My CNG conversion

[Acemundo]

so for those that do they conversion to cng after the car has been registered don't get any rebates.

 

by the way, does japan or europe has the CNG models of car? how come we do not see PI or anyone offering the CNG version?

[Tohto]

In Europe, diesel is more popular than petrol. In Japn, taxi are run in CNG. I think Japan are more focus on hybrid.

[Acemundo]

i will just say in singapore, hybrid doesn't give you the bang for the buck.....

 

omv of the car is significantly higher, with the arf system amplifying the omv difference 2.4times, it would probably make it very difficult to earn back the price difference in terms of petrol savings unless one's pte passenger car mileage is that high like that of a taxi. another scenario is that this car owner keeps the car for full 10 years which is also very rare in singapore.

 

LTA also frowns on diesel, no matter how research has attested to the clealiness of the euro IV complied diesel engines in europe.

 

So seems like the only other viable option is CNG.

[Perrier]

Yup. No rebate whatsoever, maybe a little "discount" on road tax.

 

But then, road tax should not be related to green coz hybrid cars still uses the road like normal car unlike OPC.

 

I am just hoping that for those who bought the Honda and Toyota hybrid know what is ahead when they sell their car. It would be really sad if the owners end up like those who kanna the $101 COE....

[Acemundo]

yep..i don't mind. basically i don't really think we should rely on handouts from LTA to buy car.

 

on the other hand, but if the LTA plans their incentives in such a way they really promote green cars, i will still buy green cars. the current way i look at it is they are not doing enough. the little green rebate from buying hybrid cars cannot compensate the loss they incurr from selling a car with such high omv.

 

like i say, whatever omv difference gets amplied 2.4 times. if we use paper value as an indication (which is a fair indication given that hybrid cars are still unpopular so they are probably trading in 2nd hand market close to paper value) for resale, the omv is left 0.975times during year 1-5 and 0.55times by year 10. so the seller typically loses 1.5 - 1.9times omv for such cars. if the omv is 40k, it will lose 60k-76k......quite discouraging for a buyer of hybrid car.

 

the LTA has got to understand that the ARF ruling of 2.4times is already not a theoretically perfect model even for normal cars. they should not impose it to green cars with the same brush of the pen.

[Perrier]

So up front, one "saves" 40% on ARF,

but lose 30$ on the scrap value at the 5th year mark

or lose 20% on the scrap value if drive to the 10th year mark.

 

The point is whether the saving is passed back to the consumers who bought their high-tech electric hybrid cars?

 

Will relate my example,

 

I went to H** Y*** recently with my bro who is interested in getting the RSZ. My bro like all is worried about the warranty issue. HY told my bro no problem with warranty but must do the conversion with them. The car price will remain the same within CNG installation.

 

Well, after all the bullsh*t by the person, we left the showroom at AML. That person sure has an earful when she tried to call my bro if he is still interested in the RSZ. I just hope they dun treat customers like Roberts and more importantly has good product knowledge.

[Perrier]

I won't call "left hand out right hand in" a rebate.

 

There will be plenty of bullsh*t when they wanna sell any idea, same thing with annuity. Changing the name won't change the concept.

 

This is what I call propaganda (not referring to TS but article he post),

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/forum/More_drive...171740/#2171740

[EventH]

I kenna the same deal also ... "free" conversion at the same price ... at least mine offered to use (rebate - cng conversion) for immediate COE + leather seats + other stuff.

 

Still not worth it in my opinion. Best would be to reduce the selling price by (rebate - cng conversion).

[Genie47]

The Europeans a lot of bifuel models. FIAT, Ford, Opel, Renault and Volvo have bifuel models. They use Teledyne delivery systems.

 

Only Honda has the 100% CNG powered Civic GX. No bifuels from the Japanese.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Genie47

[Genie47]

I don't want to see the gahment give out freebies for green cars.

 

The reason is when they do that, they are maneuvering in position for control. I don't want control. I want market supply and demand dynamics.

[Acemundo]

wow, then can some good souls bring in the CNG power Civic to singapore?

 

yeah, the rebates given by sg govt is usually with their own agenda.

[Genie47]

I would say the best is for people to see the merits of conversion in the environmental standpoint and not so much of the rebates.

 

I see it from the running cost viewpoint. I'm keeping my car till the COE expires.

[Genie47]

If the infrastructure supports it. In the US, the Civic GX fills up with a filler in the garage tapping off from the domestic CNG supply.

[Acemundo]

hehe..lest u mistake me, i am also environmentally conscientious..

 

but what I am saying is that, to persuade average people who are not yet embracing the green movement, the govt gotta change their silly arf scheme for such cars.......otherwise, in view of the economics, these ppple won't buy green cars.

[Genie47]

Then the economics must come from the running cost. Just increase the petrotax.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Genie47

[Acemundo]

clearly it doesn't come from economics for the average people, at least where the hybrids are concerned. most people's mileage ain't that high or don't hold the car more than 3 years.....the economics also don't support the buying habits and usage patterns.

 

 

as for the CNG converts, the economics may be there.

[Perrier]

Agree with you.

 

Today, running cost and ROI are priority when converting to CNG.

 

Environmental aspect, sadly, can only be considered as a bonus on top of the two above mentioned points.

 

Actually the government has already taken measures so that peasants will hold their ride longer, etc $0 driveaway, reduction of ARF (preceived cheaper car). However, the habits are hard to kick as you will see in sgcarmart that many cars are tenderly young.

 

To add to my above posts, based on the explained rebate, the only confirmed positive point of CNG is the environmental friendliness. Saving has to come from long term ownership or high mileague during the ownership.

[Acemundo]

not that i don't agree, but i find it is too deep set in our system to change car within a few years that it is not easy to encourage people to keep the car longer. plus the effort our govt is putting in is quite miserable.

 

have you ever wondered why singaporeans tends to use 3 year and 5 year as the yard stick to change car whereas vehicle owners in other parts of world behave differently? it doesn't happen out of thin air. It is strongly link to the way we priced our ARF, PARF, stagger the paper value etc.

 

for the CNG, it appears that conversion cost are reasonable........so to make back the cost of the conversion from savings in fuel cost, it is still possible. Hybrids cost much more but yet are worth so little in our car registration system that it will be very difficult to encourage people to use hybrids.