God versus Science

[Nts0408]

Fully agree. Very well explain about the situation.

[InTheSky]

hi :) God is the one that set the rules of the universe, including gravity. :)

God is omnipotent .. i.e. He is beyond rules. :) All the basis of the universe and beyond are created by God. :)

 

God is beyond light , matters and time.. thus, no heavy rock as you mentioned.

Science proofs God exists.. God does not need science to exist..

 

Just like gravity, like it or not.. it is there.

 

 

Oh.. if God sets the rules.. then mankind will perish in 5 billion yrs (if we can last that long) since our sun will become a Red giant and expand to almost where Earth is. This will be followed later by a supernova.

[Wind30]

hi :) God is the one that set the rules of the universe, including gravity. :)

God is omnipotent .. i.e. He is beyond rules. :) All the basis of the universe and beyond are created by God. :)

 

God is beyond light , matters and time.. thus, no heavy rock as you mentioned.

Science proofs God exists.. God does not need science to exist..

 

Just like gravity, like it or not.. it is there.

 

???? have u answered the question?

 

Can god create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift?? it is a simple yes and no answer. And there is actually one answer that is correct. you have 50% chance of guessing it anyway.

[Somebody]

???? have u answered the question?

 

Can god create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift?? it is a simple yes and no answer. And there is actually one answer that is correct. you have 50% chance of guessing it anyway.

 

if God can/cannot lift a rock that heavy, it may/may not say something about his/her omnipotence/lack of ability, but that doesn't mean God does/does not exist anyways.

 

eg.

 

a boy may claim that an elder man is his father and is all powerful. proving whether the father is or is not all powerful doesn't take away the possibility of the elder man being his father, and neither does it take away the possibility that the elder man not being his father at all. =)

[Wind30]

if God can/cannot lift a rock that heavy, it may/may not say something about his/her omnipotence/lack of ability, but that doesn't mean God does/does not exist anyways.

 

eg.

 

a boy may claim that an elder man is his father and is all powerful. proving whether the father is or is not all powerful doesn't take away the possibility of the elder man being his father, and neither does it take away the possibility that the elder man not being his father at all. =)

 

no. And elder man and father are two independent characteristics, ie you can be an elder but not father and vice versa.

 

however god by definition is all powerful. correct me if I am wrong. ie omnipotentcy is one of the defining characteristics of god. If you are not all powerful, you cannot be god.

 

unless u are saying that god is not all powerful... which is something totally new to me.

 

The question is very simple and I am always surprised that many christians have not thought through this simple problem.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Wind30

[Zyrofillica]

the answer is he will be able to create the biggest heaviest rock that would be impossible for him to carry at his present strength. And then he would simply increase his own strength and carry that rock. Hence he is omnipotent~ lol. would this be a good answer for a chicken or egg first question?

[Somebody]

no. And elder man and father are two independent characteristics, ie you can be an elder but not father and vice versa.

 

however god by definition is all powerful. correct me if I am wrong. ie omnipotentcy is one of the defining characteristics of god. If you are not all powerful, you cannot be god.

 

unless u are saying that god is not all powerful... which is something totally new to me.

 

The question is very simple and I am always surprised that many christians have not thought through this simple problem.

 

"god by definition is all powerful" by who's definition is this? Man's definition? wouldn't that be the same as a young boy referring to this elder man as his father who is as all powerful, from his perception, when elder man, may not be all powerful, and may not even be his father?

 

ps: i'm currently very neutral on religion. i currently stand on a "i do not know enough" position on religion, just so you know i'm not siding any. =)

 

 

[Carer]

"from his perception"

 

you said it. only to the boy he is. and it is hard to bring the same illusion to others.

[Donut]

for those who are non God believers.

 

where does morality comes from?

 

in this whole earth, why is it only Mankind has this sense of morality, while the rest of the animal kingdom doesnt have?

 

where do we know that a murder is wrong, a steal is wrong, a lie is wrong, a rape is wrong?

where do we know that to help someone in need is the right thing to do?

