Grounding kit

[Best_ctzn]

Hi, Appollo. Your answer speaks for itself. You are just ignorant and trying to squeeze juice out of kacang puteh. I think your kacang puteh man talk very tua kang leh?! This kind of person normally just talk no action lah. Or is he just a figment of your imagination?

 

I mentioned doing grounding good to have some basic electrical knowledge, nvr say need a PHD holder. But of course if the person has it better lah. But most probably he is too busy earning big bucks to dirty his hand. But then those who are very free got talk only no action leh, so how? Let the workshop continue to sell their grounding kits lah.

 

I think my 2cts will stop here. Wait later vomit blood. Have a nice day.

[Apollo]

ok lah... now u got say 5 point grounding, some help and some dun help. so not true it is not useful also.

 

biggest dead wt is body fat...

 

why bother abt grounding kit adding more wt. which hardly it is.

[Apollo]

HI me the Apollo not App-ollo or the Apoloo-oo.

 

Like i say, that one is kachang puteh man say one. Kachang puteh case. not so cheem got testing here testing there. which workshop got install groundkits liao do megger testing u tell me, i go take pigture.

[Ea_falcon]

Hi all, just my $0.02(incl GST) input on this matter.

 

FACT : Electricity tends to take the path of least RESISTANCE (not distance).

FACT : If you have 2 different resistors in parallel between pt A and B, the net resistance seen between pt A and B is lower than the lower resistor.

(Formula is 1/Rtotal = 1/(1/R1 + 1/R2)

 

FACT : Different metals have different resistance to electricity. GOLD is the best conductor, then silver followed by copper. Steel/iron is not a vey good conductor.

 

FACT : Cross-sectional area of the conductor also affects the resistance. The bigger the cross-sectional area, the smaller the resistance. This is especially true for high current.

 

Fact : Wire resistance can and does increase over time due to oxidation, aging, bends/kinks etc.

 

FACT : Car manufacturers are not going to give you the best possible/ideal cables and grounding. They have a bottom-line to protect and also to keep the car as light as possible.

 

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[Apollo]

speak like a pro

 

swee

 

[Sleepgod]

To me, good grounding has to be tailor-made for individual car make. Efforts have to be made to study the current stock grounding setup, then testing has to be done to the common grounding points to confirm improvements or not. This kind of grounding-kit then I will buy.

 

I agree completely...

 

For grounding kit, it is important to allow someone knowledgeable enough (no necessary Electrical Engineers...) to wire up my engine bay. Also I think that workmanship is very important. Cutting the cables into exact length and not having excess cables lying around untidyly.

 

Two important aspects that I look out for when getting the cables are the cable diameter (i will look out for fatass ones) and gold plated connectors. Unfortunately, brands like Pivot are really overpriced and the cable diameter looks like a drinking straw.

 

Its true that manufacturers are not going to give you the best possible/ideal cables and grounding. If we add ICE or other Electronics in our ride, the stock grounding is not enough for sure.

 

Just a matter of interest, Gim_Ong, you might like to know that our Subaru ride needs 3 main grounding points. Oh yeh... just in case you want to reply me... dont call me Sir... I'm not knighted yet or anywhere near a Datuk..

Edited August 8, 2007 by Sleepgod

[Sleepgod]

If you look at your Engine Electrical wiring carefully , a stock vehicle is pretty much well grounded.

 

True... but i think its not good enough yet.

 

These days...Engine blocks are mainly made from cast aluminum alloy (not 100% based iron blocks). The use of alloys helps to reduce the heat and weight of engines. Hence, they are not ideal conductors.

 

The principle of drawing good conducting cables from key components and points from the car direct to the negative would improve the closed circuit properties of the vehicle electronics. This takes the strain off the engine as a conductor. Therefore, I believe in installing good grounding cables... but at necessary points only.

[Raycsk]

Just some research I did some years ago which I am trying to recall... just like to share.

 

Engine Electrical Layout

+ve connection = Battery - fuse box which steps down the amphere - various electrical components

-ve conntection = electrical component - either its body grounded to its mounting surface or to chassis/ body - battery

 

Most Engine blocks today are made from cast aluminum alloy. The futher will see an increased use of Magnesium due to is superior properties of strength and lightweight realtive to aluminum.

