Tan Jee Say: S$500k is enough for me

[Cerano]

Liek I said

"Sadly, it appears you have no idea of what either PMETs or engineering means"

 

 

Please enlighten me then

[Cerano]

Sort of.. but not too much also..

 

Take it this way.. when people complain salaries low.. Government step in to set minimum salaries.. and so what happen is companies will feel a lot more pressure and less competitive due to need to pay higher salaries to people. Companies will than think of cutting manpower to cut down manpower cost and thus more people will not be able to get job. ( example of populist policy )

 

Another example is when people unemployed and they need survive, people complain to government to do something about the unemployment. Government step in and set safety net.. those that perhaps give a bit of allowance for those people to survive and meanwhile they could continue go find job. This may backfire and cause some people to take easy way out.. especially those in lower salaries ranges... and that harm economy in long run as when more people take easy way out = more $ needed to spend on those people who is unemployed.. ( another example of populist policy )

 

These 2 are just examples only..

 

thats populist policy which is left-wing.

 

now they're doing the opposite by helping businesses and keeping Singapore relevant at the expense of us. The only populist development of late is the recent increase in S-pass criteria during the NDR.

 

p.s. we dont have a minimum wage policy yet

[Rb1623m]

Manufacturing is not simply getting a group of production workers to make the products. You need to look at the entire supply chain. Right from production planning, raw material suppliers, logistics of moving the raw materials in, quality systems, production, QC testing, warehousing, logistics of moving the products to customers (including air and sea transportation), aftersales customer or technical service, etc. Don't forget about the support staffs, such as HR, Finance, IT, etc.

 

Moving manufacturing out of Singapore and focus on service industry is going to affect many SMEs and locals. It is not as simple as moving production out.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Rb1623m

[Yewheng]

thats populist policy which is left-wing.

 

now they're doing the opposite by helping businesses and keeping Singapore relevant at the expense of us. The only populist development of late is the recent increase in S-pass criteria during the NDR.

 

p.s. we dont have a minimum wage policy yet

 

Yeah.. that's why I say for example only.. so being populist doesn't mean it is good government and president..

[Cerano]

Yeah.. that's why I say for example only.. so being populist doesn't mean it is good government and president..

 

A good government balances the two, and from TJS's proposals you can tell he has very carefully considered both sides without sacrificing too much of either.

 

Problem is now the big bosses driving Mercedes or BMWs dont even want to give up their wealth after being the primary beneficiary of policies at the expense of the middle class . Who is so altruistic to do that?

[Cerano]

Manufacturing is not simply getting a group of production workers to make the products. You need to look at the entire supply chain. Right from production planning, raw material suppliers, logistics of moving the raw materials in, quality systems, production, QC testing, warehousing, logistics of moving the prodction to customers (including air and sea transportation), aftersales customer or technical service, etc. Don't forget about the support staffs, such as HR, Finance, IT, etc.

 

Moving manufacturing out of Singapore and focus on service industry is going to affect many SMEs and locals. It is not as simple as moving production out.

 

all of which China and Taiwan are better than us.

[Rb1623m]

all of which China and Taiwan are better than us.

The point of contention here is someone proposed moving manufacturing out of Singapore and focus on service industry, not which country is good in manufacturing.

 

Besides, those MNCs wanting to move out of Singapore would have moved since the 90's. Our EDB is offerring incentives to make Singapore attractive and thus helping to keep the locals going.

 

My point is the proposal put forth is not feasible as you need to look at the entire supply chain as there are too many at stake in the supply chain, not just the manufacturing activities.

 

[Scoots]

all of which China and Taiwan are better than us.

 

So are you advocating that such indutries should be phased out?

 

Hong Kong and New York are ahead in SIngapore in the financial sector, let's phase that out too.

We're definitely no weapons maker or developer by a long shot ... so let's shut down all the DSTA and STEngineering groups too...

We've been hearing complaints about Singapore service standards definitely not up to par when measured against countries like Japan. So lets phases out all the F&B and hospitality industry while we're at it

So I'd guess thae leaves us all applying for a job in Changi Airport since it's voted #1 airport for quite a number of years already?...of course, should it get overtaken then I think the whole nation will be out of a job already then.

 

As a fellow forumer tried to educate you phasing out manufacturing will start a chain of events.