 

all these comes from inside within us. why do we have this sense of morality?

 

And when someone is in a critical emergency situation, why is it that the person always tend to 'pray' to something or someone for help, no matter he believes in religion or not.

 

 

if a person doesn't have this sense of morality, he's no different from an animal. and this already explains the existence of God or a Supreme Being, and the kind of special relationship a man has with God, that no other animal has.

 

 

think about this.......

 

 

 

 

[Nolicense]

for those who are non God believers.

 

where does morality comes from?

 

in this whole earth, why is it only Mankind has this sense of morality, while the rest of the animal kingdom doesnt have?

 

where do we know that a murder is wrong, a steal is wrong, a lie is wrong, a rape is wrong?

where do we know that to help someone in need is the right thing to do?

 

all these comes from inside within us. why do we have this sense of morality?

 

And when someone is in a critical emergency situation, why is it that the person always tend to 'pray' to something or someone for help, no matter he believes in religion or not.

 

 

if a person doesn't have this sense of morality, he's no different from an animal. and this already explains the existence of God or a Supreme Being, and the kind of special relationship a man has with God, that no other animal has.

 

 

think about this.......

 

scientists have shown using MRI the brain patterns of serial killers are different from ordinary humans. they lack emotions. emotions create fear and happiness that allows humans to have a moral construct of good begets good. bad begets bad.

 

bro, your logic tries to equate morality = god

people who don't believe in god = no morality

i just dun understand why you say that?

 

[Amortifiedpenguin]

 

there is a part where the red sea is mistranslated from reed sea. so funny

 

you need help sir. the quran and bible are NOT written in english. just because reed can be mistaken as red doesnt prove anything. thanks for the eye opener, i thought i have seen everything until i saw a bear in a business suit with a midget friend who likes to play in the water. reminds me of saturday morning cartoons.

[Hermitage]

scientists have shown using MRI the brain patterns of serial killers are different from ordinary humans. they lack emotions. emotions create fear and happiness that allows humans to have a moral construct of good begets good. bad begets bad.

 

bro, your logic tries to equate morality = god

people who don't believe in god = no morality

i just dun understand why you say that?

 

In the area of biological science, I do not have a very good understanding. But I think what bro Donut was trying to say is that god put "morality" in all of us. Makes us different from beasts in that way. Does an animal know right from wrong? Understand the statutes of law? NO. Fine...

 

But then, an animal also cannot compose music, do mathematics, talk in different languages, take part in a forum discussion, drive a car, nor can it even start a fire. Why can humans do all of the above and more? Because god put it in us?? I'd like to think so, but I'm afraid that from scientific standpoint, it just cannot be!

 

Although I do believe in god, I feel that things like 'Morality', 'Common Sense', 'Musical Ability', 'Intellect', 'Language/Speach', and even something as simple as 'Starting a Fire', can be attributed to the degree to which the human species has evolved. Our brians are the most highly developed amongst all the species on Earth and that gives us 'Understanding' above all other species with which we share the planet.

 

This deeper understanding & wisdom is ours alone (although some people still behave like animals...just read the complaints folder!), and it's up to us what we are going to do with it. To live in Peace & Harmony with the purpose of expanding our knowledge & protecting the planet? Or Make War on our neighbours with M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction) on our minds ? The human race has the propensity for destruction that is far greater than any other species of animal ever to live!

 

A lion or a tiger could probably kill a human or two, because of it's superior strength. But because of our superior intellect, a human could kill millions with just a command! Now, who is more Evil?? The question now is not whether god put 'morality' in us or not, I think we evolved this way all by ourselves. But we must now ask ourselves Why? Among all the species on the planet, are we the only ones capable of greatness, and yet are concurrently capable of so much evil? Why us and not the lions or the tigers or the dinosaurs? Why did nature chose US? Why the preferential selection?

 

Cannot think of any scientific answer to these question and so...I believe

[Somebody]

for those who are non God believers.