 

Chasis and bodies are made from steel in various forms such as cold rolled steel for body panels to heavy case steel for the chassis & frame.

 

Here are some electrical resistivity figures I got from my research

Material Conductivity (%IACS)

Pure Aluminum (AL) 61.00

AL Alloy 29.10 - 64.50

AL Alloy Cast 21.00 - 41.00

Magnesium Pure Cast 38.60

Steel various grades 2.21 - 2.51

Copper Alloy 85.00 - 101.00

Copper Pure 100.00

 

For the benefit of those you are considering, let me explain the fundamental principle.

 

Cars run on a 12V DC electircial system. The live is positive (indicated by red wires or wires with red markings) and negative (earth denoted by black wires). The entire car body is one giant negative conductor for the battery. Most electrics like the lights, radio, etc... are grounded to the bodywork or the engine block. which in turn is wired to the battery by one cable from the body. A typical engine bay about 3 cables from the body from the engine block: alternator, main engine block near rocket/valve assembly block, near the transmission (esp for auto models). But it does vary from engine model to engine model.

 

Today's engines have a number of components driven by electricity with grounding to the engine block and body.

 

Take this test. wire up a simple light system with a DC battery, bulb and wires. Take one of the wires and use a large metallic object as a go between from battery to bulb. Based on the metallic conductivity of the metal, the light intensity will vary.

 

Most cars today do not use cast or 100% iron based engine blocks. Alloys used today reduce the heat and weight of engines. Hence, they are not ideal conductors. The principle of drawing good conducting cables from key components and points from the car direct to the negative would improve the closed circuit properties of the vehicle electrics. This takes the strain off the engine as a conductor.

 

Here are some electrical resistivity figures I got from my research

Material Conductivity (%IACS)

Pure Aluminum (AL) 61.00

AL Alloy 29.10 - 64.50

AL Alloy Cast 21.00 - 41.00

Magnesium Pure Cast 38.60

Steel various grades 2.21 - 2.51

Copper Alloy 85.00 - 101.00

Copper Pure 100.00

 

If wired correctly the electronic sensors will perform optimally resulting in better engine efficiency and responsiveness.

 

Many often get confused and claim that they get better power and fuel efficiency. In fact smoother acceleration make you likely to ease off the gas pedal - fuel efficiency. Smoother gear changes give people the impression that its better power.

 

MYTH 1: Audio power cables cannot be used. Due to its ability to give quality speaker performance, such cables are ideal due to their conductivity. In fact alot of aftermarket audio are currently using 8 AWG to connect directly to the +ve. I recommend that the -ve of the amp be connected to the corresponding manner to avoid frequency interference as well.

 

MYTH 2: Thicker is better. 2 cables with the same conductivity will not mean that the thicker one is better conductor. Remember we're talking about 12Volts DC here and the current at the negative will hardly be a high amphere.

 

MYTH 3: The points are same for any model and make. Just take a look a sensor, say the one at the inlet manifold. Some have 3 wires whilst car models have as many as wires. So electrical layout and configuration is an important consideration when locating points to direct back to negative

 

 

NOTE :

1. Use cable that have good thermal insulation covering as an engine bay can get as hot as 110DegC on a hot day in a traffic jam. Melting insulation may start a fire especially if you have a leaking fuel or fumes somewhere.

2. Secure all cables. The last thing you want is a dangling cable to entangle stuff in the engine. Or worse, rub against any live wires and get a electrical short-circuit that may lead to an electrical fire.

 

This technically should not void your warranty but I strongly suggest you check with your agent before use.

[Apollo]

fwah... another 3 more 卧虎藏龙

 

 

no one say alternator will spoilt..

[Ea_falcon]

There's some errors in there...

 

Engine Electrical Layout

+ve connection = Battery - fuse box which steps down the amphere - various electrical components

 

The fuse box does not step down anything. A fuse works by preventing the ampere(A)/current from exceeding a certain limit by melting to open the circuit.

 

MYTH 1: Audio power cables cannot be used. Due to its ability to give quality speaker performance, such cables are ideal due to their conductivity. In fact alot of aftermarket audio are currently using 8 AWG to connect directly to the +ve. I recommend that the -ve of the amp be connected to the corresponding manner to avoid frequency interference as well.

