FT Likes It Here .....

[KARTer]

I used to be in the same camp as yours believing that NS shaping my character, I WAS proud of NS, Singapore and etc etc. Twenty years back, I will argue that PAP did such a great job, why change them!

 

Now, to me, NS is being a liability to Singaporean, it is better to hire a person that won't be disrupted by reservist commitment. In fact, Singaporean is being treated 2nd class. Look at the CCK drummer case, MP ask the neighbor to be understanding since child has special needs. One of my buddy kid has special needs, the kid has been diagnose as having extra-sensitive hearing, thus is easily disturb... Too bad my friend is a SINGAPOREAN, if not, he can somewhat demand via his MP to ensure all his neighour keep quiet at all times. Of course, my buddy do what he can for his kid. he sound proof the room, fix thicker windows, sound-damping curtain etc etc etc so that the kid can have uninterrupted sleep....

 

Did our CCK drummer sound proof his room? No, the photo show it... the MP give priority to FT/New Singaporean... At the current pace, Singapore is meant for FT... And NS is just a waste of time, it is to protect Singapore, for the sake of FT or new Singaporean! And it disadvantage Singapore against the FT when looking for job.

Policy makers and adminstrators in a country are suposed to be sensitive to the needs and feelings of the people in the country in the order of :- citizens, PRs, temp residents, (FTs/FWs may fall into this cat if they have not been converted to PRs). Priorities have to be given to citizens.

 

Whether a citizen has achieved a lot in life or otherwise, he can voice his concerns when policies dont seem to follow the above.

[KARTer]

Agreed.

 

But we can and should blame the policymakers who allow them to take undue advantage of Singaporeans.

 

And when those policymakers keep getting voted back in by some combination of stupidity, irrationality, fear and apathy of 60.1% of the voting population, then those 60.1% richly deserve the label "Sinkies".

 

Yes, one is entitled to vote for whomever one chooses. And, yes, others are also entitled to criticise their stupidity as they see fit, especially if said stupidity affects *everyone* equally, whether they used their precious voting privilege smartly or, well, stupidly.

Thank you for adding.

 

Discussions, or even debates, are a healthy way of "evaluating" policies even when the participants may not have strong influence on the policies or make changes for the time being. However, those who can vote have a very useful way to do something about what they value, in addition to sharing with others the rationale for the decision on polling day. Naturally, every voter will have to form his own views and make the decision.

 

Btw, in an ideal world, discussions need not be rude etc, but in real life one cant stop others from being rude especially when people do get emotional / passionate, or are just plain rude in their mannerism. (sorry for going OT)

Edited April 18, 2012 by KARTer

[Toothiewabbit]

Agree with you totally on that Sir :) Sometime people get too caught up in the 'argument' about FT that they forget that FT is just as human and humane as you and I. We are all trying to build a better life for our family.

 

If there is a country that can provide me with opportunity, great salary, great environment for my kid to grow up and nuture in, good societal atmosphere, stable and upright government, etc etc, I will not hestitate to move over if I have the capability. What is so wrong about that? Nothing.

 

I see lotsa posting here trashing FT. Honestly I only have one advice for those FT trasher, START TAKING STOCK AND RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN LIFE AND DO NOT BLAME OTHERS (be it Govt or FT or FW) for your underachievement in life.

 

Can't buy that flat? Why not? Your friend can do it why can't you? Isn't because you havent worked hard and smart enough? Your friends who are Singaporeans own their own house...why can't you?

Can't buy that car? Why not? Your colleague who is a Singaporean can buy a car.

Can't put your child in that good school in the past? Why not? Did you try PV or Grassroots? Did you make backup plans?

 

It stinks really hearing all the rantings at times. If those folks are so free complaining about everyone else, why not take the time to think about how can they improve on their life. No one owe anyone a freaking living, let alone a comfortable luxury life.

 

 

/Rantoff

Some of the anti-FT rantings here are not unjustified. Many high networth FTs have changed the complexion of our country. Perhaps we are blind but the reality is that a new elite class is emerging and is dictating the conditions and cost of living in Singapore.

 

Born and bred Singaporeans, work hard and darn hardest still, may no longer be able afford to buy get their decent ride or upgrade to better homes.

 

The issue is not just FTs taking away our jobs or messing with our social norms. It's symtomatic of our Singapore turning into a playground for the rich. Is meritocracy not one of our nation's core value? Based on justice and equality? The influx of these group of FTs had changed the game. Hard work and wits may not guarantee you a better life I am afraid.

