Electric MPVs From China - Who is going to be the Alphard killer?

[Annapurna]

@Chipsahoy8919 Mine still Orange colour for the Instrument Cluster.  So far no OTA updates.  Yesterday morning I went to Ubi service and the SA tried to do a force update using the OBU but according to him, it was not completely successful.  He said some features were updated, something like seat adjustment but lane keeping and some other features cannot be done.  He said I will have to wait for the OTA update which should come soon, but dont know when.  Sian.

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 4/10/2025 at 11:41 AM, Annapurna said:

@Chipsahoy8919 Mine still Orange colour for the Instrument Cluster.  So far no OTA updates.  Yesterday morning I went to Ubi service and the SA tried to do a force update using the OBU but according to him, it was not completely successful.  He said some features were updated, something like seat adjustment but lane keeping and some other features cannot be done.  He said I will have to wait for the OTA update which should come soon, but dont know when.  Sian.

@Annapurna If there is 1 major flaw of the Denza D9, I feel very letdown by their TECH (software support and integration with hardware). EV cards are supposed to the gamechangers and trailblazers in car tech, but for the D9, it always seem to be a chokepoint instead with non-existent OTA or even Apps (e.g. Karaoke) that install into perpetuality. From the speed at which BYD/Denza launches OTA, I suspect this would change anytime soon. Rather, it seems like BYD/Denza is only interested in selling you their cars, and once you are on board then the door slams in your face - thanks for making us the #1 car selling brand in Singapore.  

[chuanyan128]

On 4/10/2025 at 12:26 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

@Annapurna If there is 1 major flaw of the Denza D9, I feel very letdown by their TECH (software support and integration with hardware). EV cards are supposed to the gamechangers and trailblazers in car tech, but for the D9, it always seem to be a chokepoint instead with non-existent OTA or even Apps (e.g. Karaoke) that install into perpetuality. From the speed at which BYD/Denza launches OTA, I suspect this would change anytime soon. Rather, it seems like BYD/Denza is only interested in selling you their cars, and once you are on board then the door slams in your face - thanks for making us the #1 car selling brand in Singapore.  

Strictly my own opinion only.

You may be right in terms of the OTA upgrade frequencies. But looking around, there are many EV owners around the world commented there's no OTA updates for more than 3 months. So just wondering I gotten mine around Christmas 24 till now slightly more than 100days and in between there's 1 OTA. Is it really that bad? BTW I had all those features that mentioned earlier from you guys about ICC, lane keeping assist/warning etc, all these features are already in mine from the first day of collection. Till now I've 0 issues with the software operations, screen is silky smooth, Android Auto auto-connect when start, even integrate the Android Auto google map navigation into the HUD, lane keeping warning in HUD... everything just work well together.

So to me, TECH is not an issue (I've heard quite a few horror stories about TECH issues with Conti brands). Probably Denza rolling out OTA upgrades in SG is slower or maybe because our model is not new, It was first launch in China since Aug 2022 so many of the upgrades and updates had already been installed when we gotten ours. But who knows, too short a time in SG to tell.

[DemonDenza]

I am one of the first adopters for D9.

Is there a whatsapp group i can join?

Else, can we create one in WA or FB?I can volunteer.

I know FB has one but pretty much inactive.

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 4/10/2025 at 7:02 PM, chuanyan128 said:

Strictly my own opinion only.

You may be right in terms of the OTA upgrade frequencies. But looking around, there are many EV owners around the world commented there's no OTA updates for more than 3 months. So just wondering I gotten mine around Christmas 24 till now slightly more than 100days and in between there's 1 OTA. Is it really that bad? BTW I had all those features that mentioned earlier from you guys about ICC, lane keeping assist/warning etc, all these features are already in mine from the first day of collection. Till now I've 0 issues with the software operations, screen is silky smooth, Android Auto auto-connect when start, even integrate the Android Auto google map navigation into the HUD, lane keeping warning in HUD... everything just work well together.

