Free Uni Places For Foreigners while Our Children Struggle

[Gearoil]

So Sinkies you bay song right...now kenna your children...

 

What you gonna to do?

 

Comprain some more lah....see will get worse or better?

[Fishy]

Im not saying we dont need or benefit from NS. we still need to defend against terrorists, pirates etc - and we need it for nation building - but logically we dont really need it for defense against another country.

 

so if we only need to defend against terrorists and pirates then who is going to do the job?

[Wizzz_wizzz]

Regarding this issue, even after the last election, some MPs had said over live interview on radio, besides saying we cannot have an oversupply of university graduates, for those who do not have a degree, "its not the end of the world, there are many successful ppl such as Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc who does not have a degree".

 

How many Steve Jobs or Bill Gates can we have? Yes, there are many successful examples, many more examples of non-graduates doing much better. Like almost all parents, I would hope my kids would be given a chance to get a university degree, at least there is a certain level of assurance.

 

[Badder]

so if we only need to defend against terrorists and pirates then who is going to do the job?

 

 

um the same people who are doing it now...

 

 

note i didnt say we didnt need ns.

 

 

only commenting on what we need it for. terrorism and pirates, not invasion by another countries military.

 

 

in our whole history thats never been a threat and these days increasingly its never going to be.

 

 

 

 

[Badder]

Regarding this issue, even after the last election, some MPs had said over live interview on radio, besides saying we cannot have an oversupply of university graduates, for those who do not have a degree, "its not the end of the world, there are many successful ppl such as Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc who does not have a degree".

 

How many Steve Jobs or Bill Gates can we have? Yes, there are many successful examples, many more examples of non-graduates doing much better. Like almost all parents, I would hope my kids would be given a chance to get a university degree, at least there is a certain level of assurance.

 

 

the concern is as we are becoming more affluent and our expectations rise we will end up with a workforce where everyone has a degree. that's not a good thing for society. we need local people at all levels. we dont want to have degree holders sweeping the streets they wont be happy. and we dont want to have all locals degree holders and all non degree jobs done by FW.....we would just have too many FW here then. There needs to be a balance and thats what the gov is obviously trying to manage

Edited October 27, 2011 by Badder

[Shull]

just like the locals do you mean.

 

How many of locals (in terms of percentage) will go overseas (be it temporary or permanent) after graduation as compared to foreign students?

 

The same is true of any reputable uni. Oxford uni has more FT than locals, many on scholarships.

 

No Uni would want to 'dumb down' its standing They are a business too. The more talented their students and faculty the more successful they become the more they grow and the more students that can intake.

 

I bet you understand it when your fav football team buys in a new player from another team instead of developing local talent. How many liverpudlians play for liverpool FC?

 

The fact is they know if you arent talented enough (because the standard is high) to get into local uni you will go to overseas. In same way liverpool fc doesnt have to worry about developing home talent as there is always lesser clubs where such talent can grow.

 

While i agree that there is a minimum standard that NUS and NTU need to achieve, i don't believe our local students are not good enough such that they have to mass import foreign students to make up the "quality".

 

A true case, a close buddy of mine. He's not that bright when it comes to academic theories, but very good when it comes to hands on practical. He scored slightly lesser As (and more Bs) than me during poly. I was accepted while he was rejected by NUS. But luckily, he got accepted by NTU. Guess what, he went on to score 2nd upper and is now doing PhD under scholarship from NTU.

[Badder]

How many of locals (in terms of percentage) will go overseas (be it temporary or permanent) after graduation as compared to foreign students?

 

 

many many

 

thats the point

 

we have to stop thinking in terms of local.

 

 

workforce and students these days are very very mobile

 

 

many of our grads leave or dont come back. go to sydney for eg.

 

 

unis want the best and are prepared to attract the best with scholarships

 

this is true of every uni in the world.

 

 

why should our unis be any different?

 

 

 

 

 

[Acieed]

 

If you look at the world ranking and then look at how the top universities compete for talents, then you may not like it, but could understand what our local universities are doing. It is not unique to Singapore, though we have fewer universities than most countries including a city trading port like Hong Kong:

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-...y-rankings/2011

 

If you have friends who studied in Japan on scholarship, you will know that the Japanese Government Scholarship is quite generous. VCs of Hong Kong's top universities are not local.

 

1. University of Cambridge

2. Harvard University

3. MIT

4. Yale University

5. University of Oxford

:

:

22. University of Hong Kong

:

25. The University of Tokyo

:

28. National University of Singapore

:

32. Kyoto University

:

37. Chinese University of Hong Kong

:

40. Hong Kong University of Science and Technology

:

42. Seoul University

:

58. Nayang Technological University

:

 

SMU is not ranked.

 

[Brendon1980]

many many

 

thats the point

 

we have to stop thinking in terms of local.

 

 

workforce and students these days are very very mobile

 

 

many of our grads leave or dont come back. go to sydney for eg.

