Fiat 500 Launch On 18th Apr

[Enrique]

yes in the recent yrs Ford, Citroen and Subaru were dominating but where were they when Lancia and Audi were dominating?

 

SX-4 is entering the WRC this yr to test their machine. they r not even in all the races this yr. See how they perform in the coming yrs. i sure they will do much betta.

 

A car never in WRC doesn't mean that they r no gd. Fiat may be concentrating in other areas of motorsports etc motogp, FIA European Rally Championship.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Enrique

[Enrique]

i'm pretty sure that If they want to, they can come out with very good cars to compete.

[Kelpie]

sigh...

 

as said before, this car is not for the mass market, it is only meant for pple who appreciate for wat it is and like it for wat it is on top of the decent performance...no pt bringing in other mass mkt cars to compare with this, becos at end of the day, watever car pple bring in to compare with the 500, it will always make the choice of buying 500 seems stupid and devoid of logic. Iam not going to tell everyone tat this car is so fantastic in performance and so it makes sense to buy it...becos no matter how good this car is, it doesn't make sense to buy any mini cars like this for more than 20K over wat is generally available in the mkt..this car is meant for those who find the drive satisfying and on top of that really like the car for its design and wants to own a piece of history..in another words, buying it with heart and passion way over practicality..no need to even bring in Swift for tat matter to compare. Even bringing in the Kelisa to compare is gd enuf, becos you can buy 2 Kelisas with wat one pay for a 500.

 

wat Iam trying to present here is, the car itself shld be good (and no, Iam not trying to say that the car is so good that its price tag of 20K++ abv the likes of Swift and etc and is justifiable) and anyone attempting to put it down as a mediocre performance car so as to say that it is not worth of any consideration obviously have either not test driven it or just simply is too prejudiced against it to even give it a chance. 2ndly, my pt is, the AD's pricing strategy is not exactly out of the line for a newly launched car like this which is a niche mkt car with an OMV of 20K and with few admirers, you just have got to price it at a higher margin level..otherwise, no pt to even bring it into Singapore..and btw way, I think it would be an achievement for TTS to even sell 40 units of this per annum. and anyone thinking that TTS shld be reducing the price by 10K so as to boost sales volume is hugely mistaken. its not feasible.

 

1. It is very true that this car has no performance other than calling it a designer car probably due to historical reasons and heritage. This is the only selling point that they better capitalized on it. I'm not sure why we start to compare it with jap cars probably when Jazz was brought into the picture .

 

2. No one would associate a Fiat as a premium brand in Singapore in the 1st place, probably the like would be a Ford. If branding is not strong, coupled with negative image () plus mediocre performance, I wonder how many will bite.

 

3. Ok, lets not even talk about its mediocre performance. S$76~79k at this time, 23/04/2008 for one, any taker for the designer car, a Small car that guaranteed to make heads turned? Are we saying that prospects should just wait for the price to go lower then bite? how much do we think is a comfortable price for a 500 eventually?

 

4. Based on records, Fiat sold an average of 33 cars for the past 3 months this year. There are better Fiat cars around, certainly not a 500.

 

Regards,

[Eyke]

i think not many in Singapore know (or care) much about Fiat (500) heritage,

so it boils down to looks and quality.

 

as haven't seen/touched it, so i'll skip quality.

 

but looks-wise, it's not particularly cute nor stylish.

 

to me, Mini is more stylish and Beetle more cute, and both are more iconic.

 

those looking for something similar may get Nissan March instead:

 

Edited April 23, 2008 by Eyke

[W210k]

Yup, my recall list is based on current WRC standings.

Of course I adore the Audi Quattro!

In fact the new A4 3.2L Quattro is attracting me a lot.

[Damienic]

I do not agree with pt 1. I may agree that this car performance is not going to be fantastic but going to the extent of saying NO performance and only selling pt is it is a designer car is not doing justice to it. Iam sure when the international panel of judges when deciding to award this car the Car of the yr for 2008 is not going to simply base their decision on nothing else other than design. There must be other factors they look at before coming to this decision other than its design and history. While I agree that its performance wouldn't be so good to the extent of it justfying such a premium for it, I will be sceptical to believe that the accolades it has been winning is merely becos of its design and nothing else. Pls also note that when Jazz was brought up for mention, it was done so to prove the fact that high premiums can be slapped on newly launched cars for ADs trying to market the car as a premium car. The example of Jazz is to drive home the pt that there are other ADs pricing their cars at even more ridiculous levels when it is firstly launched and so there is nothing weird or unusual in the way this car was priced during the launch period.

 

I agree with no.2. Fiat has not much of a image in Singapore. But I often wonder why and find this phenomenon unusual despite the fact that it has won the most international awards by any car manufacturer. Ferrari and Maserati are too highly regarded brands in Singapore and they are owned by the Fiat Grp but yet strangely the entry level of Fiat vehicles is generally regarded as sub-standard.

 

As for pt 3, there is no comfortable price for 500 in Singapore. Few will consider any small cars of below 1.4cc at abv 60K. So, reducing the car by 5k or 10K will not bring the price to any level that is comfortable among singaporeans. A comfortable price in this case is when the buyer decides that its appeal is too strong to him/her that he/she decide to buy it over practical reasons and pple as such usually will not be too tight on his/her budget

 

Pt 4. Fiat is selling relatively well these days compared to other bread and butter conti makes but this car will not sell well not becos it is a lousy car. Rather becos it is a niche mkt car. everyone knows niche mkt means modest volume but at decent margin levels. It is also baffling as to why you maintain Fiat is respectable brand but yet dismiss 500 based on specs alone and before going down to take a look or did any test drive.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Damienic

[W210k]

actually not really la dey....it is quite rare for people to pit focus against 500. the focus are commonly matched up against the golfs and astras etc.