 

where does morality comes from?

 

in this whole earth, why is it only Mankind has this sense of morality, while the rest of the animal kingdom doesnt have?

 

where do we know that a murder is wrong, a steal is wrong, a lie is wrong, a rape is wrong?

where do we know that to help someone in need is the right thing to do?

 

all these comes from inside within us. why do we have this sense of morality?

 

And when someone is in a critical emergency situation, why is it that the person always tend to 'pray' to something or someone for help, no matter he believes in religion or not.

 

 

if a person doesn't have this sense of morality, he's no different from an animal. and this already explains the existence of God or a Supreme Being, and the kind of special relationship a man has with God, that no other animal has.

 

 

think about this.......

 

where does morality come from? that sure is a very good question that all of us should think about. it'd be cool to really know.

 

your argument of, humans have morality, and that means god exist doesn't really make any sense. unless you can prove that animals do not have morality. and that morality can only be placed in humans by a god.

 

"if a person doesn't have this sense of morality, he's no different from an animal. and this already explains the existence of God or a Supreme Being, and the kind of special relationship a man has with God, that no other animal has. " well... dolphins have been known to save human beings, so do they have a sense of moral? are they more "human" than humans who have watched other humans die or even kill other humans? does the fact that there are murderers mean that there is no god?

 

honestly, i think the above, including my questions all cannot prove that God exist or that he doesn't exist.

 

morality may just be in us. that MAY mean that God placed it in us, or it MAY mean that it just exists. =)

 

eg. your boss being a pain in the ass, may mean that God placed him in your life as a pain in the ass, or it may mean his is simply a pain in the ass, or both! =)

 

once again, no offence to ANY religion. i have friends from all religion whom i have tonnes of respect. but i just have to speak out when i see "arguments" that don't make sense.

 

 

[Somebody]

In the area of biological science, I do not have a very good understanding. But I think what bro Donut was trying to say is that god put "morality" in all of us. Makes us different from beasts in that way. Does an animal know right from wrong? Understand the statutes of law? NO. Fine...

 

But then, an animal also cannot compose music, do mathematics, talk in different languages, take part in a forum discussion, drive a car, nor can it even start a fire. Why can humans do all of the above and more? Because god put it in us?? I'd like to think so, but I'm afraid that from scientific standpoint, it just cannot be!

 

Although I do believe in god, I feel that things like 'Morality', 'Common Sense', 'Musical Ability', 'Intellect', 'Language/Speach', and even something as simple as 'Starting a Fire', can be attributed to the degree to which the human species has evolved. Our brians are the most highly developed amongst all the species on Earth and that gives us 'Understanding' above all other species with which we share the planet.

 

This deeper understanding & wisdom is ours alone (although some people still behave like animals...just read the complaints folder!), and it's up to us what we are going to do with it. To live in Peace & Harmony with the purpose of expanding our knowledge & protecting the planet? Or Make War on our neighbours with M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction) on our minds ? The human race has the propensity for destruction that is far greater than any other species of animal ever to live!

 

A lion or a tiger could probably kill a human or two, because of it's superior strength. But because of our superior intellect, a human could kill millions with just a command! Now, who is more Evil?? The question now is not whether god put 'morality' in us or not, I think we evolved this way all by ourselves. But we must now ask ourselves Why? Among all the species on the planet, are we the only ones capable of greatness, and yet are concurrently capable of so much evil? Why us and not the lions or the tigers or the dinosaurs? Why did nature chose US? Why the preferential selection?

 

Cannot think of any scientific answer to these question and so...I believe

 

salute! cannot disagree with you. =) you believe. simple.

 

i for disagree with the previous poster as you have indicated, that animals do have "morals". some care for their young. penguins live with their partners for LIFE. dolphins save humans. etc etc etc.

 

humans may be able to kill animals at the touch of a button. but do not forget, cockroaches have survived for just as long if not longer than human beings. doesn't that in some sense make cockroaches superior? sharks can sense a drop of blood in an ocean from miles away. can a human? i've watched discovery channel enough to know how superior many animals are as compared to humans in many areas.

