Public parking in private estate grumbles!

[Chrispie]

haha.. true.. i dont know the owner, so didnt know he is possesive. Neither do i want to antangonize anyone, so i tred to park properly when i had to..

 

So now i wont park there anymore.. he win.

[Boyboy]

one idea. not happy, tip the bin. but what goes ard comes ard

 

anyway, it seems like ur beef is with those who come to find fault with u even though u park in a considerate manner. it is indeed wrong of them, but from their point of view, i guess very sian when they live near eating place and they have insufficient spaces in their porch. it's lagi sian when there's no double yellow line in front of their house. therefore pple ARE allowed to park there. if got double yellow line, can apply the double standards rule i described in my earlier reply to u. i shd know, cos i always call in TP to TRY to clear the obstructions in my prev estate, but usually the TP just ask them to move their vehicles. mind u, it's not a rich estate, more for pple who cannot afford proper pte housing. sad to say

 

maybe just avoid such problem pple if u encounter them. i park at pte estates fairly often and have been quite fortunate not to be bothered by territorial homeowners, even though i drive a van and dun look like i'm going there to visit or to repair aircon

[1fast1]

in some private estate, really void of parking space.. moreover what if the house only allows 1 car to be parked inside, and most private owners i know have more than 1 car. so they park outside naturally. who likes to park far away from their own house if they live in that estate? eventually but slowly, there will be this common understanding between the people living there loh. as long as they don't obstruct one another or park another neighbour's lot, all is fine. it is not fine when people not living there, start to park there.. these are the people who arent aware of the "common understanding" and just park anyhow. i don't blame them because they don't live there. its not correct for private house owners to "chop" lots for themselves, but sometimes we need to understand, give and take.

 

in my estate, theres a stretch of road for e.g can park 3 cars, then a non-neighbour comes and park in a way that only can park his car, or just 2.. this will give rise to inconvenience. if it was a neighbour, we would have parked close to each other, maximising use of space. so naturally, we become pissed at "outsiders" over time.

 

PS: i don't reserve lots for myself outside my gate. at my area, we dont park outside other people's house, only outside our own.. this is the common understanding i was talking about. during festive occassions, i prefer to park my car outside and drive the car parked in my house.. in that way, saves me the hassle later when i return home.

 

I'm so glad there are people who understand this side of the issue speaking up. Yes, as I've mentioned, I disagree with "chope-ing" the space with physical bric-a-brac. And, generally, there's almost never an issue with established long-time neighbors - over time, we adjust to seeing what each others' needs are, even subconsciously. For example, if I find that a space immediately outside my house is taken by some non-resident, I don't park opposite my neighbor's property, even though it isn't occupied at the moment (because there are housing agents bringing people to see the place). Instead I park just a little further down (still alongside my property line, but a bit further to walk). It's no sweat, because this is a once-in-a-while occurrence, and the other residents would never knowingly encroach on what is understood to be "my" space (and I would show them the same respect).

 

It's when outsiders come in large numbers that the equilibrium is sometimes upset. But even then, this is generally a once-off sort of thing. When it comes to festive occasions, family reunions, etc., we all adjust to each other. Just like extramint says.

 

Now, the big issue I had with the TS (Chrispie) can be broken down as follows:

 

1) The TS *wasn't* talking about taking that space infrequently. He gave the clear impression that he was doing it regularly and frequently (possibly even daily). I don't think any resident can tahan this sort of thing on a regular basis, and I'm sure at least some others will agree with my sentiments.

 

2) It's not like the TS had scouted out the lie of the land, made sure he was not inconveniencing any residents, etc. when parking there for protracted periods. Clearly a resident was being inconvenienced. I disagree strongly with the manner in which the resident chose to show his displeasure (the bin thing), and in the resident's place, I would definitely have handled things differently (the polite personal approach). However, there is no guarantee the TS (or other people posting in support of this POV would listen to this sort of appeal favourably). Which still leaves an unresolved conflict.

