Grounding kit

[Best_ctzn]

Hi ELFENSTAR. Those who got some tinkering with automotive grouding will know that the car chassis is used as gigantic ground plane, with a short thin cable connected to the negative battery terminal. It is from this ground plane that other electrical parts needing ground taptheir ground from. The side-effect is that it will be very noisy (since ground return path of clean and noist circuits all merge there) and will not be optimal for those needing clean signal, prime being for ICE use. But this is a tradeoff that car maker take because of much lower cost and easier manufacturing process to hook a cable from any electrical sub-assembly to the ground plane as the ground plane (car chassis) is everywhere. Some even do daisy-chain from A to B to C before going to chassis.

 

And if you put in those generic 5-point grounding kit, surely some points will be duplicated, resulting in ground loops. Some points might work but some might not, with end result that it might be worse-off or better. That is why I put it as hit-and-miss.

 

So basically we have 2 issues here: noise, and ground loop. But not everyone will understand it, especially a kacang puteh man. I do not like to quote from those not expert in their fields as I know their quotes are good for a laugh only, cannot take seriously one. Tell me if you will trust them to do up ur car grounding? Sorry bro, just need to get this off my chest. Not directed at you lah. :-) Cheers.

[Elfenstar]

FACT : Different metals have different resistance to electricity. GOLD is the best conductor, then silver followed by copper. Steel/iron is not a vey good conductor.

 

FACT : Car manufacturers are not going to give you the best possible/ideal cables and grounding. They have a bottom-line to protect and also to keep the car as light as possible.

 

I'm bored so i'm going to nitpick and grumble....

 

Here's the nitpick... doesnt silver actually have the best electrical and thermal conductivity of all metals?

 

Now for the grumble.... Geez... its not going to cost them that much to have a 2G wire (which is the most common wire size that is connected to the positive terminal) connected to the chassis as well as compared to that "made in china computer speaker wire" that they normally use... even the factory ground wire for my auto-g/box that is connected to the chassis is thicker....

[Elfenstar]

No offence taken since elect isn't really my field although i do know some basics. Anything too complicated for me and i consult one of my many engineer friends before i kill anything (Sorry no kacang puteh man ) Besides unless i'm too lazy, i do everything myself anyway.

 

Your first para is entirely correct.

 

Lets see if i got these right though... as much as i dislike generic grounding kits, they often connect the alternator, firewall, engine head, engine bottom to the chassis and one wire from the chassis to the battery and require the original batt-chassis wire to be removed. In 90% of auto designs the only ground wire duplication that would result would be from the alt to chassis, but as long as the ground cables are connected to the chassis and not to another piece of equipment, shouldnt there be no ground loops as there are no multiple grounds between the diff elect equipments, rather there are multiple ground cables running to the ground plane???

[Vtim]

Lets see if i got these right though... as much as i dislike generic grounding kits, they often connect the alternator, firewall, engine head, engine bottom to the chassis and one wire from the chassis to the battery and require the original batt-chassis wire to be removed. In 90% of auto designs the only ground wire duplication that would result would be from the alt to chassis, but as long as the ground cables are connected to the chassis and not to another piece of equipment, shouldnt there be no ground loops as there are no multiple grounds between the diff elect equipments, rather there are multiple ground cables running to the ground plane???

---

 

this is one of the method to avoid ground loop, it's a like a star topology for ground distribution for those selected point of equiptment

[Elfenstar]

exactly. what i meant though was those are the instructions on a grounding kit. the only real difference is that there are more than one arm connected to the equipment.

 

but without having more than one equipment grounded directly to another piece of equipment there can be no ground loop can there???

[Vtim]

but without having more than one equipment grounded directly to another piece of equipment there can be no ground loop can there???

---

 

that's true, as long as you only have a single return ground (to battery) from each equipment, there won't be a ground loop

[Cavver]

u need to consider how to deal with power surge. adding capacitors is like power bank, upgrading 16V engine to 24V to gain smooth throttle prima facie but each cap contain fair bit of voltage and tat can damage parts if there r spikes

 

 

Then how abt capacitor wit higher farad connected in series ?? shuld be alrite ?

[Elfenstar]

Great coz this means generic ground kits are fine as long as instructions are followed coz their ground points are almost never in an OEM daisy-chain ground system.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Elfenstar

[Apollo]

Hi ELFENSTAR. Those who got some tinkering with automotive grouding will know that the car chassis is used as gigantic ground plane, with a short thin cable connected to the negative battery terminal. It is from this ground plane that other electrical parts needing ground taptheir ground from. The side-effect is that it will be very noisy (since ground return path of clean and noist circuits all merge there) and will not be optimal for those needing clean signal, prime being for ICE use. But this is a tradeoff that car maker take because of much lower cost and easier manufacturing process to hook a cable from any electrical sub-assembly to the ground plane as the ground plane (car chassis) is everywhere. Some even do daisy-chain from A to B to C before going to chassis.

