BYD M6

[inlinesix]

On 3/23/2025 at 9:32 AM, lzs said:

Hi, I'm looking to get the BYD M6 and while working out numbers to compare, I'm puzzled about the electricity cost to run the M6. The M6 lists 18.7 kWh per 100km. Considering charging cost ranging from $0.60 to $0.75 per kWh, this means the M6 electricity cost is about $0.112 to $0.14 per km.

I'm also looking at hybrids such as the Honda Stepwagon Spada, which claims 19.6 km/l. Assuming Shell 95 with usual discounts, currently $2.41 per l, this means the cost is about $0.123 per km.

Of course I understand real world driving conditions might be different, but I'll just take at face value the published numbers for this comparison. I am surprised a large hybrid (the Stepwagon has a 2.0l engine) can be in the same league as a full electric vehicle. I hope I didn't somehow mess up my math. 🙂

Any thoughts on this? Is the M6 perhaps not so efficient?

Honda hybrid is different.

At speed below 80km/h, it is pure electric.
Engine is just an generator.

[Lala81]

On 3/23/2025 at 8:32 AM, lzs said:

Hi, I'm looking to get the BYD M6 and while working out numbers to compare, I'm puzzled about the electricity cost to run the M6. The M6 lists 18.7 kWh per 100km. Considering charging cost ranging from $0.60 to $0.75 per kWh, this means the M6 electricity cost is about $0.112 to $0.14 per km.

I'm also looking at hybrids such as the Honda Stepwagon Spada, which claims 19.6 km/l. Assuming Shell 95 with usual discounts, currently $2.41 per l, this means the cost is about $0.123 per km.

Of course I understand real world driving conditions might be different, but I'll just take at face value the published numbers for this comparison. I am surprised a large hybrid (the Stepwagon has a 2.0l engine) can be in the same league as a full electric vehicle. I hope I didn't somehow mess up my math. 🙂

Any thoughts on this? Is the M6 perhaps not so efficient?

With a 2.0L engine. The road tax difference is no longer as favorable. But the spada is also more roomy and comfortable. 

I would say any ev is roughly 5-6km per kwh. Byds tend to lie on the lower range due to using LFP batteries. And maybe even 4+ km/kwh on motorway speeds. (this is well proven on the car wow UK real world range tests that tested the seal which only showed middling  range among EVs at best). 

LFP are more durable but hold less energy density. So you can think of it as a trade off. 

NMC vs LFP energy density is literally 1.6 times. So imagine for a 71kwh battery. What's the weight difference? Easily 100kg difference. 

 

This is American real world use on the 2.0ehev in civic. I think with city driving, there's some regen breaking so it's pretty close to ev. And it doesn't have to lug around another 300kg of batteries. 

https://www.civic11forum.com/threads/fuel-consumption-higher-than-advertised.6061/

 

Spada probably has a terrible drag coefficient though due to its boxy shape. So I think around 16-18 km/l would be a very realistic real world efficiency. Maybe can check spada owners on telegram or what not to ask around. 

 

In summary, for b&b car you are likely to see real world fuel efficiency of a LFP EV vs a Honda 1.5 or 2.0 ehev to not show minor cost savings. 

[Lala81]

On 3/23/2025 at 9:25 AM, Tohto said:

My experience is EV actual number much better than spec while ICE is the other way. 

I can't Google a clear answer but I believe your enyaq is a NMC battery? Or LFP 

[Lethalstrike]

On 3/23/2025 at 10:45 AM, Lala81 said:

I can't Google a clear answer but I believe your enyaq is a NMC battery? Or LFP 

Enyaq should be NMC. I don't think any of the Conti brand EVs on sale currently in Singapore are using LFPs. 

LFPs still the domain of Tesla and Chinese brands, for now. 

[Tohto]

On 3/23/2025 at 10:25 AM, lzs said:

@Tohto Just curious, what is your experience with consumption like?

 

My EV spec is 5.2km/kwh.

I am getting average 6.5km/kwh on manual calculation. Trip meter is 7km/kwh.

[Lala81]

On 3/23/2025 at 11:11 AM, Lethalstrike said:

Enyaq should be NMC. I don't think any of the Conti brand EVs on sale currently in Singapore are using LFPs. 

LFPs still the domain of Tesla and Chinese brands, for now. 

