March 2010 Second Open Bidding Exercise For Certificates Of

[Neoman]

To those successful bidders for this round of COE that took a 10 car year loan, they should begin to start praying for job stability for the next 10 years.

 

The repossesstion business will see a growth in the coming years.

 

May I know why so? Sorry still new in this area.

[Leepee]

Wah...tomorrow those sitting on fence...better go and buy their VW at the old prices.

Jap brand sure up up and away.

I think many PI and AD will ask for top up soon. Good luck to those on NON-guarantee COE biddings. The AD got hold of your hands tight now....you reject you will nto get your car. You accept, you will be paying more for the same car when you booked it. If the top up is $5k....its like losing a high-end sound system or a set of good rims and tyres. In fact $5000 is like 1.5 years of petrol for normal small cars!!

The pain will be felt for sure by many when the AD starts their phone calls tomorrow onwards!

 

I hope those who bought from PI will not get the wrong end of the deal......PI are notorious when its comes to top-up patterns!

 

So next round of COE will be $50k?

WOW!

Edited March 24, 2010 by Leepee

[Mandan]

Phew! Thnk god i got mine successfully, Already had to pay more at e start when price increased, thus was on Gtd COE bidding..

[Kar_lover]

Wah...tomorrow those sitting on fence...better go and buy their VW at the old prices.

Jap brand sure up up and away.

 

 

So next round of COE will be $50k?

WOW!

 

The VW promo ends today.

 

I dun tink it will reach $50k la....singaporean are car crazy but not mad. Currently it is said that avg car in singapore is 4yrs old. high coe prob means ppl will keep their cars longer....car accessories shops may start to feel the squeeze, less new cars = less mods/accessories bought

[Pckwpckw]

Oh my goodness, many ppl gonna tell u that ur statement is wrong....

 

Ur COE depreciates to ZERO in 10 years. SO $1 COE depreciate 10cents a year, $30,000 COE depreciates $3,000 a year. Add it to your car depreciation, lets say $5,000 a year, and he difference is $5000.10/year and $8,000/year. So how can u say high COE is better? Don't forget with high COE, u also pay more upfront for the car and not to mention more interest as well as u need to loan more. So Pay More (for COE) + Pay More (higher interest) + Lose more (higher depreciation) = how can this be call a good thing.

 

The only way ur statement is correct if u buy a given car at a fixed price with guarateed COE and the COE skyrockets - then ur car will have better paper/scrap value (especially in the ealier years).

 

Or perhaps your meanins is that COE is the sign of good times hence when COE is high it means economy is high. Well, dat is only half or quarter true cos COE is a heavily manipulated economy "barometer" as it is controlled by govt. Property and rental prices are a better indicator though it also contains some element of govt controls but not like COE where they suddenly announce big cut in quota. Economic cycles are short, upswings (i dun tink the current turnaround is "fantastic" as you say) are followed by downswings within a few tears, but once pay for that high COE & take up the high loan, ur depreciation & interest costs are locked in.

Why you still take your effort to explain to such a brainless people.

[Kar_lover]

Phew! Thnk god i got mine successfully, Already had to pay more at e start when price increased, thus was on Gtd COE bidding..

 

I tot u said yours was not guaranteed? Btw, wat did u buy? How much did u pay?

[Wlyuan]

I am furious really.

 

I can understand COE going up - makes sense that congestion tax should be levied on OWNERSHIP. It makes sense.

 

But, the Additional Registration Fee is still at 100% , plus excise duty, that is 120% in total.

 

We need high taxes because we have little road space, yes, that I understand, however, shouldn't the taxes be levied on OWNERSHIP instead of the VALUE of the car?

 

Just take for example - the Nissan Cefiro causes as much , or even much more congestion than say, a Volkswagen Golf GTI. Why then is the ARF absolute tax amount of tax so high for the volkswagen Golf? Why? because it has a better engine, better suspension etc. It's value is higher and thus, the ARF is higher. (I might be wrong about the specifics here but you get the idea)

 

i.e. The ARF distorts the tax such that people are actually paying tax for better leather, better suspension or what have you. NOT for the amount of congestion caused.

 

I really do not understand the system and I am really quite furious. I just needed to vent some anger here. :(

Edited March 24, 2010 by Wlyuan

[Ferraricalifornia]

I am furious really.

 

I can understand COE going up - makes sense that congestion tax should be levied on OWNERSHIP. It makes sense.

 

But, the Additional Registration Fee is still at 100% , plus excise duty, that is 120% in total.

 

We need high taxes because we have little road space, yes, that I understand, however, shouldn't the taxes be levied on OWNERSHIP instead of the VALUE of the car?

 

Just take for example - the Nissan Cefiro causes as much , or even much more congestion than say, a Volkswagen Golf GTI. Why then is the ARF absolute tax amount of tax so high for the volkswagen Golf? Why? because it has a better engine, better suspension etc. It's value is higher and thus, the ARF is higher. (I might be wrong about the specifics here but you get the idea)

 

i.e. The ARF distorts the tax such that people are actually paying tax for better leather, better suspension or what have you. NOT for the amount of congestion caused.

