Wine Investment

[Newbie_driver]

well.... just have to understand that most, if not all sales person work on the principle of greed especially in the financial sector (no offend...... ). most pple equate financial sector = BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Cty_15]

Precisely. I think my broker is just trying to pull a fast one but seriously, if you

Edited October 9, 2008 by Cty_15

[Hishercar]

you were lucky many many years ago i pump in about $10K after gotten smoke by these guys

 

they show me spread sheet bigger than my dining table with projected price rise

 

they got two or three experts to convince a group of us

 

now come to think about it these experts are just plain relationship manager like in the bank

 

in the end got back a few hundred bucks only

 

enough to buy two bottle of single malt whisky

 

 

I got about 100 bottles of xo, otard, hennessy and etc including some 30 year old ballatine whisky, johnny walker and etc

 

 

 

I am trying to sell them off

 

call this guy from the new paper advertisement

 

he wanted to buy my 1L henessy XO for $40-50 per bottle

 

I told him thank you

 

 

I rather drink it

 

 

anybody

[Newbie_driver]

hmmm........... guess must really avoid this company then ... thanks for the sharing.

[Silver_blade]

It is good that you managed to get the money back.

 

In any case, now is really lousy time for normal folks to do short-term investment.

[Route88]

what do you expect when one of the world biggest investment bank collapes??

 

individual investment banker/ advisor/ consultant/ whatever you name them..... 99%

 

Best time to keep the money as sleeping partners.

Put the money bawah bantal

[Soyammmilk]

guess ur wine broker is . i spoke to some of wine brokers, normally they will tell you out-front that you should be prepared to keep the wine for at least 3 years that why the price of the wine include at least 3 years insurance and storage. guess ur wine broker is just a normal sales person without much wine investment knowledge.

 

nowadays, it is hard to find a investment advisor that u can trust...

 

to fully realise the potiential gain in the prices you have to use time as a neutralising factor.

 

eg: 20years ago a 4 room HDB costs arnd 70k, today it fetches 250k at least, depending on location n other factors. if u sell it 1 year sfter you have bought it, the appreciation is minimal.

[Soyammmilk]

agree.... the buying power of china pple is now .... i have heard from my china friend tat some of the ultra rich pple build house to house their cash...

 

i believe wine investment is a relatively stable investment but alot depends on research, knowledge, process, reliable wine investment company and reliable wine broker (very important)

 

most people would not have enough knowledge about wines, so i always ask my clients to do their homework, before deciding.

 

as an investor myself, my advice would be to diversify your portfolio. banking all of your money on just one label would not be wise. it is like buying one type of shares in STI. a savvy investor would have known better not to put all your eggs into the basket.

 

If you really can only afford one label, go with the french wines, especially the first 5 growths. En primeur would be a good and more affordable way to start.

[Soyammmilk]

you were lucky many many years ago i pump in about $10K after gotten smoke by these guys

 

they show me spread sheet bigger than my dining table with projected price rise

 

they got two or three experts to convince a group of us

 

now come to think about it these experts are just plain relationship manager like in the bank

 

in the end got back a few hundred bucks only

 

enough to buy two bottle of single malt whisky

 

 

I got about 100 bottles of xo, otard, hennessy and etc including some 30 year old ballatine whisky, johnny walker and etc

 

 

 

I am trying to sell them off

 

call this guy from the new paper advertisement

 

he wanted to buy my 1L henessy XO for $40-50 per bottle

 

I told him thank you

 

 

I rather drink it

 

 

anybody

 

i have a client that was once a victim of this 'Whisky Investment'

 

The difference is that whisky and brandy is distilled from wine and other alcoholic beverages. it is like Coke, which can be duplicated.

 

Fine Wine however, will have to depend on the weather in which the grapes are harvested from, and also the winery's skills. history plays a part too, so does the wine critics' rating.

 

every vintage is critiqued by the wine critics, as they are uniquely different, even if the label is the same.

[Soyammmilk]

i agree with you that it is not a good time to do short term investments in the light of the financial market turmoil.

 

which is why it is a good time to know more about alternative investment platforms and do some homework.

 

choosing a good and reliable broker is important. i am lucky i have found a good one, so much so that i have decided to join his industry.

[Soyammmilk]

anyone here is into wine investment? just wanna check how does it work? advice?

 

I've got some AU wine investment (from U*G) last year and it is the worst thing in my life.

Before buy,

1. Promise that the company can sell the wine for you anytime

2. Promise that we can get at least 5-7% growth per year.

3. "Show" the "current price" that we can sell the wine now.