 

3) The TS argued "first-come, first-serve". Certainly one way of looking at things. Another way is "give-and-take". Clearly, the resident has been staying there for a lot longer than the TS has been parking his car there. An equilibrium has already been established among the residents and everyone was content before the TS showed up making daily (or regular) visits to his gf. There are two possibilities here:

 

a) There is a legal lot further down the road which no-one seems to be needing most of the time. The TS can choose to take this lot instead, and walk further. However, the TS wants to be bloody-minded and insist on first-come-first-serve, and expect the resident to make it a daily affair to change his previous routine, start parking his car far away from his own place and walk back to his house. And he needs to repeat this when he's starting work. We don't know the full circumstances of the aggrieved resident, but it is probable that he works just as hard as most of us, and wants to just come home and relax asap after a hard day's work. While the TS's actions are certainly legal, don't they strike anyone else as being extremely inconsiderate?

 

b) There is either no legal lot further down or a legal lot which other residents need on a regular basis. In this case, TS is being even more inconsiderate, because where exactly does he expect the poor resident to park his car now?

 

We can all be mutually empathetic and give-and-take in this sort of situation. Or we can be strictly legalistic about everything, and assert things like "me-first" and "first-come-first-serve". Certainly, the latter attitude is one's legal prerogative. But consider this - even though scratching someone else's car is illegal (and I DO NOT condone it personally), you still depend upon the legal framework to make you whole and punish the miscreant. And you're likely to be unpleasantly surprised how often a legal recourse fails, even with in-car-cams and what-not. If you want to play a strictly legalistic game, be prepared for the law to let you down when jungle justice asserts itself.

 

Personally, I don't like being nannied by the law. I believe in the golden rule, and "live-and-let-live". The law is always the law, but that doesn't mean that anything that's strictly legal is right.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Turboflat4

[Chrispie]

i was so near to throwing the bin into the big deep drain.. but brushed off the idea as soon as it popped up. As i visit the area often, he can just do smthing to my car nx time he happen to see it.. so i am to lose again.

[Cleefho]

if the parking problem is front of your gate day in day out you will be cursing and swearing and singing a different tune

 

for your info, if i were to return to my home during the day, there can never be parking for me ( coz its in town and its free)........i need to park at the shopping complex. hope you get it

[Chrispie]

Hi, maybe let me address some of the points:

 

Now, the big issue I had with the TS (Chrispie) can be broken down as follows:

 

1) The TS *wasn't* talking about taking that space infrequently. He gave the clear impression that he was doing it regularly and frequently (possibly even daily). I don't think any resident can tahan this sort of thing on a regular basis, and I'm sure at least some others will agree with my sentiments.

 

I visit my gf about once or twice a week. I park at most 6 hrs each time as i usually stay for half a day.

 

2) It's not like the TS had scouted out the lie of the land, made sure he was not inconveniencing any residents, etc. when parking there for protracted periods. Clearly a resident was being inconvenienced. I disagree strongly with the manner in which the resident chose to show his displeasure (the bin thing), and in the resident's place, I would definitely have handled things differently (the polite personal approach). However, there is no guarantee the TS (or other people posting in support of this POV would listen to this sort of appeal favourably). Which still leaves an unresolved conflict.

 

I turned around the neighbourhood twice already. All available legal space taken up. And the space was the only one that is clear to take.

 

3) The TS argued "first-come, first-serve". Certainly one way of looking at things. Another way is "give-and-take". Clearly, the resident has been staying there for a lot longer than the TS has been parking his car there. An equilibrium has already been established among the residents and everyone was content before the TS showed up making daily (or regular) visits to his gf. There are two possibilities here:

 

Any consensus is for the residents around the area only. That being mutual in the community, does not apply to visitors, and neither should they expect us to know what kinda of arrangements they had unless it is clearly stated in words , some way or another.