 

The reason audio power cables cannot be used in the engine bay is due to the heat. The insulation of audio cables are not designed to resist such high ambient temperatures, and also the oils and chemicals present in the engine bay that may get onto it.

 

MYTH 2: Thicker is better. 2 cables with the same conductivity will not mean that the thicker one is better conductor. Remember we're talking about 12Volts DC here and the current at the negative will hardly be a high amphere.

 

Not necessarily true. Current in any part of a closed circuit is always the same. Low voltage does not necessarily mean low current. Example is your starter motor. It is drawing 12Volts, but the current in very high, easily more than 40Amps. And as in my previous posting, thicker wires provide less resistance for higher current flow. Of course, if you are talking about sensors, then yes, the current required is very low.

 

1. Use cable that have good thermal insulation covering as an engine bay can get as hot as 110DegC on a hot day in a traffic jam. Melting insulation may start a fire especially if you have a leaking fuel or fumes somewhere.

 

Erm, this should be : Use electrical cable with insulation designed to withstand a minimum of 110DegC and which is chemically resistant to automotive oils and chemicals. Also ensure the cable is of a sufficient AWG to carry the current.

[Sleepgod]

are u aka ...rc forrester? glad to know you are here bro!

[Wolverman]

Where can i get good grounding kit?

 

any recommendation? on the model and location to buy?

 

 

why not DIY...get thick heat resistant copper cable and some wire crimps and connectors .... can custom your grounding ... but it is really helpful to do grounding ...

[Cavver]

Anybody tried adding capacitor to reduced power lost ???

[Apollo]

u need to consider how to deal with power surge. adding capacitors is like power bank, upgrading 16V engine to 24V to gain smooth throttle prima facie but each cap contain fair bit of voltage and tat can damage parts if there r spikes

Edited August 8, 2007 by Apollo

[Elfenstar]

Your idea of ground loops is correct except that there is one difference between most electrical systems and an automotive system. In an auto system the entire chassis and frame is the ground wire and only one thin wire that runs to the battery (I have never understood why auto manufacturers do this as using a good thick wire wouldn't cost them much more...).

 

Since a ground loop requires more than one connection between two pieces of equipment doesnt it mean that there isn't a duplicate as grounding kits only have one wire to the battery anyway (all other cable are grounded to the chassis)???

 

Basically what i'm saying is that it should be multiple thinner wires branching out of a thicker wire from a fixed point but OEM systems generally mean lots of thin wires are connected to a thick "wire" which is linked to the battery via another thin wire, and the only effect of using a grounding kit would be similar to shortening an excessivly long wire as well as ensuring that the main wire from which all the other are joined to is short enough, or at least that is what i've been taught by an auto-engineer.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Elfenstar

[Elfenstar]

Thats the best idea. Its a lil cheaper, and it ensures that the wires are as short as possible or can be routed in an unobstructive way... but i swear.... crimping the connectors on is a b|atch!!!!

Edited August 8, 2007 by Elfenstar

[Elfenstar]

Dear Sir,

 

A good mechanic can Strip anything to bolts and nuts and put it back.

 

Gone were the days that such mechanics is around. Or I should say CAR Repair god.

 

If you find such person, you can rest assure that you can bring him with you to the DESERT TRAIL in Australia From the EAST to the WEST.

 

From my experience, Sensors sometimes is dirty, especialy the Air-Flow Sensor, Please just clean it not ask customer to clean. IF change, why dun I buy one from teh spare part store then change it myself.

 

 

Alternator if spoil, please check if the rotor is work. It can be repaired.

 

This is what I called REPAIR MEchanic.

 

 

 

For CAR Engine MOD Mechanic, they are a class higher, they have a bad habit in wanting the best quality. It is because they have been dealing with Performance car most of the time. Performance car will, always use good stuff.

 

Cheers

 

Gimmy

 

There are 2 problems. Most people want new parts rather than fixed parts, and that more often than not, its now more cost effective for the end consumer to get a new part than to get it repaired.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Elfenstar

[Elfenstar]

[reply

 

If you ground a long wire from the alternator negative to the Battery terminial Negative.

 

[/reply]

 

No mech or auto-elect worth his salt would ground anything directly to the battery except the chassis (which technically isn't a ground) unless that component has no contact or the contact has been cut off from the chassis.