 

to summarize, i do not think that animals are superior, but neither do i think that humans are. please have an open mind and know that we are just different beings. =)

 

ps. maybe animals are looking at us and thinking we are retards spending out sunday discussing stuff like that. hahaha =) enjoy your sunday!

 

[Hermitage]

salute! cannot disagree with you. =) you believe. simple.

 

i for disagree with the previous poster as you have indicated, that animals do have "morals". some care for their young. penguins live with their partners for LIFE. dolphins save humans. etc etc etc.

 

humans may be able to kill animals at the touch of a button. but do not forget, cockroaches have survived for just as long if not longer than human beings. doesn't that in some sense make cockroaches superior? sharks can sense a drop of blood in an ocean from miles away. can a human? i've watched discovery channel enough to know how superior many animals are as compared to humans in many areas.

 

to summarize, i do not think that animals are superior, but neither do i think that humans are. please have an open mind and know that we are just different beings. =)

 

ps. maybe animals are looking at us and thinking we are retards spending out sunday discussing stuff like that. hahaha =) enjoy your sunday!

 

 

Heh Heh! Yep, in terms of physical prowess, humans are as weak as can be! Thanks for posting your views! From that, I can see that all manner of livings things are somewhat equal in terms of strengths & weaknesses. We are so much better off than a little sparrow, hopping around looking for scraps of food, but can we FLY using nothing but the basic structure of our bodies?? Something as basic as that for a sparrow is totally impossible for us! This 'balance' in nature is also hard to attribute purely to science. Science can show, to a certain extent, how a bird took to the air, but cannot quite explain this harmony, this 'balance' we see each & every day.

 

See also the concept of 'The Divine Proportion'.

[Somebody]

Heh Heh! Yep, in terms of physical prowess, humans are as weak as can be! Thanks for posting your views! From that, I can see that all manner of livings things are somewhat equal in terms of strengths & weaknesses. We are so much better off than a little sparrow, hopping around looking for scraps of food, but can we FLY using nothing but the basic structure of our bodies?? Something as basic as that for a sparrow is totally impossible for us! This 'balance' in nature is also hard to attribute purely to science. Science can show, to a certain extent, how a bird took to the air, but cannot quite explain this harmony, this 'balance' we see each & every day.

 

See also the concept of 'The Divine Proportion'.

 

=) cool. i agree that this balance is hard to attribute purely to science. and to some science is just an observation of nature or an observation of the design of god, depending on their faith.

 

knowing how our ecosystem stays in balance doesn't mean that god doesn't esist. but knowing how complicated it is doesn't necessarily mean that god exist.

 

being the "most knowledgeable" and understand how "everything" works doesn't necessarily mean that god doesn't exist. as we could simply be observing his design. but that doesn't mean that god exists either.

 

just a faith and believe i guess. =) good chatting w ya.

[Nolicense]

you need help sir. the quran and bible are NOT written in english. just because reed can be mistaken as red doesnt prove anything. thanks for the eye opener, i thought i have seen everything until i saw a bear in a business suit with a midget friend who likes to play in the water. reminds me of saturday morning cartoons.

 

the problem is with translation. only the quran was writtne in one languange. bible written in greek n latin n aremic or n hebrew or what.. i don't care if it was red or reed. everyone wants to give their version. couldn't care less.

they just want to prove they are right.

 

i don't need help. you guys are the ones who need help to prove your religions. i don't care.

[Scion]

although i'm a supporter of science, evidence, analysis, etc.. but i have to admit that far too many things that science cannot explain [sly]

 

eg i told my mum that all the ten thousand numbers (from 0000 to 9999) have the same probability of appearing in 4D, so there's no such thing as red number, black number, swee number, ugly number [sly]

 

then she asks me how come some numbers such as 7321 keeps coming out? some numbers never appear once since 4D started 20+ years ago.... i couldn't answer her [sly]