Magic Jet

[Kytl68]

It's a real pity your maths teacher has taught you how to indirectly apply your maths but no one else taught you more about human greed and ego.

 

You see the more power you have the more you will step on you accelerator since you always think you can outrun anyone ..... isn't that so ?

 

Almost everyone already using synthetic oil when they collect their car from day one, so does that means you have gain in HP from day one or the car is suppose to produce the amount of HP ? I think it's a case of losing HP when using normal oil rather than gain in HP using synthetic oil ..... is your cup half full or half empty?

 

What ride are you having ? From your avatar and footer, is it a Chevy ? I heard it drinks alot of petrol .... so maybe this magic jet or other "snake oil" can help chevy users ..... or maybe it's beyond hope. By the way interesting footer note but maybe you would like to add to it ... don't take the brain if there's any ... but the heart is ok .... reckless people have a brave heart but are mostly no brainers !!!!!!

 

I think most of the enhancement product should be under your list of snake oil since your theory is unless proven it's only reports .... how many add on dealer do you know that carries out test in front of big audience ? Isn't most of it just testimonials in the web site or in magazines ?

Edited February 26, 2005 by Kytl68

[Genie47]

Well, outrunning is not the objective. The objective is to cheaply get more and no, it is not synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is very expensive. What I have stated is the viscosity of the oil, 5W20. There are such things as mineral 5W20 oil. So all those people who used synthetic oil from day one got only a piece of the cake. Furthermore, gains in performance may not be in their agenda.

 

Read carefully. Learning to listen is more powerful tool than yakking away w/o listening first.

 

As for the testimonials part. Well, I like to use this from CSI: Focus on what cannot lie......the evidence.

[Kytl68]

It is pretty interesting to know that mineral oil can actually improve horsepower .... can you recommend me any reports made by some reliable and funded organisation or an blind test on this ?

 

I think I will switch to mineral oil now and safe on money and have better HP .... thanks bro ... let me try it out.

But I thought if you are using 5W20 it will be unsuitable for our climate as the oil losses viscosity at higher temperature ... shouldn't we be using about 5W40 ?

 

I like CSI too .... nice quote from there ...... but X Files also says the truth is out there ....

[Genie47]

NASCAR racers use 5wt oil for qualifying. Only for qualifying so it already tells you how much more horsepower it will release. Silkolene did a study on the relationship between oil viscosity and horsepower. Oil drag frictional losses are 6%. Explains why I know the value of horsepower gained from just a change from 50wt to 20wt.

 

Now here is the part why only qualifying. 5wt oil will be shear to water first then muck in all those laps. So for severe usage, thin oils cannot do well.

 

Americans like 30wt because they like the protection and fuel economy offered.

 

Australians like 50wt because they experience hot summers and do a lot of towing (if you been to Australia, you will know).

 

Europeans like 40wt because they drive very fast on autobahns.

 

Places experiencing winter like 0W oil because of cold startups.

 

So where does that 20wt come in? Recently, Americans owning Ford, Mazda and Honda engined cars take to 20wt because these manufacturers did studies and found that this wt is the most ideal for fuel economy. Ask some Stream owners here and they will tell you how good it is to be in 5W20 oil.

 

So how do you know if you can use 20wt oil? Actually any car that calls for 5W30 as its lowest grade oil can use a 5W20. But then there are other factors. If you do a lot of towing, don't. Loading up with passengers don't count. If you do tracking, don't. If you travel very fast on the NSH up to 150-160kph with the engine screaming at 4-5k RPM, don't.

 

However, there are situations when a 20wt is best like very short trips.

[Kytl68]

Thanks, that's very informative. But I still don't see how we can use 5W20 here in our climate and also our driving condition (so many start stops) ... are you using 5W20 ?

 

Don't think I will try it ... don't want to risk my engine dying too young. I do carry a full load every weekend in my car (3 tier family), I drive up the NSH at least once every month (although I don't need 4-5K to hit 150km/h about 3-3.5K will do) I will stick to my 5W40 for now.