 

I really do not understand the system and I am really quite furious. I just needed to vent some anger here. :(

 

 

that's why the smartest of car dealers will import the bare basic spec of a particular car model,

 

and at the same time, import the additional car accessories be it from the factory or aftermarket, then fit them on the bare basic spec car...

 

in that way, they can import at lower OMV, thus incurring lower ARF, GST and Custom Duty taxes...

 

and pass on these savings to customers...

 

so in the end,

 

car has low OMV, but stuff full of features...

 

best of both worlds!!

[Leepee]

I share ur views too. I too wants a high specs car for it's real worth.

The ARF should be reworked into the coe part.

This way we can drive cars with more safety and features. And paying the ownership tax thru Coe and road tax and erp.

 

 

[Kar_lover]

I am furious really.

 

I can understand COE going up - makes sense that congestion tax should be levied on OWNERSHIP. It makes sense.

 

But, the Additional Registration Fee is still at 100% , plus excise duty, that is 120% in total.

 

We need high taxes because we have little road space, yes, that I understand, however, shouldn't the taxes be levied on OWNERSHIP instead of the VALUE of the car?

 

Just take for example - the Nissan Cefiro causes as much , or even much more congestion than say, a Volkswagen Golf GTI. Why then is the ARF absolute tax amount of tax so high for the volkswagen Golf? Why? because it has a better engine, better suspension etc. It's value is higher and thus, the ARF is higher. (I might be wrong about the specifics here but you get the idea)

 

i.e. The ARF distorts the tax such that people are actually paying tax for better leather, better suspension or what have you. NOT for the amount of congestion caused.

 

I really do not understand the system and I am really quite furious. I just needed to vent some anger here. :(

 

 

No, Govt should actually control USAGE of cars. The mere owning of a car doesn't cause (traffic) congestion. It is the using of it. As i ve said before in other threads, govt should increase COE so that COE price drops and ppl have realistic chance of owning a car. But by all means increase petrol tax, increase ERP rates, build more gantries, i.e. make USING the cars more expensive so ppl dun drive unnecessarily or ppl will manage their travel better, avoiding the congested areas during peak hours, etc. For businesses that require transport, allow them to claim relief from their income tax (or use a system similar to jobs credit and give back to the companies who then give back to the employees). High COEs "kills" EVERYONE indiscriminately - the light road user is penalised the same as the heavy road user, i.e. the light user is "subsidising" the heavy user.

 

[Wlyuan]

Yes, I do agree that we need to tax usage.

 

Increase the variable cost of owning a car - after all, the price of the car is a sunk cost, and what do we learn about sunk costs in school? Ignore them in decision making! Hence, people, after spending a billion dollars on a car, will keep using and using and using it. The billion dollars have already been spent anyway!

 

The problem with increasing fuel price is that it's not visible - it does not 'hurt' as much as the 'diii' sound of the ERP gantry. I agree that they should build more ERP gantries - it does decrease my usage of certain roads - not to mention it can be varied easily.

 

But for now, the government wont allow for the fixed costs to go down - ppl will rush to buy cars. So why not just let COE increase, but reduce the ARF. that way, the low end cars will still maintain their price points (act as a barrier to entry) , but if you want to upgrade from there, u won't be charged exorbitantly. If i need to buy a car, I will still buy a car- say toyota or some entry level car - and still cause congestion. I just dont see why , if u want to upgrade to a nicer looking car, you'd still be taxed even more. That is what I am furious about.

 

Hongkong has a road area that is much lesser than Singapore, and yet, their tax structure (which is high) is not as high as Singapore. I need to do some research on this, but I was comparing price points between HK and Singapore and I was really quite shocked at the prices of our cars...

 

I have a strong, strong feeling that Singaporeans are just really used to high prices, and not realizing the necessity of certain taxes..

Edited March 24, 2010 by Wlyuan

[Wlyuan]

Not to mention, if we look at Singapore, we are planned much more like Los Angeles than say, a pedestrian city like Manhattan. And guess what, Los Angeles is a car-centric city!

 

Singapore is not made to be a pedestrian city even though we want to be one- we have so many roads everywhere , our buildings are not densely built, and well, expressways abound.

 

My issue is this - we seem to be caught in between - high prices of individual transport (cars) and yet, a car-centric planned city. Now, tell me there isn't something weird going on there.

 

And come on - INCREASE THE OPERATING HOURS OF MRT.

 

Ok, now i will need to go back to doing my homework , my frustration has been vented. Haha.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Wlyuan

[Kar_lover]

But for now, the government wont allow for the fixed costs to go down - ppl will rush to buy cars. So why not just let COE increase, but reduce the ARF. that way, the low end cars will still maintain their price points (act as a barrier to entry) , but if you want to upgrade from there, u won't be charged exorbitantly. If i need to buy a car, I will still buy a car- say toyota or some entry level car - and still cause congestion. I just dont see why , if u want to upgrade to a nicer looking car, you'd still be taxed even more. That is what I am furious about.