Yeah so NMC batteries due to the weight advantage would definitely have better efficiency all things being equal. It's like comparing a NA ICE vs a 1.5L small turbo ICE. 

Based on what tcy say from his followers feedback. He say it's max max 350-400km real world in malaysian owner experience. So that's very close to 5+ kwh. Discount a bit cos malaysian highway speed is higher. 

Edited March 23 by Lala81

[Mkl22]

On 3/23/2025 at 8:32 AM, lzs said:

Hi, I'm looking to get the BYD M6 and while working out numbers to compare, I'm puzzled about the electricity cost to run the M6. The M6 lists 18.7 kWh per 100km. Considering charging cost ranging from $0.60 to $0.75 per kWh, this means the M6 electricity cost is about $0.112 to $0.14 per km.

I'm also looking at hybrids such as the Honda Stepwagon Spada, which claims 19.6 km/l. Assuming Shell 95 with usual discounts, currently $2.41 per l, this means the cost is about $0.123 per km.

Of course I understand real world driving conditions might be different, but I'll just take at face value the published numbers for this comparison. I am surprised a large hybrid (the Stepwagon has a 2.0l engine) can be in the same league as a full electric vehicle. I hope I didn't somehow mess up my math. 🙂

Any thoughts on this? Is the M6 perhaps not so efficient?

You also need to add the road tax and $700 surcharge. This is a fixed cost.

the variable would then be servicing and parts repairs over a 5 or 10yr horizon. EV will be much much less. 

[lzs]

Hi everyone. Thanks for all the input. Yes, I understand the road tax and maintenance items. I had just thought that charging costs should have been lower.

[Lethalstrike]

On 3/23/2025 at 12:42 PM, Lala81 said:

Yeah so NMC batteries due to the weight advantage would definitely have better efficiency all things being equal. It's like comparing a NA ICE vs a 1.5L small turbo ICE. 

Based on what tcy say from his followers feedback. He say it's max max 350-400km real world in malaysian owner experience. So that's very close to 5+ kwh. Discount a bit cos malaysian highway speed is higher. 

The BYD M6 has a 71 kWh battery and its rated WLTP range is 440km. It quite a big battery but still 440km on paper range means its efficiency is probably not very good. 

On-paper 440km WLTP. Actual real world range when charged to 100% will be 440km minus 20%, which is about 352km. Sounds about right as what TCY mentioned. 

Edited March 23 by Lethalstrike

[Tohto]

On 3/23/2025 at 10:45 AM, Lala81 said:

I can't Google a clear answer but I believe your enyaq is a NMC battery? Or LFP 

Yes.  NMC battery.

[Heartlander]

On 3/23/2025 at 8:32 AM, lzs said:

Hi, I'm looking to get the BYD M6 and while working out numbers to compare, I'm puzzled about the electricity cost to run the M6. The M6 lists 18.7 kWh per 100km. Considering charging cost ranging from $0.60 to $0.75 per kWh, this means the M6 electricity cost is about $0.112 to $0.14 per km.

I'm also looking at hybrids such as the Honda Stepwagon Spada, which claims 19.6 km/l. Assuming Shell 95 with usual discounts, currently $2.41 per l, this means the cost is about $0.123 per km.

Of course I understand real world driving conditions might be different, but I'll just take at face value the published numbers for this comparison. I am surprised a large hybrid (the Stepwagon has a 2.0l engine) can be in the same league as a full electric vehicle. I hope I didn't somehow mess up my math. 🙂

Any thoughts on this? Is the M6 perhaps not so efficient?

I used ChatGPT to answer your query. Overall very impressed with the answers provided.

Q: Your whole paragraph above.

A: As below. Really blow my mind!

Your math looks mostly sound, and it's great that you're comparing these two vehicles based on fuel and electricity costs! Here's a quick breakdown and some additional insights:

BYD M6 (Electric)

You mentioned the M6 has an energy consumption rate of 18.7 kWh per 100 km.

If electricity costs are between $0.60 to $0.75 per kWh, that gives:

$0.60 per kWh: 18.7 kWh x $0.60 = $11.22 per 100 km, or $0.112 per km.

$0.75 per kWh: 18.7 kWh x $0.75 = $14.03 per 100 km, or $0.14 per km.

These values are consistent with what you mentioned, so no issue there.