 

Citing semicon manufacturing as an example

 

Warehousing, logistics/transportation industry will see a dip with no equipment move-ins and parts storage/movement

Vendors/Equipement makers will lose business. Sales, admin, field service jobs are on the line

Supporting industry like cleaning companies, suppliers of consumables ( shoe covers, face mask, hair nets ...) will be left with no customers

And don't forget, every manufacturing company wiill have it's own set of admin, facilities, sales, etc ... functions. All will be lost should a manufacturing company close down.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Scoots

[Yewheng]

So are you advocating that such indutries should be phased out?

 

Hong Kong and New York are ahead in SIngapore in the financial sector, let's phase that out too.

We're definitely no weapons maker or developer by a long shot ... so let's shut down all the DSTA and STEngineering groups too...

We've been hearing complaints about Singapore service standards definitely not up to par when measured against countries like Japan. So lets phases out all the F&B and hospitality industry while we're at it

So I'd guess thae leaves us all applying for a job in Changi Airport since it's voted #1 airport for quite a number of years already?...of course, should it get overtaken then I think the whole nation will be out of a job already then.

 

[laugh]

[Kelpie]

Obviously, you are not following your own line of questioning: I refer you back to

 

 

Which was where I replied that it's not up to ME to decide. We each should assess based on own criteria.. but like I said: Cheap and hitting at the Government does not score any (positive) points with me.

 

And to answer your above question

 

1. I am definitely 'well aged' and

2. I'm definitely NO FT ... hope to pass off as a LT tho but damn .... my profession is flooded by 'FTs'

 

So who is going to voice out your concern when you have have all the YES Man?

 

Sometimes, you just need someone to voice things out when things are going too extreme.

 

Well, to me EP should be rewarded reasonably and we shall leave it to the Salary Review Committee to do their jobs (How cheap is cheap?). Whether or not one volunteers for a pay cut is a secondary concern to me (provided it has been given out to benefit the Singaporean and our nation). As I've said, who appeared to be the most independent and is able to provide effective check and balance will get my vote. This is my interpretation of the role of an EP.

 

 

Regards,

[Scoots]

So who is going to voice out your concern when you have have all the YES Man?

 

Sometimes, you just need someone to voice things out when things are going too extreme.

 

Well, to me EP should be rewarded reasonably and we shall leave it to the Salary Review Committee to do their jobs (How cheap is cheap?). Whether or not one volunteers for a pay cut is a secondary concern to me (provided it has been given out to benefit the Singaporean and our nation). As I've said, who appeared to be the most independent and is able to provide effective check and balance will get my vote. This is my interpretation of the role of an EP.

 

 

Regards,

 

I agree with you. Only 1 more point weighs into my conasideration: A firm "NO' Man also does as much damage to the expectations of an EP

The EP should be able to assess the situation without fear or favour and I'll add: prejudice, should the government seek his permission to touch the reserves.

 

And one the point of too many YES men... that should be addressed during GE. The EP is no superman lah.. 1 EP vs 80+cabinet. Who are we trying to kid?

Edited August 21, 2011 by Scoots

[Viceroymenthol]

Manufacturing is not simply getting a group of production workers to make the products. You need to look at the entire supply chain. Right from production planning, raw material suppliers, logistics of moving the raw materials in, quality systems, production, QC testing, warehousing, logistics of moving the products to customers (including air and sea transportation), aftersales customer or technical service, etc. Don't forget about the support staffs, such as HR, Finance, IT, etc.

 

Moving manufacturing out of Singapore and focus on service industry is going to affect many SMEs and locals. It is not as simple as moving production out.

 

 

You have a point there. It is the entire supply chain, even finance companies will be indirectly affected.

 

Maybe that is why the Govt emphasises re-education, skills improvement, etc. In case of any turn of events, such as manufacturing MNCs pulling out of Singapore to go to greener pastures, these complementary businesses in the manufacturing supply chain can morph their businesses into providing services to other industries.

 

But these complementary SMEs will die a natural death anyway because manufacturing in general in Singapore has lost its competitive edge for years already. Too bad, these SMEs up and down the supply chain have to live and learn (or re-learn).

[Viceroymenthol]

So who is going to voice out your concern when you have have all the YES Man?

 

Sometimes, you just need someone to voice things out when things are going too extreme.

 

Well, to me EP should be rewarded reasonably and we shall leave it to the Salary Review Committee to do their jobs (How cheap is cheap?). Whether or not one volunteers for a pay cut is a secondary concern to me (provided it has been given out to benefit the Singaporean and our nation). As I've said, who appeared to be the most independent and is able to provide effective check and balance will get my vote. This is my interpretation of the role of an EP.

