Simi si "Chinese Helicopter"? Dialect lingua

[GoodCar]

I not teow chew, but when I was growing up, neighbour door all open one, so most kids can speak many dialect

[Wishcumstrue]

Mr Wishcumtrue is correct. No prizes though.

10 cent donation from old washerwoman in those days meant a lot.

 

 

The interesting aspect is that the Japanese has never really accepted the English language.

Even though they developed/changed much earlier as a civilization. And that they can claim to be the model of Asian industry. AM not so dk, Daikon bigger des sho.

 

The Chinese have the shameful shortcomings too, Mr Wishcumtrue.

 

Just stating a very important legacy of Singapore that is seldom explained in our contemporary history.

 

As you might have noticed, those donations coming from wide spectrum of Chinese community in Singapore was one of many early sign of anti-colonial movement. Interestingly, the building of the 1st Chinese-language university outside of China represents what education should be all about - free from gov influence and society support for education.

 

So I am not sure what you meant by 'Chinese have the shameful shortcomings" while at the same time waxing admiration on the Japanese system which has a language that is based on Chinese language.

 

 

 

from such wide spectrum from the Chinese community in the 1950s Singapore

It's all hokkian yeah? Where got diff dialects?

 

Just so we are clear Mandarin 华语 IS a dialect.

It's just the politics made it the official dialect of the nation.

Sama as Hindi.

The language of power.

 

 

Please don't mix Indian linguistic diversity with that of Chinese.

 

This is like saying Tamil and Hindi share the same written language .

 

 

[Datsun366]

Just stating a very important legacy of Singapore that is seldom explained in our contemporary history.

 

As you might have noticed, those donations coming from wide spectrum of Chinese community in Singapore was one of many early sign of anti-colonial movement. Interestingly, the building of the 1st Chinese-language university outside of China represents what education should be all about - free from gov influence and society support for education.

 

So I am not sure what you meant by 'Chinese have the shameful shortcomings" while at the same time waxing admiration on the Japanese system which has a language that is based on Chinese language.

 

 

 

from such wide spectrum from the Chinese community in the 1950s Singapore

 

 

Please don't mix Indian linguistic diversity with that of Chinese.

 

This is like saying Tamil and Hindi share the same written language .

Nantah represented a milestone for immigrant achievement.

I do not believe the founders intended for education to be independent from gov influence. They would be counter intuitive for achievers.

The very fact that society was included meant that anyone could contribute, yes, even the colonials.

The core, the result is that there exists a facility to educate, never mind what labels are put onto it.

When I walk the pathways in Nantah, there is a sense of awe unlike Kent ridge, the reason is obvious. Everyman and everywoman came together to help pool resources willingly. The schemers of the day could have intended it to be closet communism but it can just as easily be said to be an early example of crowd funding, a very bourgeois act.

 

Chinese history has been rife with dishonor and heinous acts. If we look at the 19th and 20th century history of China, the examples are there.

 

The Japanese were influenced by the Tang. I am unsure if the Tang would like to be associated with the 'Chinese' culture that we use today. The supposed heyday of Chinese cultural/ political achievement might not view latter day descendants kindly...

I like the Japanese for their self improvement spirit. The Meiji restoration, the post war reconstruction. Even though latter day propaganda portrays them as aggressors and criminals. That was a different day when people still subscribed to war in the crude form.

Nowadays the Zaibatsu, the chaebols are much more effective.

The is a Sony in everyhome. The cars on the road are by World war 2 aggressors.

How can anybody drive a car by people who built concentration camps / used comfort women?

 

Tamil and Hindi,

They are contrasting examples to what Chinese dialects became because of unified government.

 

How would the Chinese dialects or languages share the same written language.

The sound assigned to script, suspiciously the work of a unified scrupulous civil service. Hahahaha.

 

Mandarin is a lowly dialect that got elevated because the Manchurians built their Capitol at Beiping.

How would the Tang have spoken? We can only guess.