Honda Stepwagon Spada (Hybrid)

For the Stepwagon Spada, you have the following details:

19.6 km/l fuel efficiency, with fuel priced at $2.41 per liter.

Cost per km = $2.41 ÷ 19.6 km/l = $0.123 per km.

This is again exactly what you calculated, and it puts the hybrid's cost of operation in the same ballpark as the electric M6.

Thoughts on Efficiency

It’s true that the Stepwagon, a 2.0L hybrid (probably with both electric and gasoline power), can achieve a very competitive cost-per-kilometer rate compared to a full electric vehicle like the M6. A few points to consider here:

Energy Efficiency of EV vs Hybrid:
Electric vehicles (EVs) tend to be more efficient at converting energy (electricity) into motion compared to combustion engines, but hybrids can still achieve very efficient real-world fuel consumption by balancing electric and gasoline power. The Stepwagon’s hybrid powertrain likely helps keep fuel consumption down, especially in urban driving where regenerative braking and electric-only driving help.

Different Driving Conditions:
EVs like the M6 perform best in urban and stop-and-go driving, where the regenerative braking and constant electric power offer maximum efficiency. The hybrid, on the other hand, would be more efficient on longer highway trips, where the engine can operate more optimally without the need for frequent stops and starts. So, real-world efficiency would depend heavily on your driving style and usage patterns.

Energy vs. Fuel Cost:
Electricity costs tend to be more stable than fuel prices, so even though the hybrid's per-kilometer cost is similar or slightly higher, your long-term cost of running an EV might be more predictable and possibly lower, especially if electricity prices stay relatively stable.

Vehicle Characteristics:
The M6 might not be quite as efficient as some other electric cars (which often use less than 15 kWh per 100 km), but it’s still a reasonable figure for a larger electric vehicle. There’s likely a trade-off between size, weight, and aerodynamics when it comes to energy consumption in full-electric vehicles, and the M6 might be more efficient than many larger EVs.

Conclusion

You're right that, based on the numbers, the hybrid Stepwagon seems to match the M6 in terms of operating cost per kilometer, at least on paper. However, the M6 might have a few advantages in areas like long-term energy predictability, lower maintenance costs (EVs typically have fewer moving parts), and possibly an overall better driving experience in urban settings due to being fully electric.

That said, you haven’t messed up your math! You’ve just uncovered how efficient the Stepwagon’s hybrid system can be. In terms of electricity consumption, the M6 isn’t necessarily inefficient, but hybrids can be quite efficient, too, especially with the right balance of electric assist and gas engine performance.

 

Q: How much to charge up BYD M6 in singapore using latest rate?

A:

To calculate how much it would cost to fully charge a BYD M6 in Singapore using the latest EV charging rates, we'll break it down into steps:

Assumptions:

The BYD M6 has a battery capacity of 71.7 kWh (a common figure for some versions of the M6).

The charging rate in Singapore ranges from $0.50 to $0.63 per kWh (based on the latest rates for DC fast charging or AC charging at some stations).

Calculation:

Battery capacity of BYD M6: 71.7 kWh.

Charging cost per kWh:

Lower range (at $0.50/kWh):
71.7 kWh × $0.50 = $35.85 for a full charge.

Upper range (at $0.63/kWh):
71.7 kWh × $0.63 = $45.21 for a full charge.

Summary:

Charging a BYD M6 from 0% to 100% in Singapore would cost between $35.85 and $45.21 depending on the charging provider and the specific rate you get.

This range assumes you're using DC fast charging, which is the quicker and more expensive method. AC charging (if used) could be a bit cheaper but slower.

Let me know if you'd like to explore specific providers or charging locations further!

 

 

[lzs]

Indeed ChatGPT is pretty good, but one needs to verify their answers. I had a bad experience where ChatGPT produced the correct explanations, correct formulas, and identified the correct values, and yet after producing the correct equation, calculated the wrong answer. I checked everything except the calculation, because I assumed that's the easiest part, surely it won't get that wrong.

I'm kinda leaning toward the M6 but being an analytical person, I like to run the numbers, check the facts, etc. 🙂 I had thought it was a given that an EV is going to cost less than a Hybrid (electricity vs petrol cost), and I guess I just learned this isn't so simple! I suppose the best scenario is for landed property owners who can charge at home at < 30 cents per kWh. (I know there's also the 25% discount for charging for BYD owners... that will move the cost in the M6's favour.)