 

 

Regards,

 

Did you forget that the Salary Review Committee is also made up of ex-Yes-men, future Yes-men and Yes-people connected to more important Yes-men? . We are like a big happy familee here, you know?

Edited August 21, 2011 by Viceroymenthol

[Kelpie]

The point of contention here is someone proposed moving manufacturing out of Singapore and focus on service industry, not which country is good in manufacturing.

 

Besides, those MNCs wanting to move out of Singapore would have moved since the 90's. Our EDB is offerring incentives to make Singapore attractive and thus helping to keep the locals going.

 

My point is the proposal put forth is not feasible as you need to look at the entire supply chain as there are too many at stake in the supply chain, not just the manufacturing activities.

 

Actually, manufacturing doesn't apply to just bolts and nuts.

 

Singapore actually is doing well in other form of manufacturing. Take for example, food. We used to shut down traditional egg farms one by one and to later discover its importance. Our egg farms later went high-tech and produce high quality egg to satisfy demand. We have home grown processed food brands that have gone global too. Even Seng Siong also gone public-listed.

 

Food manufacturing is of recent importance due to food scare. So policy gets change over time and we need to adapt/change accordingly.

 

Frankly, we do not have absolute nor comparative advantage in bolts and nuts form of manufacturing. Even Malaysian are facing the squeeze from PRC and less developed countries on precision engineering. They are so many factories which are many times the size of our plants in Malaysia but it is not uncommon to hear closure and retrenchment of factory engineers and workers every now and then.

 

As many have said, go high tech to survive. How? Tell Foreign giants that we hired really qualified FTs to come out with innovating ideas and let the capable Singaporean manage the manufacturing processes. But, by visiting plants in PRC, Japanese, Korean and even USA, you will find that "how long can we sustain" on something that we do not have advantage over the mentioned countries.

 

Singapore clear advantage are only these:

 

1. Safe and clean environment, small and easy to manage (Small Red Dot).

2. Good infrastructure and efficient public services (Fine City).

3. Pro business environment with local workers come second (Pro FTs).

4. Sound Financial network and heavily regulated (CPF is paper money).

 

Regards,

 

 

[Chucky2007]

Edit.. Edited August 21, 2011 by Chucky2007

[Kelpie]

I agree with you. Only 1 more point weighs into my conasideration: A firm "NO' Man also does as much damage to the expectations of an EP

The EP should be able to assess the situation without fear or favour and I'll add: prejudice, should the government seek his permission to touch the reserves.

 

And one the point of too many YES men... that should be addressed during GE. The EP is no superman lah.. 1 EP vs 80+cabinet. Who are we trying to kid?

 

Yes, the key word is about "Balance". For this, we do not coined TJS as an extremist. He merely aired something that is probably unpleasant to some and offended someone along the way . To have an outspoken EP (not confrontational) on policies affecting the countrymen is still better to pay 4m to someone to perform ceremonial job and just keep quiet.

 

With an EP keeping numb, people would have the inclination to think that he agrees with all the policies imposed by the ruling party and not showing any concerns to the commoners.

 

If an independent person is voted as an EP, it will send an even stronger signal to the govt to come out with more effective corrective measures not merely imposing some quick fixes. Some of these measures are actually implemented that affect you an I without us knowing it, just too high handed.

 

My 2 cents worth.

 

Regards,

[Cerano]

The point of contention here is someone proposed moving manufacturing out of Singapore and focus on service industry, not which country is good in manufacturing.

 

Besides, those MNCs wanting to move out of Singapore would have moved since the 90's. Our EDB is offerring incentives to make Singapore attractive and thus helping to keep the locals going.

 

My point is the proposal put forth is not feasible as you need to look at the entire supply chain as there are too many at stake in the supply chain, not just the manufacturing activities.

 

most MNCs keep regional HQs here. Not manufacturing bases. The only exception to this would be Global Foundries

[Cerano]

The point of contention here is someone proposed moving manufacturing out of Singapore and focus on service industry, not which country is good in manufacturing.

 

Besides, those MNCs wanting to move out of Singapore would have moved since the 90's. Our EDB is offerring incentives to make Singapore attractive and thus helping to keep the locals going.

 

My point is the proposal put forth is not feasible as you need to look at the entire supply chain as there are too many at stake in the supply chain, not just the manufacturing activities.

 

most MNCs keep regional HQs here. Not manufacturing bases. The only exception to this would be Global Foundries