 

a) There is a legal lot further down the road which no-one seems to be needing most of the time. The TS can choose to take this lot instead, and walk further. However, the TS wants to be bloody-minded and insist on first-come-first-serve, and expect the resident to make it a daily affair to change his previous routine, start parking his car far away from his own place and walk back to his house. And he needs to repeat this when he's starting work. We don't know the full circumstances of the aggrieved resident, but it is probable that he works just as hard as most of us, and wants to just come home and relax asap after a hard day's work. While the TS's actions are certainly legal, don't they strike anyone else as being extremely inconsiderate?

 

The owner didnt even place any item on the space to 'warn' anyone. And his house has a porch which was empty at that point in time, and may i add, there isnt any more space available.

 

b) There is either no legal lot further down or a legal lot which other residents need on a regular basis. In this case, TS is being even more inconsiderate, because where exactly does he expect the poor resident to park his car now?

 

There is not many legal lot in the whole area. In fact, if you visit the area, most drivers parked illegally. what i do is to do what i can within the constraints of traffic rules. So if the owner has his porch empty, why was he so anal about me parking outside?

 

It is my fault for not elaborating enough in my earlier posts. Hope this reply will shed more light into the real situation.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Chrispie

[1fast1]

Actually, now that you've made the situation a little clearer, I'm more sympathetic to your case. I thought you were doing this a lot more frequently. This is why clear communication is so important.

 

And that applies between you and this resident as well. If he won't open lines of communication, maybe you can start the ball-rolling. Explain that you're only parking there on a relatively infrequent basis, give him an idea of when to expect it, and why you're parking there (visiting gf is legitimate). Ask if he can please park his car in the porch during those periods.

 

Hopefully, you'll both be able to come to an understanding then. And even if not, at least if you post his perspective here, we'll be better able to advise you.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Turboflat4

[Boyboy]

since u visit, u shd be regarded as a guest and not freeloader.

 

in which case, perhaps you could ask your gf to help u talk to the neighbour, or even talk to him yourself. you may be right, but sometimes, a little effort to engage n explain yourself will soothe those who are unreasonable.

 

u might make a new friend, who knows?

[Throttle2]

Think that in this scenario, the point is legal vs ethcal right. Legally, the roaitd outside private houses are public so can park legally but when it causes inconvenience to the house house owners, another issue. I feel that if cars wanna park there, other than house owners, be a bit auto and think for the house owner. He needs a place to park his car too and he has no choice where to park. Visitors have a choice. At most, like in geylang, dun go there la.

 

If i put a bicycle outside your house and sayit is common corridor, will u be happy? Maybe if no inconvenience but what if u want to buy a bicycle for yourself? And the whole corridor is full of neighbour's things and visitors' bicycles? And the only place to put your bicycle is the bicycle lot under your block (where it could be easily stolen). Would you be happy? After all, I parked my bicycle is a public area and you can walk and out of your home and hey, you you can still park you can still park your bicycle downstairs..................

 

 

well said.

 

It's not about legality.

It's about being considerate and thinking fairly for others.

 

Most private landed house owners understand these unwritten rules.

and so do most considerate visitors.

 

It's those self centered assho*les that think otherwise and take advantage of situations regardless.

Plenty of them out there, sadly.

 

 

 

 

[Throttle2]

oh, and let me add, I will avoid buying landed property in crampy , messy estates.

So potential buyers, beware.

Such things are serious considerations before putting your money down.

 

 

 

 

[Throttle2]

my gf stays on a walk up apartment, NO CARPARK can? The only place i can park is along those street.

 

The fact remains, the street is public. Period. So have you seen those shops where they put their stuff on a carpark lot outside their shopspace to chop those public lots for themselves? (like geylang area), imagine, you need a parking space, area very busy, so cant find place to park, and you found a lot but its occupied by a pail. WHAT IS YOUR REACTION? Do you think "oh.. they are running a biz.. i can understand. '

 

There is also a church around the area, and where do you think the church goers park as well? They even go up the pavement! Come on, be real.

