Is stock trading a sin?

[Freestylers09]

BTW if i buy high at $5, pple gain from me...however those who shorted from this price,they gain

 

if i cover myself by shorting too, i will gain too..

 

and the price will stay in another trading range

 

there's no ending in trading one..

 

theres no冤冤相报和时了 LOL

[Freestylers09]

sad to say ,stocks trading is "legel manipulation"

 

demand supply etc affect the price

 

who make these demand,supply? We the buyers...or rather big boys when doing thier distribution and accumulations?

 

isnt it?

[Freestylers09]

Greed and ignorance of the market is the answer to how..

 

Quote u example

 

Unwell Chiong 7c in morning but buyers rush in without thinking why,end up close 6c at the end of the day

 

so,cannot blame those who sell fast as they are not greedy to let go a gain at 7c,however those greedy one who see it climbs so fast and wana earn some,enter the market,end up corner inside..

 

who's fault?seller who sell early or the one who buy so high?

 

morally it's no both fault, why? they are willing buyers,no one ask them to go rush in..

 

rite?

 

therefore,its not a sin,coz they know the consequences if overtrade,yet they still do it..

 

 

[Throttle2]

Thanks for sharing.

 

 

 

Through mechanisms such as short-selling, not everyone loses when valuations fall. Short-sellers make a windfall when the counters that they are shorting fall to zero.

 

Thanks for the clarification and also pointing out the fact that the last one who holds the stock when the market turns around is the one who loses. This is the point that I would like to emphasise. Is this any different from someone selling a product that has no utility value i.e. it ends up not having any real-world use? If I invent a magic stone (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-17792822.html) and then start selling it to people claiming that its value will increase over time, and there are people who subscribe to this belief, does it mean that buying and selling the magic stone is a legitimate investment? There will come a point when the market realises the magic stone is nothing more than just a con-job. The last one holding the magic stone pays for all the gains of the ones before.

 

Thank you!

 

Bro, you have kinda missed my point.

I am simply saying that stock trading is not a zero sum game.

I am not in the discussion of whether it is morally intact or not.

Nor am i discussing about how one can make money in an upswing or a downfall.

 

To explain that equation, i had to break it down using my simple explanation.

 

By talking about short selling etc etc, you have added many exponentials into the equation and thus many lines are crossed so it makes it more difficult for me to dice it up the equation to prove. Now do we know whose money we made or who made our money?

The answer is no becos there are too many participants in this world but that doesnt matter.

Losses are not = Profits .

At any one time , there could be more made in the market versus lost in the market and vice versa.

even if you strip out transactionary , tax implications, it is just not a zero sum game, period.

 

I do understand the points that you are putting across.

and they are good fair points except for the wrong notion of the stock market being a zero sum game, thats all

 

by the way, I am experienced both academically and in practice in all that has been discussed in this thread so far as i have been eavesdropping for many years on people from low to very high levels in the financial industry while i wipe their tables. heh

 

cheers.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Throttle2

[Throttle2]

ah...this is what i i trying to say but do not know how to put it in words nicely, but i sure u will come in and advise

 

u Super wiper indeed words are different

 

CAVEAT EMPTOR

 

 

Paiseh lah.

Simi super wiper?

 

How super also employee, not like you freestyling .....

 

 

 

 

[Happily1986]

I don't believe that capital is a zero sum entity. Capital can be generated and vanish overnight.

 

back to the topic. while i don't suppose stock trading is totally wrong, i think commodity trading is not a good idea particularly when speculation in commodity futures can bring about alot of hardship for many many people. To capitalise at the dire expense of others in a context when the "other" in question don't have a means of representation of opinion, is a sin to me

[Throttle2]

I don't believe that capital is a zero sum entity. Capital can be generated and vanish overnight.

 

back to the topic. while i don't suppose stock trading is totally wrong, i think commodity trading is not a good idea particularly when speculation in commodity futures can bring about alot of hardship for many many people. To capitalise at the dire expense of others in a context when the "other" in question don't have a means of representation of opinion, is a sin to me

 

exactly, it is not.

 

sigh, there are too many wrongs in the whole world that we live in........

 

have a peaceful Sunday fellas.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Throttle2

[Ngnguan]

Is it possible to trade for a living?

[Taipan49]

Is it possible to trade for a living?