[Apollo]

actually bobtheoilguy is the best site to look at Used Oil Analysis (UOA) for all sorta results fr all over, including singapore.

 

engine oil is probably the most validated product for cars.

[Hattee]

Correct those who refuse to know the truth are arrogant. Scientists have never stop trying and they know they are still far from undertanding everything. How do you compare some of us here with them who have gone beyond the need of trying - is it arrogance or ignorance?

 

Actually, those who don't want to know the truth are the arrogant ones. The point is that true enhancements costs so much that the snake oil alternatives (if they can be considered alternatives at all) are just merely con jobs. In the end, saving that money used for the snake oil for real petroleum products is more viable.

 

The numbers quoted by him is proof that it takes a lot to make 65 horsepower. What numbers do the Magic Jet makers/users have to show besides testimonials? S$70 to produce 4 nanowatt of power ooops, let me revise that 4 attowatts of power?

 

I like him would advocate using the services offered by the automobile engineers in designing that hunk of depreciating piece of machinery if big ticket performance items are not your thing. It is not perfect but it gets you where want to go.

 

PS. Nano is 10 the power of -9. Atto is 10 the power of -15.

[Genie47]

There is a similarity between scientists and those who spent money on big ticket items on automobiles. Funding. You got to admit it. Scientists work only with funding, they keep trying because of funding. So are you saying that scientists are also arrogant? They get money not because of what they don't understand, they get money because of what they do understand already.

 

Those who went beyond the need for trying are not trying at all. They did it. I will use this quote from Master Yoda: Do or do not, there is no try.

 

Magic Jet will fail because of feeble trying. Big ticket items will succeed because there is a committment to succeed.

 

There lies the difference between the "arrogant" and the "failed and conned". Committment. A Magic Jet buyer is always lured in with this tack "buy first, don't work, return it." Doesn't that already show the mentality of the person already? One who only has faith the product, faith to fail and so safe, I hardly call it faith at all! Whereas the "arrogant" hardcore tuner set out in mind what to achieve with detailed plans of how to achieve it. A sure recipe for success.

[Kytl68]

I think maybe magic jet could also be something that is funded and research upon by some smart people somewhere out there (some say in China, Taiwan or USA) ... that's my guess though.

 

For all you know it's just like the Z-stab guy who did some own research, tried it out on his car, get a few friends to also try it and then if it works try to market it. When they started out, many people felt it was a scam also but today people are willing to market the product for them worldwide .... one hell of a success story if you can sell a few thousand sets

 

Whether magic jet will succeed or not, only time will tell. The people in this forum are not the only people driving in Singapore so our opinion does not mean anything but maybe (just maybe) could play a small part in it.

 

A year or so down the road maybe they will stop bringing in Magic jet to Singapore cos nobody wants something that does not work or they will be distributed more widely cos more people are finding it useful ... we shall see.

 

I also believe why new players in the car add-on market has the "money back guarantee" clause is for them to penetrate the market as there are so many competitors in the same market. It's a good thing for people like me though since I don't mind trying new stuff to see if it works on not (knowing at the end of the day if it doesn't I can still return it back). I am sure nobody wants to keep something that doesn't work and same too nobody will return something that does. So the maker mist be confident enough to add this clause, otherwise they will have a whole warehouse of used stuff at the end of the day

[Genie47]

Actually whatever product you have should be tested on the market by blind tests and also reviewed by your peers of reputable standing. It is not just as simple as doing your own research and marketing it stating the said scientifically benefits of your own research.

 

Z-Stab is a great marketing success.

 

As for the money back guarantee, this is marketting. I would say that they would rely more on the martketting to survive. But to survive the scrutiny of performance oriented modders is much harder.

