News: Poly student tries to bribe policemen with $20

[The_Bear]

I understand your bone of contention. the problem here is that there is a disconnect, a huge one at that. whilst conventional logic persuades us that one ought to be innocent till proven guilty, the modus operandi of the said agency seems to endorse a different rationale. for all the draconian and I would think presumptive measures, is that not prejudgment in essence? notice I coined the term conventional logic.

 

Agree with your observation in general. While it is the Police's SOP to carry out certain actions, citizens have the right to refuse, within reasonable confines. If I am sitting at East Coast Park at 4 am alone, the police can question me why am I there. While I don't really need to tell them the truth, telling them something would allow me to continue sitting there (why I want to do that is another thing). They might request that I don't hang around there because it is dangerous but here is where I don't have to comply. Just tell them I note what they say, thank you but I will like to continue sitting here works just fine. Telling them to fcuk off might not be.

 

Back to our case, if the boy has asked politely that his particulars not be recorded, what would the policeman have done? As far as I am concern, if the IC checks out, then the boy's identity has been verified. If the policeman needs further information, he can always get it from the reception, as they are required to keep a record of visitors to the hotel. This is an issue between the enforcement agency and the hotel. As for the girl, her status can be verified with a simple check on her passport or immigration documents, if she is carrying it.

 

In reality, Singaporeans (I don't know about othe countries) tend to be more co-operative with the police as long as things are cordial. On the other hand, the authorities seems to take advantage of this situation and some of them have elevated themselves beyond citizens questioning their actions. These are the ones who will abuse their power and make the situation more difficult for a non-compliance individual. To be safe, most of us tend to give in, to avoid further aggravating the matter.

[Darryn]

Why should he tell you his details? Who are you?

 

They are the police and are granted the rights/authority to question or worse case scenario handcuff you back to the police station if they suspect you are doing any illegal activities. Like the newspaper report, a PRC man and woman were found in a budget hotel (mind you, not RWS or MBS). What kind of affiliations does this kind of places contributes? A note to point out is that the woman is not a local. Could she be a illegal immigrant? Or even worse, a prostitute.

 

Any company or association will have their own SOP. The recording of particulars is mostly focused on having something to record while being on shift or while performing certain duties. Secondly, it will also help them by making it easier for them to locate you in the event of any situation. (Eg. the budget hotel was found out to be harbouring many fugitives from other countries) They can call you, visit you just to ask a few routine questions - Did you see anything suspicious?

 

If you don't like the current SOP that our police have, then goodbye. Find one country that doesn't do that.

 

If the police can explain why I am suspected of doing something illegal (hint - renting a room to fark my girlfriend is not good enough) then fair enough. By the same token, they can check IC / WP / EP to verify that I am in the country legally, but that does not mean they need to record. Record simply because I fark my girlfriend? Sorry not a good enough reason - they need more than that.

 

Simply because they are the police does not mean they need to have that info - only if they can justify why and how they need it.

 

You ask me "who am I"? well I ask you back, who are the police and what right do they have when I am not doing anything wrong?

 

[Darryn]

Agree with your observation in general. While it is the Police's SOP to carry out certain actions, citizens have the right to refuse, within reasonable confines. If I am sitting at East Coast Park at 4 am alone, the police can question me why am I there. While I don't really need to tell them the truth, telling them something would allow me to continue sitting there (why I want to do that is another thing). They might request that I don't hang around there because it is dangerous but here is where I don't have to comply. Just tell them I note what they say, thank you but I will like to continue sitting here works just fine. Telling them to fcuk off might not be.

 

Back to our case, if the boy has asked politely that his particulars not be recorded, what would the policeman have done? As far as I am concern, if the IC checks out, then the boy's identity has been verified. If the policeman needs further information, he can always get it from the reception, as they are required to keep a record of visitors to the hotel. This is an issue between the enforcement agency and the hotel. As for the girl, her status can be verified with a simple check on her passport or immigration documents, if she is carrying it.

 

In reality, Singaporeans (I don't know about othe countries) tend to be more co-operative with the police as long as things are cordial. On the other hand, the authorities seems to take advantage of this situation and some of them have elevated themselves beyond citizens questioning their actions. These are the ones who will abuse their power and make the situation more difficult for a non-compliance individual. To be safe, most of us tend to give in, to avoid further aggravating the matter.