 

Yes, but go do a lot of research first before diving in. My suggestion is to read the Jack Schwager books, these are interviews with well-renowned traders and a lot of their success is from having strict entry and exit points for trading and controlling ones own emotions. They spend a lot of time refining their strategies, and a lot of patience is required. I used to trade a lot and managed to save up enough to go travelling by myself for a year, but nowadays have family to look after so my risk profile is a lot smaller.

[Ngnguan]

Hi Taipan, are you a fulltime trader, possible to share your experience how you pick up this trade?

 

Yes, but go do a lot of research first before diving in. My suggestion is to read the Jack Schwager books, these are interviews with well-renowned traders and a lot of their success is from having strict entry and exit points for trading and controlling ones own emotions. They spend a lot of time refining their strategies, and a lot of patience is required. I used to trade a lot and managed to save up enough to go travelling by myself for a year, but nowadays have family to look after so my risk profile is a lot smaller.

 

[Taipan49]

Hi Taipan, are you a fulltime trader, possible to share your experience how you pick up this trade?

 

Not any more, but still work in the industry.

 

But always been interested in the markets from high school. From there it was a case of learning how do markets work and perform. I find very useful to know the actual mechanics. And from there work out what type of companies/industries you understood and which ones you didn't. Rather than trying to pick a winner from everything, narrowed it down so I only monitored a selection of stocks, but I knew these stocks very well. The other point was determining what would be catalysts for their prices to change and researching that.

 

It takes time to build up this experience. Paper trading and keeping discipline to this is a good starting point.

[Ngnguan]

I would like to try but think I need a master to guide me !!!

 

Not any more, but still work in the industry.

 

But always been interested in the markets from high school. From there it was a case of learning how do markets work and perform. I find very useful to know the actual mechanics. And from there work out what type of companies/industries you understood and which ones you didn't. Rather than trying to pick a winner from everything, narrowed it down so I only monitored a selection of stocks, but I knew these stocks very well. The other point was determining what would be catalysts for their prices to change and researching that.

 

It takes time to build up this experience. Paper trading and keeping discipline to this is a good starting point.

 

[Throttle2]

Is it possible to trade for a living?

 

Yes, a few people in here do that.

 

Not me, i'm too stupid.

[Jamesc]

Again, you are mixing up trading and investing.

 

Temasek did not trade. They invest. But apparently they screwed up their investment.

 

For trading, over-capitalised is never a bad thing because it allows you to stay in the game far longer provided you follow your trading plan. If no plan, then $10 or $10 mill you will still lose it.....just a matter of time.

If they invest and lose money

 

maybe it would be better to start

 

trading and make some money?

 

[Jamesc]

What are we all working towards?

 

Is it having the latest technology of i-pods and i-phones, being first in class and school, earning $200k a month?

 

Or is it finding a way out of the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual suffering that we experience on a daily basis?

 

What is true happiness? The leaders and people of the world today make us think that it is the achievement of material wealth and the endless pursuit of technological improvements. Do these necessarily lead to greater and true happiness?

 

When was the last time you were genuinely happy, not the kind which fade away in a day or two, but a deep-seated joy and happiness that comes from deep within you?

I am not 100% sure that earning $200k will really make me happy

 

but I don't mind getting $200k for a few months just to make sure.

 

Any millionaires can help me with this experiment?

 

If it doesn't make me happy I will return all your money with interest.

 

[Spiderman302]

Is PCC a sin?

[New_Atlantis]

What are we all working towards?

 

Is it having the latest technology of i-pods and i-phones, being first in class and school, earning $200k a month?

 

Or is it finding a way out of the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual suffering that we experience on a daily basis?

 

What is true happiness? The leaders and people of the world today make us think that it is the achievement of material wealth and the endless pursuit of technological improvements. Do these necessarily lead to greater and true happiness?

 

When was the last time you were genuinely happy, not the kind which fade away in a day or two, but a deep-seated joy and happiness that comes from deep within you?

 

The route to true happiness is on the same map as the fountain of youth.

One can only contemplate such problems when they are confident of their future.

 

I believe what you have is contentment, happiness that you speak of only exist our children.

That's why I feel happy when I look into my child's eye.

 

 

[Nojoke123]

You give your mum 2k from trading ?

You must be making a lot of $$$ there ?