 

Magic Jet will continue to sell. MotoRup Extreme still sells here in 2005 while it is shunned in the US since 2001. We don't have laws to protect the consumer here which explains why these snake oils still thrive.

 

As for nobody willing to keep something that doesn't work, I think there are many. They would rather keep it than to join the league of conmen selling off a product that doesn't work to an unsuspecting buyer. Maybe keeping them as a reminder of their foolishness. Such is the case of Jamesgetz's relative.

[Hattee]

So much words here but avoiding the word "try".

 

Actually, those who don't want to know the truth are the arrogant ones. The point is that true enhancements costs so much that the snake oil alternatives (if they can be considered alternatives at all) are just merely con jobs. In the end, saving that money used for the snake oil for real petroleum products is more viable.

 

The numbers quoted by him is proof that it takes a lot to make 65 horsepower. What numbers do the Magic Jet makers/users have to show besides testimonials? S$70 to produce 4 nanowatt of power ooops, let me revise that 4 attowatts of power?

 

I like him would advocate using the services offered by the automobile engineers in designing that hunk of depreciating piece of machinery if big ticket performance items are not your thing. It is not perfect but it gets you where want to go.

 

PS. Nano is 10 the power of -9. Atto is 10 the power of -15.

[Hattee]

Said enuff. Got to hope you got it right.

[Genie47]

Yes. Avoid TRY. Avoid DO if don't have funding.

[Kytl68]

Making a mistake is easy ... it's learning from the mistake that is difficult.

 

In Singapore, if you try to sell a product that is really no good at all, it will be gone before you know it. There are only so many cars here.

 

MotorUp stills sells here becos some people still swear by it. I also find that it works to protect the engine, give a quieter ride ... nothing more. So it depends on what you use it for. Maybe in American, they expect too much for so little so that is why it will not sell.

Edited February 28, 2005 by Kytl68

[Kytl68]

Maybe it's a case of "no venture no gain, no guts no glory" for the people at Magic jet.

 

Let's hope we will learn to enjoy each other's comments .... no heart feelings.

 

I always believe "Live till old, learn till old"

[Cheeze]

I read with interest on this thread not because I am interested in Magic Jet or have anything against it but rather, because of the way the direction of this thread is taking. What I have to say is, of course, my own HO and any of you might disagree with me. It is perfectly fine with me.

 

Upon reading post after post in this thread, it became pretty appalling with the direction that this discussion is heading. What started (to me) as a relatively harmless post by a fellow bro to share his experience on this "device" have turn out to be quite a roller coaster ride.

 

True, personally I take such devices with a pinch of salt but I have never and will never go to the extend of saying other people as "morons", to be specific let me quote "yeah u can take this as an insult, but heck do i hv to entertain morons".

 

Also, there is another post citing the various upgrades that one can do to increase the hp of a car, together with the price tag of doing such mods. I'm perfectly fine with that to state the point clearly that no upgrades come cheap. But, sensitivity must be exercised! There are reasons why some ppl do not want to broadcast the amount they spend on the car(think PM), all which leads to sensitivity! When I first read the particular post, my first impression was that this person is such a "show-off". It is only through subsequent reads that I realise what this author was trying to say, and I do agree on his point that "good mods don't come cheap"

 

Snake oil or not, I guess it is up to each and every individual to decide for him/her self, this is an open world, every one can have their own beliefs(why do u think forums was created for? ), you can question such believes or question the true intent of the person, but you should never make personal attacks or throw insults at each other.

 

We live in a free world together. We must respect each other. It's the only way to make this place more pleasant to live in.

 

Cheers.

[Genie47]

Paying for your mistake is very hard. Best is to avoid a mistake. Why learn yourself when you can learn from others mistakes? Just like Darwinism, those who got eaten by lions are "sacrificed" to keep the lions stomachs filled so that those not eaten can carry on with life.

[Genie47]

I think it is more of "stay out of the fringes of the herd" because the lions are in the outside. If you want to be there, be sure you can run fast.