 

And if you put in those generic 5-point grounding kit, surely some points will be duplicated, resulting in ground loops. Some points might work but some might not, with end result that it might be worse-off or better. That is why I put it as hit-and-miss.

 

So basically we have 2 issues here: noise, and ground loop. But not everyone will understand it, especially a kacang puteh man. I do not like to quote from those not expert in their fields as I know their quotes are good for a laugh only, cannot take seriously one. Tell me if you will trust them to do up ur car grounding? Sorry bro, just need to get this off my chest. Not directed at you lah. :-) Cheers.

Dear Sir,

 

According to your statement which is most likely to be ture.

 

From your statement I would say that within the 5 point ground cable , some helps and some does not.

For instance, the Alternator is grounded to the Car body, there is a negative wire grounded to the car body in my Engine bay in stock condition. A short wire.

 

If you ground a long wire from the alternator negative to the Battery terminial Negative.

 

Which path will the current take? The stock grounding path or the addtional new grounding path?

 

Base on your Hypothesis, I would say that grounding helps for some, and some are redundant.

It adds weight to your Engine, redandant weight.

 

Cheers

 

Gimmy

 

identity crisis si boh?

 

 

[Elfenstar]

As an added note to best_ctzn and vtim (sorry a "lil" off topic)

 

I will prolly need to consult you guys for the setup on something a lil more complicated at the end of the year when i get back as i'm starting my own business and will be running a dual battery setup in the van as i may need to charge or power things such as a dedicated carputer and power tools like impact drivers, angle grinders etc. Possibly even an air compressor for short 30min (max) jobs that require air-tools. To complicate things further, i'm prolly going to have a few roof mounted solar arrays to assist the alt in charging.

 

Edit: while i'm at it i might as well as both your advice as i'm getting all my tools and equip while i'm in melb and shipping it back and need to take this into consideration. Should I get a heavy but portable air compressor and have it powered via a long cable or should I get something less portable but get a much longer air hose???

Edited August 8, 2007 by Elfenstar

[Elfenstar]

take it easy lah bro, what he means that depending on how the OEM setup is as well as how the mech wires it up it may or may not help.

[Ea_falcon]

FACT : Different metals have different resistance to electricity. GOLD is the best conductor, then silver followed by copper. Steel/iron is not a vey good conductor.

 

FACT : Car manufacturers are not going to give you the best possible/ideal cables and grounding. They have a bottom-line to protect and also to keep the car as light as possible.

 

I'm bored so i'm going to nitpick and grumble....

 

Here's the nitpick... doesnt silver actually have the best electrical and thermal conductivity of all metals?

 

Now for the grumble.... Geez... its not going to cost them that much to have a 2G wire (which is the most common wire size that is connected to the positive terminal) connected to the chassis as well as compared to that "made in china computer speaker wire" that they normally use... even the factory ground wire for my auto-g/box that is connected to the chassis is thicker....

 

Oops, you are right, silver is the best....

 

As, for your grumble, tell it to the bean counters. Might not be much extra per car, but multiply that by 500,000 cars...

[Elfenstar]

wah lau... all they have to do is charge $5 more for each car for that $1 worth of cable and they'll be earning $1000000 extra

[Apollo]

aiya... just buy one of those petrol generator is a better option lah. no need to use air compressor and wait for it to charge up.

 

mel there cannot rent tools one meh?

 

http://www.betterrentals.com.au/products.jsp?cat=19&group=5

 

http://www.industrysearch.com.au/Suppliers...ion_Compressors

[Elfenstar]

air compressor for air tools lah. most elect tools either wear out quicker or can't exert as much force (or at least not in as small a package) as air tools. using an air compressor is loud enough, adding a petrol generator for power will be even worse. besides if i use elect tools i would use 18v cordless ones so the charging will be when i'm on the move.

 

As for the tools, i'm bring them back to sg bro. i've done some math and i'll end up with better quality ones for the same cost of buying tools in sg.

[Ea_falcon]

as i said before lor, they got budget to keep to. they wanna price the car at $59,999 and not $60,004. Although the difference is only $5, the perceived difference in price is $10,000. One is around 50k, whereas the other is above 60k.

[Apollo]

after excess bagguage still chirper?

[Elfenstar]

ahhh marketing The bane of quality products