4. Promise that the company had evaluated the wine and it's a good buy.

 

After buy, and want to sell after 1 year,

1. Say cannot find seller. (Still got the cheek to show me the "existing" sale price of the wine, which is fake.)

2. Give me bull stories about how great the wine industry will be in China and HK,etc

3. Talked to some lawyers and they said that in the contract, the wine "investment" company is nothing more than a wine retailer selling wine at super high price.

 

I managed to get my $ back after chasing it for 6 month (with > 5% lost). Full of agony and I'm thinking of lodging a regulatory complaint against the company now.

 

you have to understnad that wine as an investment needs time to appreciate in value. which is why most, if not all brokerage firms, include 3-5 years of storage, as it is the recommended minimum range period of time to see the appreciation.

 

if the client wish to sell off the wines, we can sell it off for you, but because it is less than the recommended time frame, you could be suffering from a less than projected returns.

 

all of the brokerage firms charge a fee for the exit, so with the growth per year, times 3-5 years recommended, you still are getting a pretty good return.

 

As it is not affected by the financial factors that bugs mainstream investment platforms, the prices would not crash to below your capital sum, so your capital is assured.

 

you probably were not informed about these factors, which is why homework is important.

[Newbie_driver]

agree... it works on the same principle as bond, insurance, .....

[Soyammmilk]

to the clients, it does sound like bonds and insurance, in terms of holding term and ROI. however, there are differences.

 

In finance, a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and is obliged to repay the principal and interest (the coupon) at a later date, termed maturity. A bond is simply a loan in the form of a security with different terminology.it enable the issuer to finance long-term investments with external funds.

so there are chances that the issuer will lose money or even go bankrupt, as in the case of Lehmann Brothers. if that happens, your capital is not assured.

 

investment linked insurance policies are using the money you have put in with your insurance companies, to generate profit so that the profit can be shared with you. it is also tied down with the financial market.

 

As for FWI, it is not tied down with the financial market, which is why you do not see the prices of a bottle of fine wine crashing down after the market has crashed. this is a testimonial to the fact that alot of people are turning into FWI in times of financial market turmoil.

 

as years go by, the supply of a particular label reaches drinking maturity and people starts to drink. supply will become lower as it cannot be duplicated, due to the fact that it is an agricultural product. when you apply the laws of Supply and Demand, if the supply decreases, it will push the prices up.

 

that is how simple it is.

[Verve]

wine investment is an alternative investment. thats about it

 

i find your views coloured and biased

 

and remarks such as

 

" this is a testimonial to the fact that alot of people are turning into FWI in times of financial market turmoil. "

 

 

seem to support my observation.

 

i dont find alot of people doing so.

 

prove it with facts and figures, the no of people in fine wine investment is at most a small amount

 

anyway for investors or the savvy ones with $$$, this is a time to buy equity precisely because of the cheap valuations.

 

anyway fine wine investment cannot rival the returns of equity though i admit the risks can be less.

 

i hope you are not using this forum as a platform to field your sales pitch.

[Cty_15]

I understand about the holding period for a wine investment and how it worked.

 

The reason why I'm frustrated with this company is because they themselves do not believe in their own wine valuation.

 

I tried to sell them back (1 year later) the wine at cost price but they insist on finding a buyer for me (which they can't of course).

 

Then they bought the wine back (at >5% discount) from me after 6 full months of nonsense. wtf...........

 

Talk about their own belief in their business model..... super dodgy.

 

Anyway, I've made up my mind to lodge a regulatory complaint to the authority when I go on leave after 20th Oct.

[Marquee]

I am not into FWI. The only thing I know abt wine is to buy them in bulk when Crystal Wine is having an offer or NTUC has new inexpensive wine.

 

However, to mention that FWI is not financial market related is not entirely correct. FWI is only less co-relate than equity, bonds and interest rate.

 

Broadly speaking, collecting fine art is equally a good safe investment and it can only appreciate over time. It is more defensive than FWI and the appreciation can be many times more.

 

So it is not an apple to apple comparison; but if you have the appetite for FWI, by all means. BTW, judging a wine base on Robert Parker is a little blind leading a blind, although I have my respect on his review.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Marquee

[Gary84]

which salesman serviced u?....I knw pple wrking in the company...

[Cty_15]

It doesn't matter now.

 

What I want to do now is to make pp aware of the pitfall of wine investment and hope that the authorities do something about it.

 

Especially now many commoners are losing money in Lehman minibond & DBS high 5 notes.

 

I'm not saying that wine investment are absolutely a sure lose situation.

 

In fact, I still believe that if I invest properly, I could still gain in wine investment.

 

It's only that this company is,contractually , a wine retailer putting a "investment" shop front. 挂羊头卖狗肉

 

Nothing is stopping this company from selling a $1 wine to the commoner, saying this wine is worth $100 and walk away from it.

 

I'm just lucky this time round.

 

This company needs to assume more fiduciary duty and get regulated.