 

Cheers and have a nice day, Mr wishcumtrue and Mr Roadrunner.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Datsun366

[Wishcumstrue]

Nantah represented a milestone for immigrant achievement.

I do not believe the founders intended for education to be independent from gov influence. They would be counter intuitive for achievers.

The very fact that society was included meant that anyone could contribute, yes, even the colonials.

The core, the result is that there exists a facility to educate, never mind what labels are put onto it.

When I walk the pathways in Nantah, there is a sense of awe unlike Kent ridge, the reason is obvious. Everyman and everywoman came together to help pool resources willingly. The schemers of the day could have intended it to be closet communism but it can just as easily be said to be an early example of crowd funding, a very bourgeois act.

 

 

 

Indeed, establishment of Nantah itself epitomizes what is acheiveable with ONLY the support and desire from average people and non-gov communities, never mind the initial negative attitude and policy held by the colonial  gov…or its detractors who tried to frame the institution within the context of the Cold War.

 

End of the day, Nantah isn’t about being confined the reams of language or ideology, but a basic desire from the masses to have equal opportunities and access to education – that is what “Nantah Spirit” is about.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/let-the-nantah-spirit-and-name-live-on-in-ntu

 

 

 

Chinese history has been rife with dishonor and heinous acts. If we look at the 19th and 20th century history of China, the examples are there.

 

Without you giving explicit examples of those "dishonor and heinous acts" in the last 2 millenniums, one only guess you are referring to the fall of Qing dynasty, subsequent civil wars and the Cultural revolution?

I am curious what led you to define these as “heinous” when none of these events involved Chinese invading foreign soils, calculated genocidal holocaust act or use of modern weaponry on civilian population?

 

 

 

 

The Japanese were influenced by the Tang. I am unsure if the Tang would like to be associated with the 'Chinese' culture that we use today. The supposed heyday of Chinese cultural/ political achievement might not view latter day descendants kindly...

I like the Japanese for their self improvement spirit. The Meiji restoration, the post war reconstruction. Even though latter day propaganda portrays them as aggressors and criminals. That was a different day when people still subscribed to war in the crude form.

Nowadays the Zaibatsu, the chaebols are much more effective.

The is a Sony in everyhome. The cars on the road are by World war 2 aggressors.

How can anybody drive a car by people who built concentration camps / used comfort women?

 

 

Sony or "comfort women" aside, which in the later, is still widely regarded as a heinous act across today's Asia, I cannot help notice that you seems to be reading a different version of Asia Pacific that is much preferred by Japanese history school text today.

 

Japan in the last 200 years, unlike today, was in constant flux moving from one extreme to the next. The Meiji era is not exception after being forced open by western powers like much of Asia since the 1800s. So when you coined  the word "self improvement spirit", it is very much driven by western colonial conquest, much like the Nantah Spirit which I had alluded to.

 

Problem is, as I had mentioned, unlike the Chinese thinking, Japanese tend to swing from one extreme to another, copying and imitating western technologies and ideologies while unable to manage its own nationalism which ultimately lead them to militarism under the premise of Emperor worshipping and a belief that Japanese belong to  “superior” ones.

 

Was it worth it? Well, if you associate todays MIJ vehicles to their “World war 2 aggressions”, you might as well thank bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which forced Japan to reconsider its own destructive path since the Meiji restoration.

 

This narrative isn't some 'latter day propaganda ', but a factual history of Japan within the last 200 years.

 

 

 

Tamil and Hindi,

They are contrasting examples to what Chinese dialects became because of unified government.

 

How would the Chinese dialects or languages share the same written language.

The sound assigned to script, suspiciously the work of a unified scrupulous civil service. Hahahaha.

 

Mandarin is a lowly dialect that got elevated because the Manchurians built their Capitol at Beiping.

How would the Tang have spoken? We can only guess.

 

 

Thanks for confirming that Tamil and Hindi are essentially different languages originating form different cultures from a young country which is an accidental construct of western colonialism that started from 1600s.