 

In general, the time to argue the point is never on the spot with the policeman. Just quietly comply and take it up later.

 

The problem is that due to certain laws here, as well as judicial support the police really do have the power to arrest you on a whim, and you have little recourse. Heck - you can be held for how long before you even get to see a lawyer?

 

But I would say, no matter what, in every single situation be polite and courteous. Even if you are refusing to comply you don't need to be rude. Being rude or aggressive just gives the police a genuine justification to act that they may not have had before.

[Happily1986]

In reality, Singaporeans (I don't know about othe countries) tend to be more co-operative with the police as long as things are cordial. On the other hand, the authorities seems to take advantage of this situation and some of them have elevated themselves beyond citizens questioning their actions. These are the ones who will abuse their power and make the situation more difficult for a non-compliance individual. To be safe, most of us tend to give in, to avoid further aggravating the matter.

 

sadly it does seem that they are capitalising on our compliant nature.

 

now if the guards are suppose to watch over us, who is going to watch over the guards?

 

I don't look favourably upon gazetting a supposed third party and/or neutral entity to do the job of guarding the guards. the inherent nature of the assymetric distribution of power is bound to cause trouble down the road. I think a more tenable approach is a loopback check and balance relationship. in a nutshell, the watched or the people will serve as the entity to watch over the "guards". the natural tussle of power will see to it that a more even power relations is created.

[The_Bear]

sadly it does seem that they are capitalising on our compliant nature.

 

now if the guards are suppose to watch over us, who is going to watch over the guards?

 

I don't look favourably upon gazetting a supposed third party and/or neutral entity to do the job of guarding the guards. the inherent nature of the assymetric distribution of power is bound to cause trouble down the road. I think a more tenable approach is a loopback check and balance relationship. in a nutshell, the watched or the people will serve as the entity to watch over the "guards". the natural tussle of power will see to it that a more even power relations is created.

See Minister, Mentor

[Little_prince]

you r not a Singaporean?? [hur] .... who clarified to you that prostitution is illegal in singapore???

 

dun like that lah. he havent even passed o level yet

[The_Bear]

dun like that lah. he havent even passed o level yet

 

you are so mean

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ingful.

[PPeripheraL]

if all policeman is like you, changi prison would have expanded to cluster D, E, F, or even Z liao....

 

a PRC couple found in budget hotel means illegal?? then why not closing down all budget hotel?? whether she is illegal immigrant or not, nobody know, it was not reported... and worst still, lady found at budget hotel means prostitute?? [laugh] your teacher told you that izzit??

 

You must be too young to undestand things. take a look at budget hotel, you will see tourists, local couples and many types of people... oh yah, heng you didnt caught me hanging around with my friends during worldcup at those so call budget hotel... otherwise, you may think that we were having some kind of gay orgy... [laugh]

I didn't say confirm, I say "could be" if you had read my post carefully. And I wrote "suspect" which by cambridge definition means "to think that someone has committed a crime or done something wrong" It doesn't have to be, but might be. That's why they record particulars just in the event their suspicion is true.

[PPeripheraL]

If the police can explain why I am suspected of doing something illegal (hint - renting a room to fark my girlfriend is not good enough) then fair enough. By the same token, they can check IC / WP / EP to verify that I am in the country legally, but that does not mean they need to record. Record simply because I fark my girlfriend? Sorry not a good enough reason - they need more than that.

 

Simply because they are the police does not mean they need to have that info - only if they can justify why and how they need it.

 

You ask me "who am I"? well I ask you back, who are the police and what right do they have when I am not doing anything wrong?

I have no idea if you just trying to be stubborn or plain stupidity when asking "Who are the police?" I'm sure a 8 year old kid would also know. But anyway, here is the definition from cambridge: "the official organization that is responsible for protecting people and property, making people obey the law, finding out about and solving crime, and catching people who have committed a crime"

 

And according to Singapore's Police Force Act and The Law Society of Singapore, I shall just give a few examples, they have to right to apprehend you back to the police station for question, recording of information and the duty to prevent crime.

 

Firstly due to the place the couple was in (you can blame stereotypes for all I care) they can suspect crime and having a duty to prevent it they will question/investigate etc. As you know all police officer will say "If there is a need, we will request for your assistance" So having said that, how will they request for your assistance if they doesn't have a record or etc?

