you dont know.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Eng40765

[Rubbermat]

No money no drive. Why people just don't want to wake up from their dreams. Dreaming about government to help you get a car? Oh yes, just continue to dream on.

[Timbuktu]

I just disagree with the policies THEY make which does not priortise the citizens but infact it favours the rich and THEIR Pockets..So are you in a comfortable position with the way THEY do things?

Errr ... Whether rich, middle class, or not-rich - other than FT, FW and PR, we are ALL SG citizens here hor.

So COE and all policies are prioritized for citizens indeed.

It is just which end of the priority you belong to, how you view and react to them.

 

Those earning below a certain cutoff salary don't pay any income tax.

Those earning more than the defined cutoff salary don't get any Singapore share/dividends, year in, year out.

High income earners don't qualify means test for Class C wards at govt hospitals.

Household income above $10K cannot buy new HDB, even though you have just started to work & newly married.

High income earners' bright children do not qualify for academic bursaries, even though they are eligible and get letters of 'award' every year from the MoEducation.

And many many more policies that EXCLUDE the high-salaried citizens.

 

But do these group of citizens complain of unfair treatment like YOU do?

Edited August 4, 2012 by Timbuktu

[Gendut]

Again the evidence is clear.

 

COE as a tool to control road congestion simply does not work. In the long run the COE system is political suicide as eventually the cost of it will be stratospheric. Congestion as we speak continues unabated even with the current level of successful bids. Nobody in his right mind can conclude that by cutting COE quotas will reduce the congestion.

 

A more politically palatable solution is the gradual ramping up of gantry installations and consequently, ERP charges. At the same time plans should be laid up for the full and free issue of COEs.

 

Of course in due time everybody can afford a car and only the rich will use them on the roads as ERP costs will be prohibitive.

 

Businesses and economic activities will not be impacted as vehicles for commerce can be easily be given low ERP rates.

 

This will also make it appear that distribution of resources (in this case, ownership of cars) are evenly distributed to all classes of society.

 

There will be other issues like parking that will crop up. The policy has to be clear to car buyers that access to parking is not the govts responsibility. If you want to own a car, make sure you have a place to park.

 

Govt policies has to be clear. We do not need to control car ownership. But we must control road usage. The two are exclusive. They both require different sets of policies.

Build gantries everywhere and you see clear roads.

 

Cut down COE quotas and you will never see the end of congestion without more gantries. Things will get worse in the future and that is why the need to quickly roll out ERP gantries.

 

The system for satellite ERP is ready for implementation. Now we dont need any gantries for ERP. So why wait to do it? Is this govt starting to weaken at the knees?

 

Needles to say everybody wants clear road. We just have to pay for it.

[Check13]

I realized a shift in comments compared to 6-12 mths. The general feel that time was govt shd do something while now I see more of the well if u can't afford it don't buy it.

 

I see a lot of people whining abt high COE prices that time while now I see more whiners whining about those who whined about high COE prices.

 

It's very interesting indeed and somehow gave me the impression that this is because of the situation where those who wanted to buy a car should have already done so. And so the bragging and whining about those of whined begins.

 

Chances are we're at the peak already when you see such situations, very much like stocks. And so COE prices while unlikely to tumble is unlikely to surge very much either. Max I feel is 15-20k up/down for each category.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Check13

[Raymondism]

I just disagree with the policies THEY make which does not priortise the citizens but infact it favours the rich and THEIR Pockets..So are you in a comfortable position with the way THEY do things?

 

 

the idea of money already favours the rich... so shall we abolish the money system?

 

I may be happy abt one policy n maybe unhappy about another

I think u won't be able to find anyone who is 100% supportive of policies

 

whether I m in a comfortable position or not, doesn't justify trying to bash the government..

 

my advice is if you are here solely for the purpose of bashing them.... pls take it elsewhere...to other forums...

 

 

 

[Expertz]

Doesn't this sound like a cry baby?

people are already complaining about skyhigh COE prices, doesn't that sound like a cry baby too?

[inlinesix]

people are already complaining about skyhigh COE prices, doesn't that sound like a cry baby too?

Yes..........