 

Hongkong has a road area that is much lesser than Singapore, and yet, their tax structure (which is high) is not as high as Singapore. I need to do some research on this, but I was comparing price points between HK and Singapore and I was really quite shocked at the prices of our cars...

 

I have a strong, strong feeling that Singaporeans are just really used to high prices, and not realizing the necessity of certain taxes..

 

Sorry, i dun know wat ARF is. Can someon tell me how car price is built up? I only know it starts with OMV and then there are some taxes here and there and then the ARF and(or?) PARF (i ve no idea wad this is and then final component is of cos the COE. Thing is we commonly talk about OMV and COE, hardly hear anyone talk abt taxes/ARF/PARF.

[Kar_lover]

Why you still take your effort to explain to such a brainless people.

 

sigh...buying a car is a very big step and in singapore, a very complicated thing. i m certainly nowhere near a guru, but wat little i can share, i would like to. When i was starting out also have a lot of misconceptions so i m just trying to help others make less mistakes or at least not so easy get conned by SEs....

[Wlyuan]

Hey, this is how tax on cars are done in Sg:

 

Open market value OMV (price of car when it reaches SG shore - this is about the price u can get in say US roughly)

+ $140 (Registration Fee)

+ 100% of OMV (Additional Registration Fee)

+ 20% of OMV (Excise duty)

+ Certificate of Entitlement (COE)

+ Insurance / commision / additional

______________

= Final Price in Singapore

 

http://www.lta.gov.sg/motoring_matters/ind...otoring_erp.htm

 

So as you can see, our car prices are so high because of (100% ARF+20%Excise) 120% of OMV. It effectively doubles the prices here from OMV.

 

COE will consitute a large % only if ur OMV is low (ie if u buy toyota, the COE will be a large %. But if u buy an Audi, because ur OMV is so high already, COE will constitute a smaller percentage)

 

All in all, with COE, the price of a car here is roughly 3x the OMV. (ie, u buy one car here, can go to the states and buy 2.5-3x)

 

I am saying, decrease the ARF , but let COE rise. That way, the entry level cars will remain at the same price point as it is now (act as a barrier of entry to owning a car), but reduce ARF.

 

I refuse to get taxed 120% for installing leather seats and a good suspension system. :)

 

 

 

[Kar_lover]

Hey, this is how tax on cars are done in Sg:

 

Open market value OMV (price of car when it reaches SG shore - this is about the price u can get in say US roughly)

+ $140 (Registration Fee)

+ 100% of OMV (Additional Registration Fee)

+ 20% of OMV (Excise duty)

+ Certificate of Entitlement (COE)

+ Insurance / commision / additional

______________

= Final Price in Singapore

 

http://www.lta.gov.sg/motoring_matters/ind...otoring_erp.htm

 

So as you can see, our car prices are so high because of (100% ARF+20%Excise) 120% of OMV. It effectively doubles the prices here from OMV.

 

COE will consitute a large % only if ur OMV is low (ie if u buy toyota, the COE will be a large %. But if u buy an Audi, because ur OMV is so high already, COE will constitute a smaller percentage)

 

All in all, with COE, the price of a car here is roughly 3x the OMV. (ie, u buy one car here, can go to the states and buy 2.5-3x)

 

I am saying, decrease the ARF , but let COE rise. That way, the entry level cars will remain at the same price point as it is now (act as a barrier of entry to owning a car), but reduce ARF.

 

I refuse to get taxed 120% for installing leather seats and a good suspension system. :)

 

Hmmm....but the figures dun add up leh...

 

eg.

Forte Koup selling at $64k (when COE was $20k), OMV $15k

ARF & Excise = $18k

Total before COE (reg fee too small) = $33k (insurance cost excluded as it is not part of the quoted car price due to variation depending on driver's profile)

Based on $20k COE before todays results, total = $53k but yet they sell at $64k which gives them an additional $11k buffer. Then why cannot bid higher for COE and need us to top up? Based on ur calculation they can bid even up to $30k COE. I dun tink they profit $10k for each car sale right?

 

 

[Mandan]

I tot u said yours was not guaranteed? Btw, wat did u buy? How much did u pay?

 

I made a mistake, purchased when kia increased their prices due to prevailing increase in COE, thus was on Gtd COE bidding. booked Koup in March@ $66 999, car should arrive in may with coe successful now

[Wlyuan]

Please go here:

 

http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/publish/onem...Cost_Update.pdf

 

to see the PDF of how the individual cars work with all the taxes.

 

This is a good document to give you an idea of WHAT TAX YOU ARE PAYING FOR AND HOW MUCH YOU ARE PAYING.

 

And the more i look at the taxes and prices the more likely im going to have a seizure and get high blood pressure.

 

I got the PDF from here:

http://www.lta.gov.sg/motoring_matters/index_motoring_vo.htm