 

You can argue here for all you like, after all there are many trolls on the internet. If you don't like it, jolly well say it to the officer that you refuse to provide any particulars at all and maybe you can resist arrest as well.

 

Cheers.

[PPeripheraL]

Prostitution is not illegal in SG, soliciting is. Why do you think there are so many escort agencies ? Got local and international to choose.

Yep, that's why I said there are some legal but some who are illegal and using illegal immigrants as well.

[Tigershark1976]

I didn't say confirm, I say "could be" if you had read my post carefully. And I wrote "suspect" which by cambridge definition means "to think that someone has committed a crime or done something wrong" It doesn't have to be, but might be. That's why they record particulars just in the event their suspicion is true.

 

kns, dont tell me what is suspect, you know the meaning of suspect but yet you can post this kind of rubbish?? you suspect based on what?? just because the lady is a PRC? both of them are not local? they were found at budget hotel??? and your conclusion is, she is probably a prostitute?? knn... like that if i saw you are primary school, can say that you are suspected to rape the pupils there, and you also intended to blow up the school???

[Tigershark1976]

dun like that lah. he havent even passed o level yet

 

 

wah lan.. i tot im sacastic enof.... compare to you... haiz... you win liao [laugh]

[PPeripheraL]

kns, dont tell me what is suspect, you know the meaning of suspect but yet you can post this kind of rubbish?? you suspect based on what?? just because the lady is a PRC? both of them are not local? they were found at budget hotel??? and your conclusion is, she is probably a prostitute?? knn... like that if i saw you are primary school, can say that you are suspected to rape the pupils there, and you also intended to blow up the school???

If you can't understand that people can have different viewpoints/ tolerance level etc then I see no point talking at all.

 

Just like how some people who see a man wearing sunglasses/cap/and a huge bulky bag in the train = terrorist? When actually he just came home from sentosa.

 

Also, I gave other conclusions such as illegal immigrant etc. But all these conclusions I suggested was due to the events that was occuring. If a couple alone at MBS, you think I would have suspected the same conclusion? Is was not a single event, but rather a chain of events that led to my probable conclusion.

 

And yes, you can suspect a man at primary school = blow up etc, but is your reasoning valid? Maybe you should try thinking in the shoe of a policeman instead.

 

And no, I'm not related to any policeman but rather trying to deduce of what could be happening in the event at the point of time and what was going that the student have to resort to bribing the policeman.

[Tigershark1976]

If you can't understand that people can have different viewpoints/ tolerance level etc then I see no point talking at all.

of cos, everyone have their tolerance level/ different viewpoints. but the way you view things is damn weird... and if you see no point talking, I dont undestand why are you still replying to me..

 

Just like how some people who see a man wearing sunglasses/cap/and a huge bulky bag in the train = terrorist? When actually he just came home from sentosa.

You didnt get it izzit?? you are the 1 who like to assume, a lady in budget hotel and you call her prostitute... now you give such example... dont you think that you are shooting at your own foot??

 

 

Also, I gave other conclusions such as illegal immigrant etc. But all these conclusions I suggested was due to the events that was occuring. If a couple alone at MBS, you think I would have suspected the same conclusion? Is was not a single event, but rather a chain of events that led to my probable conclusion.

now you come again... like you mention in your last sentence, a man wearing sunglasses/cap/and a huge bulky bag in the train = terrorist? what the problem of a man and women in budget hotel??? cant they be couple? a chain of events that led to your probable conclusion?? thats why i said, you should come out more and not hidding behind your pc... go to some of the budget hotel and you will see more, hear more and undestand more.... budget hotel doesnt means prostitution.

 

 

And yes, you can suspect a man at primary school = blow up etc, but is your reasoning valid? Maybe you should try thinking in the shoe of a policeman instead.

valid reasoning is my point that i use to shoot your comment. like i said thousand times, a PRC gal in budget hotel = prostitute??? dont you think its noncense???.. and the above example of a man found at school is just to reflect the way you suspect... color]

 

And no, I'm not related to any policeman but rather trying to deduce of what could be happening in the event at the point of time and what was going that the student have to resort to bribing the policeman.

 

Me too... im not a policeman either, what i said is just that the guy is stupid, just let the policeman record what he want to record and case close, there is no need to bribe... but all the noncense comments come... some says prositution is illegal, some says the lady is a prostitute...

Edited June 22, 2011 by Tigershark1976