 

i know the area very well. What for i buy a car, if she need to drive to get me, or i go take public transport. And because i know the area well, I KNOW EXACTLY THE LEGAL SPOTS, AND THE EXACT KERBS where i can park so as not to obstruct anyone. I did my part within the constraints of the area, so how can the house owner simply take laws in their own hand?

 

Yes I am cheapo.. but only idiot will go pay a few dollars for a parking lot, when you know you can park for free just a street away without the fear of whether you tore enough coupon. Need to pay vs free, use some common sense.

 

no offence to turboflat4, but talk about self righteous, do put things in persepective first.

 

 

Chrispie, some things you can only understand when you are in the other person's shoes.

as per the bold part. yes I am one of those "

Edited March 15, 2010 by Throttle2

[Nf0rc3r]

sometimes we have to put ourselves in their shoes. They put the bins there not to prevent "anyone" from parking there. Its to prevent "people who dun live there" parking there.

Imagine u have 5 parking lots for u and 4 of your neighbours in front of your house. It is a unspoken rule of cos between u and your neighbours they u split equally 1 each. Unless you dun need it den your neighbours can share your assigned lot.

 

Imagine one fine day someone u dun recognise who obviously doesn't live in the area come park in your slot. the slot u park everyday cos u stay next to the slot cos that person "wants to eat char kuay diao 500m away which has a paid parking lot 50m away from it".

 

Cos a guy wan to save $1 on parking space. he makes someone parks further away from home. Tell me u wont be pissed.

 

To put things in perspective. HDB has actually done HDB owners a favour by assigning some lots to "SEASON PARKING ONLY" Its exactly the same concept as the owners have in mind. Since I stay here, of cos I get to park here. There is nth wrong with that assumption if not HDB would not have season parking only lots. Its to reserve space for those who stay there so they don't have to park 500m away. Think about it.

 

Like some said: Person A cheapo out and walk FURTHER to get free parking causing Person B to walk FURTHER juz cos A cheapo out. Person B has all the rite to be angry."

Edited March 15, 2010 by Nf0rc3r

[Magfocus]

TS might not be correct, but its still wrong to have a wheelie bin on his car door. People park outside my property frequently, but that does not give me the excuse to lean my bin on the car.

[Chrispie]

but doesnt hdb has an obligation towards the residents because the residents paid season parking? ultimately the space has been paid, so in a way the payer has to have some rights.

 

In the case of private estates, it is all out of good will, so things are not so clear cut. It may be a privilege, but def not an entitilement to the house owner that the lot must be his. Especially in the case where the owner want the space outside because it is too much work to reverse into the porch.

[TandemAssassin]

if your gate / entrance is like "forever" being obstructed by regular visitor to the neighbourhood and yet the drivers still don't care a damn about the inconvenience caused to the resident, then it will turn ugly. The residents try not to make it ugly to the "regular" by putting the dustbin there .... that is being kind.....if they scratch your car u also don't know, or put a nail under the tire....who knows ?

 

If the person parked in a way to obstruct your gate, then the person is obviously an ass. What I refer to in my post are those drivers who park in a considerate way and those homeowners who put dustbins to chope a parking space by the kerb. Unless the road belongs to the estate, it is not right to reserve a parking space.

 

There is actually a simple solution for homeowners. You just have to write into LTA and request that they paint parking lots. I know some areas in Bukit Timah are like that. Everyone has to pay. The homeowners all park inside their house or just in front of their gates.

Edited March 15, 2010 by TandemAssassin

[Chrispie]

u be surprised, if a lot is painted, the house owner will not park there but inside the house, and find a free legal spot further down the road to park their additonal cars. And visitors will actually be the willing party to pay to park there.

[Scoots]

Aiya ...

 

Legally, you can park there.

Legally, the home owner can put the trashbin there

 

You buay song he put the bin there

Home owner buay song you park there ...

 

sounds pretty much the same thing except which side you happen to be in at which point of time

[Chrispie]

bro... when i park there, no bin was in sight leh....