COE solutions??

[Zanter]

Let's look at the big picture instead of focussing on the individual. This device (the COE) IS necessary. It was devised to keep the roads free flowing, that's all. And it is the absolute most effective way.

 

We cannot say since COEs make life more unfair , we should forget about it and just let the roads congest.

 

And the income gap in the whole world has grown wider. Perhaps Mars is a fresh start for humanity?

 

Doesnt mean that if we are being screwed we should just shut up and enjoy it? Yes this is tax revenue but it is a burden to the middle class. Most people feel its a problem that needs to be addressed. If the Govt doesnt feel that way then just wait for next election

[Angcheek]

He may have more home but if name, i dont think he will be able to buy more as at least one name entitled to one car which restrict of owning more car.

 

even if he can registered under family member name, it will only be limited up to the number of family he has.

 

or ur suggestion of additional tax is good. 1st car 0% tax, 2nd car 20% tax 3rd and above will be 40%.

 

 

Tie one name one car as you suggested is the basic rule.

 

*disclaimer, add on rules are just personal idea. Not meant to target the rich or anyone please.

 

'add on' rules can be

 

- additional tax for additional car for house member.

- limitation of car owned per house income or/and over outstanding loan including property (since sum will be huge)

- pte property owner pay more tax ?

- minimum mileage usage.

- income tax

Edited January 13, 2013 by Angcheek

[Aventador]

Doesnt mean that if we are being screwed we should just shut up and enjoy it? Yes this is tax revenue but it is a burden to the middle class. Most people feel its a problem that needs to be addressed. If the Govt doesnt feel that way then just wait for next election

 

Thats really too simplistic

 

Sure you can change the government eventually but a new government will not change the size of Singapore.

 

Unless you think scrapping the COE policy and not controling the car population is a good idea. Just let everyone who wants to buy a car do so.

[Cerano]

Thats really too simplistic

 

Sure you can change the government eventually but a new government will not change the size of Singapore.

 

Unless you think scrapping the COE policy and not controling the car population is a good idea. Just let everyone who wants to buy a car do so.

 

You are presenting a false dilemma.

 

There are other choices in vehicle control other than COE. This is not the only option. What about usage based taxes, balloting all the usuals?

[Mllcg]

Thats one good way. But he/she may buy under family member name.

 

Probably some rule to tie to home address. e.g. Additional car required additional tax ?

 

1 owner buy 7 cars also wont add to jam.

 

he can only drive 1 at a time

[Angcheek]

1 owner buy 7 cars also wont add to jam.

 

he can only drive 1 at a time

 

 

yes you are right . Unless LT@ count that as 1 COE .....

[Hi_torq]

Let us consider different scenarios.

 

Pay COE in cash, who has advantage - the rich as they have more cash in hand.

 

Reduce bank loan or higher interest, who wins - the rich.

 

One car per individual - the rich offers premium to owner which owner can't refuse. Car price goes up.

 

To avoid this the market has to flooded with cars, free market. Result traffic jams on road and in parking lot.

 

Increase ERP, so high that people shouldn't drive. Who is favored - the rich.

 

That is bitter truth of life.

[Cerano]

Let us consider different scenarios.

 

Pay COE in cash, who has advantage - the rich as they have more cash in hand.

 

Reduce bank loan or higher interest, who wins - the rich.

 

One car per individual - the rich offers premium to owner which owner can't refuse. Car price goes up.

 

To avoid this the market has to flooded with cars, free market. Result traffic jams on road and in parking lot.

 

Increase ERP, so high that people shouldn't drive. Who is favored - the rich.

 

That is bitter truth of life.

 

Indeed. Unless its a fair ballot system then the rich will kpkb say if i have money why should i be prevented from buying a car? but i still think its the fairest

then white knights will come in and say car isnt a luxury blah blah only the rich deserve it. then it becomes a moral argument which is rubbish

[Kiadaw]

You are presenting a false dilemma.

 

There are other choices in vehicle control other than COE. This is not the only option. What about usage based taxes, balloting all the usuals?

There are other means, but in the end just char queh teow leh.

 

If you have usage base tax, for instead, people will also complain, like those with high usage, like those in sales, or live far from work, for instead.

 

Fact is, our land size & infrastructural is not sufficient for every family, let alone every Adult person, to have car. fact is, most country men & women commute everyday without cars. Sure, car is a convenience, but allowing most people to get to their destinations in relative comfort, affordable & without delays are more important, then say, satisfied the artificial need to have cars, but willing to leave in in the car park most time for instance.

[Cerano]

There are other means, but in the end just char queh teow leh.

 

If you have usage base tax, for instead, people will also complain, like those with high usage, like those in sales, or live far from work, for instead.

 

Fact is, our land size & infrastructural is not sufficient for every family, let alone every Adult person, to have car. fact is, most country men & women commute everyday without cars. Sure, car is a convenience, but allowing most people to get to their destinations in relative comfort, affordable & without delays are more important, then say, satisfied the artificial need to have cars, but willing to leave in in the car park most time for instance.

 

So so far the fairest i see without any impact on day to day usage is balloting lor.