[steveting99]

@lzs Please note that the Honda Stepwagon is a Cat B vehicle while the BYD M6 is a Cat A vehicle.

There is delta of $40k between Stepwagon to M6 in terms of pricing (if you're comparing directly between the two) - which will easily pay for the charging costs of the BYD M6 during the 10-year CoE lifetime of both vehicles.

[Scholesy]

On 3/24/2025 at 2:30 PM, lzs said:

Indeed ChatGPT is pretty good, but one needs to verify their answers. I had a bad experience where ChatGPT produced the correct explanations, correct formulas, and identified the correct values, and yet after producing the correct equation, calculated the wrong answer. I checked everything except the calculation, because I assumed that's the easiest part, surely it won't get that wrong.

I'm kinda leaning toward the M6 but being an analytical person, I like to run the numbers, check the facts, etc. 🙂 I had thought it was a given that an EV is going to cost less than a Hybrid (electricity vs petrol cost), and I guess I just learned this isn't so simple! I suppose the best scenario is for landed property owners who can charge at home at < 30 cents per kWh. (I know there's also the 25% discount for charging for BYD owners... that will move the cost in the M6's favour.)

to b honest they are diff class MPVs. if your kids are still small/young, M6 will work for you. its cheaper, similar or lower operating costs, kids can take the 3rd row. but if yours are teenagers, with grandparents in tow, helper etc, then longer term all will b happier with the spada / triplets / serena. 

i have a noah btw. Fc is 18. the phv pple in the fb group drive till 250k still no issues on the battery so i guess thats the last of normal drivers concerns. running costs wise i thk shd be same - higher fuel lower rd tax offset lower elect higher rd tax. major components wise - thk most jap cars as long u change fluids on time, usu no gb/engine issues for 10yr. 

eventually, i thk its still back to your budget, your needs and access to charging and downtimes.    

[Lala81]

On 3/26/2025 at 8:47 AM, Scholesy said:

to b honest they are diff class MPVs. if your kids are still small/young, M6 will work for you. its cheaper, similar or lower operating costs, kids can take the 3rd row. but if yours are teenagers, with grandparents in tow, helper etc, then longer term all will b happier with the spada / triplets / serena. 

i have a noah btw. Fc is 18. the phv pple in the fb group drive till 250k still no issues on the battery so i guess thats the last of normal drivers concerns. running costs wise i thk shd be same - higher fuel lower rd tax offset lower elect higher rd tax. major components wise - thk most jap cars as long u change fluids on time, usu no gb/engine issues for 10yr. 

eventually, i thk its still back to your budget, your needs and access to charging and downtimes.    

Within SG, short city trips. The M6 middle row is sliding. So actually it can be quite adjustable for last row comfort. 

I'm not sure whether Wish/Stream had this back then. 

Go Malaysia then definitely need the triplets/spada. 

At these high prices, the Cat A and Cat B difference of 20k and increased dealer margins for the cat B cars exacerbate the difference. 

 

Edited March 26 by Lala81

[Mkl22]

On 3/26/2025 at 9:19 AM, Lala81 said:

Within SG, short city trips. The M6 middle row is sliding. So actually it can be quite adjustable for last row comfort. 

I'm not sure whether Wish/Stream had this back then. 

Go Malaysia then definitely need the triplets/spada. 

At these high prices, the Cat A and Cat B difference of 20k and increased dealer margins for the cat B cars exacerbate the difference. 

 

confirm wish 2nd row is sliding. 60-40 split

[Scholesy]

@Lala81 ya the price diff is also due to higher EV rebates.

so still the main points - budget and needs. Depn diff could be smaller than the price diff. 

if can drive all the way to 10y, i thk depn hit wont be much diff but if have to sell halfway or have habit of changing cars, i thk the resale value of the jap shd hold better.  

On 3/26/2025 at 9:19 AM, Lala81 said:

Within SG, short city trips. The M6 middle row is sliding. So actually it can be quite adjustable for last row comfort. 

I'm not sure whether Wish/Stream had this back then. 

Go Malaysia then definitely need the triplets/spada. 

At these high prices, the Cat A and Cat B difference of 20k and increased dealer margins for the cat B cars exacerbate the difference. 

 

 

[Lucifire]

Hi, anyone know why I'm only getting about 70kw charge 7 rate when using the fast dc 100kw charging station? Tried 2 different stations