 

How many of us now can punch above the raised ceiling of middle class mediocrity and compete with these FTs?

[KARTer]

You might as well pose this exact question to the parents of the NS Sinkie who died on Tuesday and see what will be the reaction you will get from them...

 

If you are super brave and super moronic...

 

You can even asked them ...right in front of their faces and be prepared to take the response...

 

From them..

 

I rest my case...

I didnt honestly like doing NS. But cant deny that its the responsibility, some even say an honour, to go thru it. People who belittle the sacrifice NS men make, should really do what you asked in your post.

Edited April 18, 2012 by KARTer

[KARTer]

repeat

Edited April 18, 2012 by KARTer

[KARTer]

To me, an expat does not take away jobs which locals can do BUT create jobs through knowledge and technology transfer so that locals can be employed and certainly NOT FOR THEIR COMPATRIOTS.

Therefore, such expatriate employees (often MNCs senior management or technical staff) tend to be of high end quality who enjoy perks which locals do not.

However, the term FT has been b------dised to the extent that even locals can easily replace such foreign employees if the wages were right instead of being replaced by such workers as a result of cheeper wages (which may be A LOT to them but not to a local due living costs locals cannot avoid but can be by the foreigner who doesn't have to maintain a roof or family locally).

After reading the exchanges between Gearoil and the rest, I can appreciate their respective positions although I would think Gearoil's view offers a more accurate reflection of locals in general.

Hence, I am not at all surprised if there is a distorted view by the different individuals insofar as expat/FT/FW is concerned. Neither am I surprised if Singapore is a preferred city state by foreigners since it has one of the MOST FLEXIBLE IMMIGRATION POLICIES compared elsewhere around the globe, let alone; in MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.

I believe most Singaporeans are a hardworking lot but at the same time are being shortchanged by the self serving gahmen which begun from the handover by the old guards.

Hence, I don't see how further reiteration of what had been said and thought out by those who benefited or lost out, as a result of our current immigration policies for both investors as well as employees, will make any different to the situation unless:

a) issues raised have been PROPERLY addressed

b) removal of useless bureaucrats takes place in the next BIG ROUND with better replacements

While we welcome qualified and worthy foreigners who add value to this country, we, like citizens of many other countries can never be comfortable with mediocre foreigners INCORRECTLY LABELED AS FOREIGN TALENT(

 

Well said, agreed almost 97% or more.

Edited April 18, 2012 by KARTer

[1fast1]

Some of the anti-FT rantings here are not unjustified. Many high networth FTs have changed the complexion of our country. Perhaps we are blind but the reality is that a new elite class is emerging and is dictating the conditions and cost of living in Singapore.

 

Born and bred Singaporeans, work hard and darn hardest still, may no longer be able afford to buy get their decent ride or upgrade to better homes.

 

The issue is not just FTs taking away our jobs or messing with our social norms. It's symtomatic of our Singapore turning into a playground for the rich. Is meritocracy not one of our nation's core value? Based on justice and equality? The influx of these group of FTs had changed the game. Hard work and wits may not guarantee you a better life I am afraid.

 

How many of us now can punch above the raised ceiling of middle class mediocrity and compete with these FTs?

 

Singapore is well on the way to becoming the Monaco of the East. The parallels are rather stark - for instance, Monaco is essentially a small city-state, undemocratically ruled by a constitutional monarchy, whereas Sg is a small city-state ruled by a single party with a defined grand-patriarch in a lip-service "democracy". Monaco is chock-full of high net worth foreigners of various nationalities who don't pay a dime of tax in contrast to its largely French residents who *do* pay tax, and Sg is fast on the way there, with minimal effective taxation of its foreigners (who don't pay compulsory CPF, either). Monaco does not allow its own citizens to gamble in its famous Monte Carlo casino, ditto with Singapore and its casinos.

 

Essentially, Monaco is a playground for rich foreigners, but the basic infrastructure is kept oiled and running by far less wealthy locals. Sound familiar?

 

Wonder why "they" told us they're aiming for a "Swiss" standard of living, when they should've said "Monaco". Slip of the tongue, perhaps?