 

 

unis want the best and are prepared to attract the best with scholarships

 

this is true of every uni in the world.

 

 

why should our unis be any different?

 

I find that your arguments are just so *ahem well one sided without considering the other side. Don't argue for the sake of arguing.

There is no right or wrong but without considering the opposite side and just one sided countering the other side does not make sense.

 

Firstly, you mentioned that to ask singaporeans to take up jobs at all levels, does that justify that singaporeans cannot pursue a higher education?

Secondly, since taking up jobs at all levels, would you want your son to be a road sweeper?

Thirdly, what the heck has taking up jobs at all levels got to do with allowing foreigners into the university?

Fourth, what is global competition? Fair competition grounds? Are you sure?

Fifth, you mentioned that in UK most on scholarships, have you got any proven statistics that the scholarships are sponsor from their own birth country or from the uni itself. I have being thru exchange in UK uni and I am pretty confident to counter your stats.

Sixth, you mentioned that the faculties are not wanted by locals, I seriously wonder where you get your statistics from. Science somemore. For your information, foreigners are pretty well spreaded out in all faculties NUS and NTU alike.

 

 

For your information, when I was in the university (NTU), a huge percentage of foreigners are on scholarships FROM our own mother country. I took tuition fee loan pay for my education. I studied equally hard and also graduated in the same class of honors from those foreigners. BUT during this period, I got no hostel cause too expensive, no 600 allowance from garment, no education scholarship from garment.

Upon graduating, I am paying for my tuition fee on my own for 3years. Barely any savings left after paying all the tuition fee. I see all the foreigners, getting married earlier than me because they have no need to pay back their fees. They can save up more than me. Job competition, I would say the same. But if they have no commitment no fees to pay, could they ask for a lower salary than me? Oh yeah so that is your definition of fair? Oh yes, does it have anything to do with birthrate?

This is education, which one shall not be deprive off if one is keen to study and have the capability to do so without creating an unbalance competition ground. Why should it be so?

Foresight is important, you cannot throw so many foreigners into the market to counter the lack of workers for the openings. So where is the balance?

You mentioned workers and students come and go, what is the reason? What is the cause?

Ever wondered what cause such?

Instead of proposing methods to retain them, you are forcing to look at the extreme alternative at the expense of so many citizens whom have also pledge loyalty to this land.

 

You know the hard truth and you are forcing people to swallow your logic. Do not follow the words of the garment like a bible, have a mind of your own.

[Badder]

I find that your arguments are just so *ahem well one sided without considering the other side. Don't argue for the sake of arguing.

There is no right or wrong but without considering the opposite side and just one sided countering the other side does not make sense.

 

Firstly, you mentioned that to ask singaporeans to take up jobs at all levels, does that justify that singaporeans cannot pursue a higher education?

Secondly, since taking up jobs at all levels, would you want your son to be a road sweeper?

Thirdly, what the heck has taking up jobs at all levels got to do with allowing foreigners into the university?

Fourth, what is global competition? Fair competition grounds? Are you sure?

Fifth, you mentioned that in UK most on scholarships, have you got any proven statistics that the scholarships are sponsor from their own birth country or from the uni itself. I have being thru exchange in UK uni and I am pretty confident to counter your stats.

Sixth, you mentioned that the faculties are not wanted by locals, I seriously wonder where you get your statistics from. Science somemore. For your information, foreigners are pretty well spreaded out in all faculties NUS and NTU alike.

 

 

For your information, when I was in the university (NTU), a huge percentage of foreigners are on scholarships FROM our own mother country. I took tuition fee loan pay for my education. I studied equally hard and also graduated in the same class of honors from those foreigners. BUT during this period, I got no hostel cause too expensive, no 600 allowance from garment, no education scholarship from garment.

Upon graduating, I am paying for my tuition fee on my own for 3years. Barely any savings left after paying all the tuition fee. I see all the foreigners, getting married earlier than me because they have no need to pay back their fees. They can save up more than me. Job competition, I would say the same. But if they have no commitment no fees to pay, could they ask for a lower salary than me? Oh yeah so that is your definition of fair? Oh yes, does it have anything to do with birthrate?

This is education, which one shall not be deprive off if one is keen to study and have the capability to do so without creating an unbalance competition ground. Why should it be so?

Foresight is important, you cannot throw so many foreigners into the market to counter the lack of workers for the openings. So where is the balance?

You mentioned workers and students come and go, what is the reason? What is the cause?

Ever wondered what cause such?

Instead of proposing methods to retain them, you are forcing to look at the extreme alternative at the expense of so many citizens whom have also pledge loyalty to this land.

 

You know the hard truth and you are forcing people to swallow your logic. Do not follow the words of the garment like a bible, have a mind of your own.

 

so when i make my opinion clear im being one sided but when you do it your not?

 

 

i am aware of your points and they are valid

 

 

but

 

 

you are ding exactly what you said you are - looking at it from a personal position.