 

In similar context, using your view that "Mandarin is a lowly dialect", then it had been beyond miracle for China to retain its civilsation and territorial integrity through much of its  recent history since the fall of Qing when China hardly had a "unified government" until 1949, regardless of what Chinese dialect was used by officialdom during the Tang Dynasty over 1400 years ago.

 

Now, let's get back to Singlish Story, shall we ? 

[EricChan]

wah lao , praise you by mistake . but cannot undo.

Chinese Helicopter Pilot:

To be at the critical point in masturbation, whereby your facial contortions and arm movements cause you to mimic the appearance of a chopper pilot from the Orient.

 

[Wishcumstrue]

This Singlish thread already merged by mods with the Dialect thread. 2 in 1.

 

Yes I am aware.

 

This merging seems odd to me since one is about recent controvery on "Chinese helicupter" being included in Oxford dick's Singlish list while another thread is more about Chinese dialect.

[Wishcumstrue]

Simplification and standardization is a process of modernization. It happened in the Japanese language too. To encourage literacy, reducing the dependency on Kanji to develop Hiragana and Katakana based on simplified Chinese characters. Japanese women historically only read Hiragana, and had no Kanji names. Uneducated peasants had no family names too.

 

Then later simplification of Kanji itself, and also the development of "Standard Japanese" or 国語 (no, this is not a mix of Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese, this is standard Japanese).

 

Language, like living organism, is organic. It has its root, origin and changes through time and place.

And similarly, language needs constant "nourishment” by daily use and practices. Without these, language will die a natural death.

 

If Japan had  replaced their langauge with, say English, during the Meiji restoration, they won’t be using Kanji today and Chinese-readers wouldn’t be able to understand most of Japan's sign boards.

[Datsun366]

Just for laughs, the Vietnamese word Cam, I would pronounce as 'Cham'. Cham here Cham there, so Cham.

 

Thank you for the learned discourse, we have differing viewpoints.

 

Of course no sane person would condone the acts perpetrated on the human beings.

Nagasaki, the cologne fire bombings, the battle for Britain...

 

Re: China

 

It is a disgrace Regarding the atrocities the government had visited on its own people. We should be familiar with Laksamana Cheng Ho. He was a Mongolian prince during the overthrow of the Mongols. Our great admiral was made an eunuch to serve the Ming. We would say that it is cruel and unusual punishment, not so in their day of course. If Cheng Ho (he was forced to give up his Mongolian name) was not intelligent to persuade for the water expansion, the Chinese people would have been poorer for it. Not to mention a certain lonely man who would marry a 'princess' from China.

It was terrible to be Chinese in China during the wane of the Manchus. If in depth research was made public, the resultant power factions that lead to this day can be traced to residual Manchurian/Han royalty versus the peasant born elite. China has to squat and fight for some rocks in the ironically named South China Sea with formerly servile vassal states is the result of gross mismanagement. So shameful, pretty sure the Tang emperors would have heads flying every which way. The Qinshihuang, he would have been trim and fit, as a fighting monarch versus the corpulence we see today. Even with my height and build, if the terra cotta soldier 1:1 'myth' is true, I would be a runty Qin soldier.

 

Re Japan

Conversely, the Japanese have not had a corpulent Prime minister since Nakasone. The Japanese made their share of mistakes and achievements. It is right to acknowledge that they had shown Asia that Asians boleh versus AMDK. AM so scared to fight them Mano a Mano that they had to use technology to overwhelm that indomitable spirit.

 

What I am looking is what the Japanese did right. As human beings, we know that the Chinese and every other social group since homo habilis must have committed atrocities.

 

Re India

From my outsider view, India is fascinating. Indians stopped Alexander cold, the army that crushed the Mighty Persian empire, dead in its tracks. You could see the map of Alexander's army pacing up and down the Indian border trying to find a way in and not succeeding at all. Fascinating.

 

I think the Indian diaspora happened due to neglect more than horrors committed by bad governance as opposed to the Chinese.