 

Look, I really wouldn't give a damn IF we local Singaporeans AND our precious male children weren't called upon to serve this country through blood, sweat and tears, with every possibility of needing to make the ultimate sacrifice for the well-being of the country. If that's part of the bargain, we can damn well expect to be protected, even cosseted by our OWN country! :angry:

Edited April 18, 2012 by Turboflat4

[KARTer]

Not just one FT...

 

But at multiple FT at different times....

 

There's one Korean guy, and two French guy

maybe your persoanl experience is not representative of many others? You are not wrong in citing personal experience, but to build an entire arguement based on the experience of only one individual is stretching it.

[KARTer]

Bro you should probably read my posting before commenting.

 

I do not have a problem with the FT policy. I take full responsibility for my achievement or lack of achievement in life. I dont peep over my shoulders and find people to blame on.

First, lets look at some examples: locals who hold degree/dip have to compete for jobs with outsiders having similar CVs, but the locals lose out simply because the latter accept lower pays which cant support the locals here but more than good enough for the outsiders who support their families back home where cost of living is much lower than that here. Its not a question of the locals are not trying, but rather the policies allow the employers to choose a someone from outsider who's cheaper to hire.

 

Second, many posts which you called 'whining' are actually made by people who have achieved much in life but see the unfairness in the policies, therefore they voice out. Not everyone who 'whin' is a underachiever, it could well be the oppostie... they feel for the fellow citizens who suffer under such unfair policies and speak out for them, do you?

 

(we know you are comfortable with FTs and your life, we are happy for you)

 

 

[Scb11980]

First, lets look at some examples: locals who hold degree/dip have to compete for jobs with outsiders having similar CVs, but the locals lose out simply because the latter accept lower pays which cant support the locals here but more than good enough for the outsiders who support their families back home where cost of living is much lower than that here. Its not a question of the locals are not trying, but rather the policies allow the employers to choose a someone from outsider who's cheaper to hire.

 

Second, many posts which you called 'whining' are actually made by people who have achieved much in life but see the unfairness in the policies, therefore they voice out. Not everyone who 'whin' is a underachiever, it could well be the oppostie... they feel for the fellow citizens who suffer under such unfair policies and speak out for them, do you?

 

(we know you are comfortable with FTs and your life, we are happy for you)

 

 

well written post

no prejudices just straight to the point

[13177]

I always thought bringing in FTs/FWs here is to work in those jobs that locals doesnt want to do, or exchange knowledge and technology transfer that both parties benefited. But from what i see now is, any jobs in sg seems to be "taken over" by FTs/FWs, like cashier, waiter/waitress and even HR position. Are you tellimg me that these jobs locals doesnt want to do, that's why it is now "taken over" by them?

[Vid]

I always thought bringing in FTs/FWs here is to work in those jobs that locals doesnt want to do, or exchange knowledge and technology transfer that both parties benefited. But from what i see now is, any jobs in sg seems to be "taken over" by FTs/FWs, like cashier, waiter/waitress and even HR position. Are you tellimg me that these jobs locals doesnt want to do, that's why it is now "taken over" by them?

 

It is obvious cost is THE major factor. Employers would hire them because they are cheaper. Say, a store assistant's pay is $1000. An ah tiong willing to work for $750. Who would you employ? The answer is so clear.

[Windwaver]

Korean & French, yes, they willing to inpart their skills & experience to you...

 

if you kana a china or pinoy, can get 35% very heng leow....

 

Catch up with a friend which is now a head (his real title, all the senior managers report to him) in an offshore bank and he was complaining to me about FT. Apparently there was a local fellow that quited and guess what, his replacement was a Filipino BECAUSE the hiring manager is a Filipino (another head). That being said, there is a new project taking place and this new chap is assigned to my friend.

 

The problem is this new guy know NUTZ, totally ZERO and is a true manager level. I guess you guys know what I'm driving at.

 

No offense to any Filipinos but most Singaporeans (including me) I know DO NOT mind REAL talents. The problem comes when a FAKE talent takes away a good paying job to a local; not by merit .

 

To those who met good FTs that are willing to impart their knowledge; good for you but there are many more FTs out there that do EXACTLY like in the case of that offshore bank.

[13177]

It is obvious cost is THE major factor. Employers would hire them because they are cheaper. Say, a store assistant's pay is $1000. An ah tiong willing to work for $750. Who would you employ? The answer is so clear.

So should blame the FTs/FWs, the locals, the employer or the garment policy? But how come few years back not like this? You dont really find many FTs/FWs working as cashier and waiter/waitress. But now almost 90% of the service staffs in various shops and restaurant are these people!