So to me, TECH is not an issue (I've heard quite a few horror stories about TECH issues with Conti brands). Probably Denza rolling out OTA upgrades in SG is slower or maybe because our model is not new, It was first launch in China since Aug 2022 so many of the upgrades and updates had already been installed when we gotten ours. But who knows, too short a time in SG to tell.

If BYD truly wants to own the EV market, then it must upend the EV OG that is Tesla, not only in terms of hardware but software as well (i.e. OTAs). The main selling point (to me) of EVs is that you are not only buying the hardware (in the sense of a traditional ICE car where both hardware + software remains the same for 10-years) but also the software, and the USP of EVs is that with OTAs, you kind of get a 'new car with new features/gimmicks' during the lifespan of the car. Thus, for the same money with an EV, you are getting 'the new car vibes' every few months which keep things fresh. 

Which routes back to Tesla as the original EV trailblazer and while I do not own a Tesla, I read that on average, there are 3-4 OTAs every year which livens up the cabin and driving experience. 

Back to the D9, why I bitch about its lack of software support is because: 

1. I got the car after you, but my car doesn't come with ICC, LDA/LDW etc. This tells you that this is no standardisation of software integration among the D9s for their customers. 

2. Instead of OTA, I have to personally visit the service center, and by stroke of luck as I was bitching to them a $300k with no LDW/LDA, they told me 'oh, I can install that for you today'. Shouldn't such updates be proactively communicated to the D9 owners through OTA instead of us requesting for it? 

3. When I bought the car, I was told by the SA the OTA is coming in end December. Eventually, we got it around March (cannot keep track). 

4. From Youtube videos, I know that overseas D9s can do things like change the 'Hey Denza' to 'Hey - whatever name you fancy'. Again, these are tricks that can be achieved easily with a software update. Even the BYD Seals can adjust their AC settings in the instrument cluster but we (supposedly the Lexus of BYD) aren't even provided with this function. Therefore, there is no harmonisation of the BYD/Denza products worldwide and even within their product ranges even though they appear to be using the same screens/instrument clusters. 

While I may sound like a disgruntled owner, I must say the above are not deal breakers. From my ownership of cars in the past, I know that most of these functions are just gimmicks, and have no direct overwhelming benefit to the the driving/passenger experience. The D9 remains a 'value for money - luxury MPV' which is why I picked it over the X9/Mifa9/009 in the first place. If only BYD can wake up their idea and provide consistent OTA support to existing owners, then I am quite certain they will reign supreme in the EV market. Else for owners like me who have jumped onboard the China EV bandwagon, I would likely go for a Xpeng as my next ride just to have a sensing of the hardware/software in other China EVs. 

 

[too204]

@DemonDenza pls do! I am interested to join and pretty sure many other owners too.

[DemonDenza]

Hi guys. Private message me with your name and contact and i will add you to our whatsapp groupchat. Thanks!

[Llpl]

@Chipsahoy8919

See video from 14:48. Seems like byd ota is customised for region or countries. This might be the reason why byd ota release is slow.

 

[chuanyan128]

@Chipsahoy8919 Tesla avg 3 to 4 OTA/year still work out to about 90 to 120 days interval. Their OTA update system been around here for a few years which means more stable. Denza since launch 10/10/24 exactly 6 months, 1 OTA, about 90 days. Too soon to conclude anything.

When I sign the dotted line on I know very clearly I'm not expecting something that equals or beat Tesla when comes to software. It's the whole package the car can offer and meet almost all my requirements. If I wanted super fanciful techie features, I'd have waited for X9. If I wanted the sheer power and superb build quality, I'd had gone with 009 or even wait longer to hope for Volvo EM90. More budget then Mifa9. To me D9 happens to be the best compromise of all the China EV MPVs.