 

see your luck already dont care whether rich or poor. Rich still buy their expensive. Normal buy their normal cars. Two rounds a month

[Zanter]

Let us consider different scenarios.

 

Pay COE in cash, who has advantage - the rich as they have more cash in hand.

 

Reduce bank loan or higher interest, who wins - the rich.

 

One car per individual - the rich offers premium to owner which owner can't refuse. Car price goes up.

 

To avoid this the market has to flooded with cars, free market. Result traffic jams on road and in parking lot.

 

Increase ERP, so high that people shouldn't drive. Who is favored - the rich.

 

That is bitter truth of life.

 

What are you saying that we don't already know?

 

100k tax to drive a car for 10 years is equitable? You think so?

 

 

 

[Maseratigood]

Indeed. Unless its a fair ballot system then the rich will kpkb say if i have money why should i be prevented from buying a car? but i still think its the fairest

then white knights will come in and say car isnt a luxury blah blah only the rich deserve it. then it becomes a moral argument which is rubbish

If we adopt ballot method, how about something like housing ie public vs private where the former serves the need of the not so rich, the latter the rich or quite rich?

 

For example, just as a concept ------ divide COEs into pub n pte categories. Those who are eligible for the pub ones will have to ballot for one and pay a price linked to some kind of cost of living index etc, the COEs is non transferable as described below for pte COEs. Pte COEs are for bidding, bidders can bid as high as they want but pay as they bid, dealers not allowed to bid and it's non transferable in the first three years.

 

Just testing the idea.

[Angcheek]

If we adopt ballot method, how about something like housing ie public vs private where the former serves the need of the not so rich, the latter the rich or quite rich?

 

For example, just as a concept ------ divide COEs into pub n pte categories. Those who are eligible for the pub ones will have to ballot for one and pay a price linked to some kind of cost of living index etc, the COEs is non transferable as described below for pte COEs. Pte COEs are for bidding, bidders can bid as high as they want but pay as they bid, dealers not allowed to bid and it's non transferable in the first three years.

 

Just testing the idea.

 

 

quite good idea to separate " public and pte "

 

I see 2 concerns to overcome.

 

1- tracking the numbers for pte

2 - secondary market

Edited January 13, 2013 by Angcheek

[Maseratigood]

property so many cooling measures ... coe at least try 1 measure ...

 

STOP DEALER FROM BIDDING COE !!!

 

it's the dealer that "decide" the coe price ... you walk into a showroom ... dealer tell you this car is priced at $250K ... $100K earmark for coe ... did the dealer ask you $100K coe ok? no, they already price in

and they won't sell you the car without coe or give you a car price without coe that you runaway immediately

if dealer can decide the coe price even before selling the car, buyer will LL has to take it because there is no other practical way for buyer to get a car without coe

so all buyers LL has to follow dealer price ... be it $90k $100k or $150k coe

yes, you may said if buyer can afford it means they can pay it but ... it's not fair when the price is not your willing price but all dealers in singapore that decide the price

if coe $100k is all bidded by individual then it's fair because they the car owner has no "motivation" to bid high coe to push car out showroom or hit sales quota

some owner still can give proxy to dealer to bid coe ... like aunty who don't know how to bid or richie who don't even care about coe

all dealer must price their car without coe ... this is the best solution

individual who bidded coe cannot pay coe will forfiet the $10k minimum -> same with current procedure for individual bidding right?

 

What happens? People will start offering price above COE in order to secure. Then you have an after market of COEs and a "premium" above COE. Who collects this additional cash? Dealers and speculators. Normal people will still have to pay more.

Well said Banned such glass hole dealers from bidding for buyers. Full stop.

[inlinesix]

Well said Banned such glass hole dealers from bidding for buyers. Full stop.

U could do your part by bidding your own COE before going to AD.

[Aventador]

You are presenting a false dilemma.

 

There are other choices in vehicle control other than COE. This is not the only option. What about usage based taxes, balloting all the usuals?

 

This is not a false dilemma. In my opinion even with balloting, usage based systems etc, it must still go hand in hand with a quota system (aka COE)

 

No other way controls the absolute number of cars totally.

 

If theres is space only for 100 cars, there should only be quota for 100 cars.

 

 

[Hi_torq]

What are you saying that we don't already know?

 

100k tax to drive a car for 10 years is equitable? You think so?

 

What I mean is that whatever we go, we end up same way. Our land resources and population doesn't match.

 

To get the dream of all fulfilled, our population has to come down to about a million. People can have the car and house of their choice. But the living cost will much higher. And then we won't need public transport. No COE is required. Just like USA, cars are cheap, and public transport is poor.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Hi_torq

[Zanter]

This is not a false dilemma. In my opinion even with balloting, usage based systems etc, it must still go hand in hand with a quota system (aka COE)

 

No other way controls the absolute number of cars totally.

 

If theres is space only for 100 cars, there should only be quota for 100 cars.

 

 

Very few advocates of abolishment of COE system in entirety so just what are you saying?

 

Most people are saying either no loan for COE and dealers should not bid on behalf of end user as they are interested party.