 

But i thought these FTs who are working in service line, if they belong to certain countries, according to the MOM law, employer can only allow to apply S-pass for them, which the min salary is $2K?

[13177]

Catch up with a friend which is now a head (his real title, all the senior managers report to him) in an offshore bank and he was complaining to me about FT. Apparently there was a local fellow that quited and guess what, his replacement was a Filipino BECAUSE the hiring manager is a Filipino (another head). That being said, there is a new project taking place and this new chap is assigned to my friend.

 

The problem is this new guy know NUTZ, totally ZERO and is a true manager level. I guess you guys know what I'm driving at.

 

No offense to any Filipinos but most Singaporeans (including me) I know DO NOT mind REAL talents. The problem comes when a FAKE talent takes away a good paying job to a local; not by merit .

 

To those who met good FTs that are willing to impart their knowledge; good for you but there are many more FTs out there that do EXACTLY like in the case of that offshore bank.

Agreed. Actually i also dont mind FTs coming here, but if they are really talented and useful. And not someone that knows nothing and yet thought they are very smart!

[Vid]

So should blame the FTs/FWs, the locals, the employer or the garment policy? But how come few years back not like this? You dont really find many FTs/FWs working as cashier and waiter/waitress. But now almost 90% of the service staffs in various shops and restaurant are these people!

 

But i thought these FTs who are working in service line, if they belong to certain countries, according to the MOM law, employer can only allow to apply S-pass for them, which the min salary is $2K?

 

Singapore is not the "most competitive" economy in whole of asia for nothing. The gahmen "worked hard" to make it such. We begged them to come here, literally. If the floodgate was not opened, you think the situation would be such? The root of the problem was the gahmen. First, they want everybody, included women, to go to work. Then when they started working, they have no time for babies. That cause birthrate to drop dramatically. With inflation, the cost of having a family was terrible. I salute those housewives who quit their job to nurture the next generation. It's a big sacrifice, more so here in Singapore when their contribution is not even recognized. With a dwindling workforce, the gahmen decided they have to import. Importing sportsmen was successful so how hard can it be to import FT/FW? Without much planning to housing and transport infrastructure, to address the shortfall in the workforce and to stay competitive, the rest is what you know, I know.

[13177]

Singapore is not the "most competitive" economy in whole of asia for nothing. The gahmen "worked hard" to make it such. We begged them to come here, literally. If the floodgate was not opened, you think the situation would be such? The root of the problem was the gahmen. First, they want everybody, included women, to go to work. Then when they started working, they have no time for babies. That cause birthrate to drop dramatically. With inflation, the cost of having a family was terrible. I salute those housewives who quit their job to nurture the next generation. It's a big sacrifice, more so here in Singapore when their contribution is not even recognized. With a dwindling workforce, the gahmen decided they have to import. Importing sportsmen was successful so how hard can it be to import FT/FW? Without much planning to housing and transport infrastructure, to address the shortfall in the workforce and to stay competitive, the rest is what you know, I know.

Although seems like many people aware that the root cause is from the garment, but there are still many people dont see it this way. These people still "support" the FTs/FWs policy, and think that locals people their views on FTs/FWs are too petty, narrow minded and bashing.

 

Looks like the garment brillant FTs/FWs policy, wonder when would it be solved or come to a point that locals are "happy"?

Edited April 18, 2012 by 13177

[Mazdaowner]

Our locals are choosy. In the early 60-70s, the construction industry was mainly locals doing all the work with Sum sui women. Then Malaysians came into the industry, Thais, Bangladeshi, and now Indians. You don't see one local worker on the job site doing the menial labor. I have interviewed locals, and all of them, with below par qualifications, ask for high wages. All the lower blue collar jobs, our locals don't want to take on, want to be choosy. Remember the case of the mother with a daughter to feed, when someone offered her a job, she still wanted to be choosy, saying it was too far, pay not enough etc.

 

So should blame the FTs/FWs, the locals, the employer or the garment policy? But how come few years back not like this? You dont really find many FTs/FWs working as cashier and waiter/waitress. But now almost 90% of the service staffs in various shops and restaurant are these people!

 

But i thought these FTs who are working in service line, if they belong to certain countries, according to the MOM law, employer can only allow to apply S-pass for them, which the min salary is $2K?