 

Still, what the Tang spoke, it's hard to figure out as no speaker of that era exists, approximations are still approximations. Trying to figure out the pronounciations would be trying to describe an elephant using only our hands in the dark. Hakka...diluted over time. Haha.

 

And I thinks, the Indian and Chinese handled the effects of colonial government better because of the strong and rich cultural heritage. There is more ' elbow' room to manipulate that other cultures.

And that colonial legacy led to Nantah, vis a vis people trying to live long and prosper.

People regardless of race, language or religion.

 

The stories about Nantah that only us locals would know.

[GoodCar]

Very Chim.......but very interesting reading.......I like:wub:

[Wishcumstrue]

Just for laughs, the Vietnamese word Cam, I would pronounce as 'Cham'. Cham here Cham there, so Cham.

 

Thank you for the learned discourse, we have differing viewpoints.

 

Of course no sane person would condone the acts perpetrated on the human beings.

Nagasaki, the cologne fire bombings, the battle for Britain...

 

Re: China

 

It is a disgrace Regarding the atrocities the government had visited on its own people. We should be familiar with Laksamana Cheng Ho. He was a Mongolian prince during the overthrow of the Mongols.

 

Huh ?  Zheng He a "Mongolian prince" - bro, are you sure ?

 

Also by your definitoin of "dishonor and heinous acts", you consider "Nagasaki, the cologne fire bombings, the battle for Britain..." inclusive ? So this title isn't exclusive for the Chinese. No ?

 

Clarify the above, and I'll give you my 0.01 yuan to the rest of your comment.

[mersaylee]

Very intriguing history lessons here...Keep it up folks.

 

I've only heard of zhenghe was eunuch since young, good military and nautical knowledge with 7 voyages...died in western part of India, a Muslim. Never heard of him ever a Mongolia prince.

[Wishcumstrue]

Very intriguing history lessons here...Keep it up folks.

 

I've only heard of zhenghe was eunuch since young, good military and nautical knowledge with 7 voyages...died in western part of India, a Muslim. Never heard of him ever a Mongolia prince.

 

Me intrigue by Datsun366 claim also. Don't know where he got his story from.

[Datsun366]

My apologies if the word Prince gave the wrong connotation of Emperor's child. I used it to meant that he was born into royalty, a blue blood.

I read it somewhere in Taiwan 国立大学。

Cheng ho/ Zhenghe ... People choose to see him in pieces. What is intriguing about him is that he is a survivor. He managed his emotions and used his abilities to construct a worldwide opus. He used his 'enemies' strength to get what he wanted. I am sure he was happy charging through the waves as he would riding a pony across the green undulating Mongolian steppes.

Whatever happened to his family after he was taken at age ten? Blink blink.

Chinese really hated the Mongolians.

 

For our non aware brothers, the pau,

Represents eating the traditional Mongolian abode with its residents intact, after cooking it of course. What would civilized folk do to show hatred and disgust, forever and ever. Akin to youtiao, deep frying supposed representation of evil folk who betrayed a great general and nation.

Mr wishcumtrue, wrong is wrong. Failure to protect against harm is a heinous crime in itself, duty of care and all that. Especially if accounted via the Confucian manner. Yes it is not unique to the Chinese but the spectacular failure of the Chinese in the last two hundred years, given its historical achievements, stand out in stark contrast. A classic textbook case of mismanagement, missed opportunities and general lack of diligence.

 

Make no mistake, I am not putting the Chinese down.

 

严以待己， 宽以待人。

 

And Cheng ho is Chinese isn't he?

By our definition now, yet imagine if you were him.

 

A captured, castrated Mongolian blue blood child,made to serve a group of people who were quite upset.

 

The legacy of colonialism? The rule of law and human rights.

[Wishcumstrue]

Me intrigue by Datsun366 claim also. Don't know where he got his story from.

 

Guess what?  Datsun366 latest version of "His"tory...has become less intrigue and smells more like fish every time I read.