 

 

i am looking at it from the position that is best for the country (and ergo whats best for the indivual in long run)

 

 

 

the uni system here is no different from every other country

 

ask yourself why all unis work this way.......

 

the answer is because its best for the uni and best for the country uni is in.

 

 

many singaporeans only look at and complain about stuff that has an immediate personal effect and they often miss out on the big picture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Badder]

to answer your specific questions:

Firstly, you mentioned that to ask singaporeans to take up jobs at all levels, does that justify that singaporeans cannot pursue a higher education?

nobody said "cant" its just a FACT that it would not be good for society if the asperations of our people cant be met. too many grads (in wrong fields) or in all fields means increasingly uncomptative labour costs, social tensions, increasing numbers of FW needed. your looking at it from whats best for individual not whats best for country. bit short and narrow sighted

 

 

Secondly, since taking up jobs at all levels, would you want your son to be a road sweeper?

of course not but again your perspective is a selfish one. we have to look at whats best for society and having too many overqualified people with too hgh expectations clearly isnt good.

 

Thirdly, what the heck has taking up jobs at all levels got to do with allowing foreigners into the university?

that was in reply to another point that was raised

 

 

Fourth, what is global competition? Fair competition grounds? Are you sure?

competition is a reality cant ask gov to protect us. not clever enough is it? if you dont think you need to worry about increasing global comp you must be living in a cave....

 

 

Fifth, you mentioned that in UK most on scholarships,

no i didnt. i merely stated good unis like oxford have a majority of foreign students. they dont SAVE or give prefferance to locals

 

 

[Eugeng]

so when i make my opinion clear im being one sided but when you do it your not?

 

 

i am aware of your points and they are valid

 

 

but

 

 

you are ding exactly what you said you are - looking at it from a personal position.

 

 

i am looking at it from the position that is best for the country (and ergo whats best for the indivual in long run)

 

 

 

the uni system here is no different from every other country

 

ask yourself why all unis work this way.......

 

the answer is because its best for the uni and best for the country uni is in.

 

 

many singaporeans only look at and complain about stuff that has an immediate personal effect and they often miss out on the big picture.

 

 

He asking you for statistics and you conveniently skip the question?

 

[Badder]

If you look at the world ranking and then look at how the top universities compete for talents, then you may not like it, but could understand what our local universities are doing. It is not unique to Singapore, though we have fewer universities than most countries including a city trading port like Hong Kong:

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-...y-rankings/2011

 

If you have friends who studied in Japan on scholarship, you will know that the Japanese Government Scholarship is quite generous. VCs of Hong Kong's top universities are not local.

 

1. University of Cambridge

2. Harvard University

3. MIT

4. Yale University

5. University of Oxford

:

:

22. University of Hong Kong

:

25. The University of Tokyo

:

28. National University of Singapore

:

32. Kyoto University

:

37. Chinese University of Hong Kong

:

40. Hong Kong University of Science and Technology

:

42. Seoul University

:

58. Nayang Technological University

:

 

SMU is not ranked.

 

100% correct

 

and 28th ranking for NTU is one heck of an achievement

 

 

Part of what makes a uni attractive (and ergo successful) is the kind of dynamism you get from having many foreign students. Its not a coincidence that the top unis have a lot of them. They can attract the best local and overseas talent because they are the best, they are the best because they can attract the best local and overseas talent

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Badder]

He asking you for statistics and you conveniently skip the question?

 

 

hes asking me for statistics on something i never said - moron

 

 

i lived in oxford for a while - maybe 10-20% of the students you see are foreign

 

 

at ntu its more like 1%

 

 

whats the problem?

 

 

Edited October 27, 2011 by Badder

[Eugeng]

hes asking me for statistics on something i never said - moron

 

 

He asked you where you get your statistic and why is there is need to insult when you cannot hold a discussion? that is so typical from the posting I see from you. if you cannot convince, you insult...

[Eugeng]

hes asking me for statistics on something i never said - moron

 

 

i lived in oxford for a while - maybe 10-20% of the students you see are foreign

 

 

at ntu its more like 1%

 

 

whats the problem?

 

 

Then pull out the statistic..

[Badder]

He asked you where you get your statistic and why is there is need to insult when you cannot hold a discussion? that is so typical from the posting I see from you. if you cannot convince, you insult...

 

 

i insult because your post was made for the sole purpose of trying to make me look foolish

 

 

If you dont want to be kicked - dont try and kick

 

Then pull out the statistic..

 

ok

 

 

Source:- http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/internation...ents/index.html

 

63% of the post grads at oxford are foreigners and 14% of undergrads

 

 

happy now?

 

How does that compare to NTU?

 

what are you crying about?

 

 

Edited October 27, 2011 by Badder

[Badder]

and if you look on the right hand side of the oxford uni webpage what do you see?

 

a link to

 

"Funding Search for International Students"

 

 

 

this is not an NTU issue. most/all unis offer funding to deserving foreign students - any deserving student