Whether BYD truly own the EV market, the result is quite clear and there must be a valid reason. As for future, I not a fortune teller. Every leader will fall, only time will tell.

So, to each their own.

Anyway, staying true to this thread, looking at the current trend, having 4 China EV 9ers and a new comer GAC E9 PHEV, it is hard for Alphard to sustain its sales and position. It will be interesting to see how many China MPV vs Alphard/Vellfire in 1 to 2 years time.

[DemonDenza]

Reminder:  those who owns the d9, pm me to add you to our WA chat. 🤩

[Llpl]

On 4/11/2025 at 12:28 PM, DemonDenza said:

Hi guys. Private message me with your name and contact and i will add you to our whatsapp groupchat. Thanks!

Thanks for creating the Denza D9 owners whatsapp group chat and adding me in 🙂

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 4/11/2025 at 2:00 PM, chuanyan128 said:

@Chipsahoy8919 Tesla avg 3 to 4 OTA/year still work out to about 90 to 120 days interval. Their OTA update system been around here for a few years which means more stable. Denza since launch 10/10/24 exactly 6 months, 1 OTA, about 90 days. Too soon to conclude anything.

When I sign the dotted line on I know very clearly I'm not expecting something that equals or beat Tesla when comes to software. It's the whole package the car can offer and meet almost all my requirements. If I wanted super fanciful techie features, I'd have waited for X9. If I wanted the sheer power and superb build quality, I'd had gone with 009 or even wait longer to hope for Volvo EM90. More budget then Mifa9. To me D9 happens to be the best compromise of all the China EV MPVs.

Whether BYD truly own the EV market, the result is quite clear and there must be a valid reason. As for future, I not a fortune teller. Every leader will fall, only time will tell.

So, to each their own.

Anyway, staying true to this thread, looking at the current trend, having 4 China EV 9ers and a new comer GAC E9 PHEV, it is hard for Alphard to sustain its sales and position. It will be interesting to see how many China MPV vs Alphard/Vellfire in 1 to 2 years time.

I find it mildly amusing that it seems that you are defending the D9's credentials against a D9 naysayer (me). However, being the pioneering batch of a local D9 owner (having put my money where my mouth is within 2 months of it's launch) and being the 'role model clientele' that Denza is targeting (coming from an Alphard), I believe that we can agree to disagree. 

As I stated consistently throughout this topic, I am merely sharing my first-hand user experiences transparently without filter for any potential D9-owner to ponder over. Actually that said, I should probably keep my trap shut as the deficiencies that I highlighted might affect the resale value of the D9 down the road. 

But I do agree that it is early days to pass judgement on the Denza's software abilities. Perhaps I had held BYD's credentials to too high a standard/expectation in that since they are the pseudo-EV leader worldwide at the moment, they will somehow competently and relentlessly harmonise the features on their product ranges all over the world for the benefit of their supporters. Well, fingers crossed that they will surprise us with a slew of OTAs rather sooner than later then. 

[benoit16]

A whole month and close to 1000km driving my X9!

Been busy lol heng haven't managed to post back here earlier

Will post more hopefully soon but a mini review!

1) Charging has been largely hassle free with options at the car parks near at my home, where I park near office and also DC fast chargers nearby or at malls I visit. One thing I did notice is that some malls the charging lots do seem to be occupied quite often lol not sure if it was because it coincided with some promotion then.

2) Range wise so far it's as stated. 500km (mine is the standard range) and getting very close to this based on my normal usage the last few weeks. Based on my usual commute, can last about a week and a half or so, so no real range anxiety thus far. In fact I am still trying to settle down to a routine for charging that suits best (cheapest and suitable charge timing).

my average consumption after getting used to the X pedal mode the last week or so is around 16kWH/100km. way better than the state spec of 19kWh/100km.

3) No regrets sticking to just a graphene coat instead of PPF for now despite the crappy weather the past few weeks. Still easy to wash off. One thing I am exploring are those automated car washes but it may not be feasible as the size of the car is almost at their machines technical limits lol so one thing for fellows here to take note!