 

Here's why:

 

• He claims Zhenghe is a Mongolian - In reality ZH ethnicity is Hui which is from south western province of Yunnan - a far far away land from the steppe of Mongolia.

• He claims to get his info from "Taiwan 国立大学" - when no such university exist. Closest is 国立台湾大学.

• He never fails to use simplified characters.  Rather odd considering he claims to read Taiwanese source, where  traditional characters are still in use.

• He sees "spectacular failure of the Chinese in the last two hundred years"  as a "heinous crime" by failing to protect against harm. Using this same argument, Datsun366 also directly imply that much of Asia are criminals themselves for having fail to "protect" against all sorts of exploits by western powers from Indian subcontinent, to the In-do-China region, across the Indonesian archipelago and up and down entire Islands of the Philippines.        Perhaps I should  include Singapore for committing "heinous crime" too from 1819 ?

 

 

Mr Datsun366 certainly has a way of expressing his thoughts in entertaining way, beyond which serve nothing more than to misinform. Short of calling him a troll, I must say he is a Story teller with unique way of writing.

 

That is just my 0.01 yuan.

[Maxus-MIFA9]

What to expect when history comes out from Taiwan which not in level term with China.

 

Same as in Japan where their history books never mention about their aggression into China and all the way down to Singapore..

[Datsun366]

hahaha.

 

Cheng ho is of Mongolian extraction. That is fact. He is of blue blood, royalty. That is fact.

I did befriend a Hui professor. That is a fact. What is Hui? What is Wikipedia?

 

How does the Taiwanese refer to said University, 国立大学。 That is fact.

Any scholar worth his salt might know that the moving company was most thorough during 1949.

Using a different script because this is what technology affords me. That is fact.

 

What the Chinese did to a ten year old boy named Cheng ho is a fact.

What the Chinese did to other children at that time period is a fact.

Not all the Chinese are horrible, that is a fact.

 

When we do something wrong, please do not cover it up. That is fact.

It comes back and bites us rather vigorously, maybe four hundred years down the road.

 

Still, Cheng Ho raised a interesting question of what might have been, what could have been. Especially with what horrors and deprivations he had to go through.

To continue the conquests of Kublai khan, albeit in the service of the great lord, the master of Ming.

To be lord in his domain (great ship building and planning), the master and commander at sea.

 

A great example of survival and prospering through adversity.

 

Oh yes, have a nice day.

 

I don't really eat pau much after our primary school teacher taught us what that food meant. It was also the first time, we realize that food could be used as a media of expression. And that the Mongolians must have made the Chinese people extremely upset.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Datsun366

[Wishcumstrue]

This has been reported in Zaobao.   So far none of the English-language MSM mentioned this on-going petition.

 

 

VOTE: Petitions to have a derogatory term removed from the Oxford English Dictionary.

There is nothing wrong being Chinese educated. It is absolutely wrong to make fun of them."

- Chui Yng Ho , Singapore, Singapore

 

https://www.change.org/p/singaporeans-get-petitions-to-have-a-derogatory-term-removed-from-the-oxford-english-dictionary-87408ff4-ef43-4a7a-bb18-85cbd036ddfe

 

 

Zaobao 26 May 2016 - 华校生要求牛津词典删除 “Chinese helicopter”

 

吴明珠也是本地作家、文化奖得主英培安的妻子。她通过电邮答复《联合早报》询问时指出，发起请愿行动的目的，是希望能让更多公众关注这起事件。

吴明珠指出，“Chinese helicopter”带有“侮辱意味”，用意是取笑早期的华校生。她认为词汇“登不了大雅之堂，没想到竟被收入字典”。她说：“我最担心的是我们年轻的新加坡人看到字典里有这个名词，会以为可以这样称呼华校生，太过分了。”

 

http://www.zaobao.com.sg/social/mix/story20160526-621321

 

   

 

 

[mersaylee]

吴明珠, 好样的。赞!