 

what i read is the 500 is a niche segment, targetted for ladies that likes small cars, not so much for the testosterone charged power-crazed guy who will go for the focus st or golf gti anytime.

 

when i say segment, it is not just simple conti segment. even within conti segment there sub segment cars for guys, for gals and between cars targetted for guys or gals there are still sub division of whether selling for cuteness, for its history (like beetle), selling for power/handling or for equipment level etc

 

I am pitting the Focus ST with the 500 1.4L (100 BHP) based on price point alone.

Some others in this thread say its the AWD Rex (vs 1.4L), while others say its the Swift Sport (vs 1.2L). But I think they are all comparing against price-to-performance/driveability/handling etc.

 

The 500 1.2L may be targetted to a niche ladies' market segment, but I don't think the 1.4L will be positioned the same way ... and definitely not the 500 Arbarth.

There are 500s and there are 500s.

[Enrique]

In summary, a manufacturer not in a specific motorsport championship doesn't mean they r lousy at doing things.

 

btw the only car with bragging rights in WRC is Lancia. http://www.motorsportsetc.com/champs/wrc.htm

Edited April 23, 2008 by Enrique

[W210k]

Yup, but I can't say much about FIAT cars though (even though I owned one eons ago).

Audi is in a different league altogether. Its beyond compare (vs FIAT), IMHO.

 

Quality, reliability and brand prestige.

Some luxury cars may have all 3, in varying degrees.

Others cars may have 2 out of 3.

 

FIAT? I don't know man.

Shouldn't judge the 500 on looks alone (not that it has anything to begin with). But what looks nice inside may soon fall apart after just a few years (like my FIAT did). The perception of quality from touch and feel may be quite deceptive in the showroom.

 

... only time will tell.

Edited April 23, 2008 by W210k

[Enrique]

Definitely Fiat cannot be compared to Audi cos they r in different market segment. Fiats are targetted at budget consumers.

 

Fiat SPA and VW group market their products like this,

 

Ferrari------Lambo/Bugatti

Maserati-----Audi

Alfa Romeo-----VW

Fiat/Lancia-----Seat/Skoda

Edited April 23, 2008 by Enrique

[Acemundo]

"I'm not sure why we start to compare it with jap cars probably when Jazz was brought into the picture"

 

bcos not many complained abt jazz pricing then (compared to 500 pricing now) even when the omv of about 16-17k also translates into huge mark up then. and this is despite it being meant for mass market segment and also a small (but not puny) car.

 

why? if we bothered to ask ourselves we will know the answer.

 

bcos also then you did not mention that 500 is in the niche segment so i will use mass market car theory to debunk the argument.

 

a 3-4k omv difference will naturally translate to a 7-10k difference in price, so which is the car being overpriced?

[Acemundo]

err i think u quoted the wrong focus.....

 

the 100bhp focus is not the focus ST.

 

anyway, no one interested in the focus will consider the 500 a close substitute. so it is like comparing apples to oranges

[W210k]

I don't think I quoted the wrong Focus.

 

My earlier post said this:

 

"Even between conti-and-conti ... Ford Focus ST 2.5L 225 BHP at $99K vs FIAT 500 1.4L 100 BHP at $90K? ST is also a very niche car. "

 

The 100 BHP I had referred to was the FIAT 500 1.4L 100 BHP (which TTS will be bringing in).

 

Both the 2 cars are in the same price point ... $90-something K.

So if I have that money, which car should I buy? I'd choose the durian over the apple for the same price.

Edited April 23, 2008 by W210k

[Enrique]

yes only time will tell.

 

anyway Fiat Spa with so many mouths to feed from Ferrari all the way down to Fiat, surely won't neglect their quality, otherwise many italians will be jobless.

[Damienic]

Focus ST price is indeed very attractive. I have always felt that this car is one of the best value for money buys currently in the mkt. but having said that, wat is the price of the ST when it is first launched? Iam not too sure but feel comparision shld be newly launched price vs newly launched price..then it will be a fairer comparision..if it has been in the mkt for quite sometime, naturally price will come down a little as not only AD will reduce profit level down but the OMV will sometimes also come down a bit. apart from that, also have to look at the OMV. the OMV of ST is abt 3-4K higher than the 500 abarth if I'm not wrong?

[Acemundo]

haha....will you do a $1000 manicure or pedicure or hairdo? no!

 

why? because you are you and not a gal! some ladies will see the value in a $1000 manicure or hairdo. some rich guy will want to get a car with certain heritage or a headturner.

 

my point is such cars appeal to either the rich or the gals which have very different considerations in getting a car. you can never feel or think like them so no matter what you choose, you still far from represent the market that the dealers are targetting.

 

i never try to convince myself i can put myself in their shoes. cos i know i can never!

[Enrique]

Anyway to all the good souls here, let's not argue anymore whether the 500 is worth to buy or not, the dealer has its choice to price the product. the buyer has his/her choice to buy or not. It's not up to us.

 

If the buyer deems worth it, then he/she will fork out the money.

 

It's something like ur gf/wife, she may not have the angel's face and devil's body However u still chose her over others becos there is something that attracted to u abt her.

[Acemundo]

precisely haha.....

 

that's why i don't try to put myself in another person's shoes to judge his liking for his wife.

 

maybe my friend value intelligence so he chose an intelligent but not rich, not pretty, doesn't possess body-to-die-for wife.

 

so do i tell him he is stupid to choose intelligence over 3 other factors? or i tell him if were him, i will dump this wife