4) Very pleased so far with the tech in the car. Already received another OTA update in the last few weeks and most features work well. Only bugs I have noticed so far: wired carplay is a bit wonky, and the Bluetooth unlock when approaching the car on Android phones is not always reliable.

5) Comfort wise loving it. Can feel a very clear difference going over humps and bad roads over my 3 plus years Carnival. Much more quiet (I can hear the sound of the air cooling of my wireless charger for the phone when it's on lol). Kids and missus no complaints so far. Kids love the rear screen, and adjusting the seats and turning on the massage! minor point is if they can provide Netflix by default.

6) Fridge has come in handy already a few times and the ability to power it on when car is off is great. Fruits, cakes, other cold treats can be left in the car safely without having to make a detour home to drop them off. One of the use cases I pitched to the missus when changing cars.

7) Another interesting point - X9 doesn't come with rear wipers. So far hasn't really been an issue even with the rainy weather the past few weeks, plus having the option of he digital rear view mirror when the rear screen is on or off is useful

8 ) Size of the car so far has been relatively easy to adjust to. On the roads and making tight u turns, it's very nimble and really not a hassle. In car parks, it feels Abit easier to navigate compared to my carnival despite being a bit longer. Think the width being just a bit less wide helps plus the nimbleness turning wise. Parking in lots definite the same challenge length wise but the auto parking works great in general. 2 small perks are: 

- the space needed for the tailgate and the rear sliding doors are definitely lesser compared to my carnival, so it's a little less of a hassle. Only thing is the car protruding a bit more length wise and have to be careful of other drivers lol

- the reverse cam actually shows you and warns you about how many cm of space you have behind and if you have sufficient allowance to open the tailgate. no more guessing!

all in all, very pleased and no regrets thus far! looking forward to more improvements software wise definitely to come!

[Carbon82]

Wah piang, the over 2.2 tons Maxus Mifa 7 is now available with Cat A!!

• Power:            108KW (145 horsepower)
• Torque:           350Nm
• 0 - 100 kmh:   14.7 sec
• Top speed:     170 kmh

For a mere $9k saving, absolutely not worth it.

 

Cat A-friendly Maxus MIFA 7 joins SG lineup

Building on the success of its 180kW (241bhp) MIFA 7, Cycle & Carriage (C&C) has now announced the launch of the more affordable Cat A COE-friendly Maxus MIFA 7 electric MPV in Singapore.

The MIFA 7 Cat A variant retains the signature spaciousness and hallmark features of the Maxus lineup, such as luxury interior finishes including premium leather upholstery, advanced safety systems equipped with driver assistance features, and a state-of-the-art infotainment system.

Its seven-seater cabin features ample legroom and flexible seating configurations, with sliding doors offering easy access. A low ground clearance of 152mm allows the very young and the elderly to enter and exit the MIFA 7 with ease, and it offers 270 litres of boot space, even with all seven seats in use.

But of course, this variant has had its electric motor optimised for Cat A compliance at 108kW (145bhp) alongside 350Nm of torque and a top speed of 170km/h.

[Annapurna]

@Carbon82 For such a heavy MPV, it may be quite sluggish.  

[Tohto]

On 5/1/2025 at 12:51 PM, Annapurna said:

@Carbon82 For such a heavy MPV, it may be quite sluggish.  

Not maybe,  is confirmed.

[Jev]

On 5/1/2025 at 5:02 PM, Tohto said:

Not maybe,  is confirmed.

Funny thing is the Cat B one is actually quite quick. People have been getting around 7.5s 0-100 vs the 9s claimed (I suspect they just used the mifa 9 numbers despite it being a heavier car, as the mifa9 gets 8.7 vs 9s claimed).

14.7s would be lethargic.

[Annapurna]

Zeekr 009 is also coming out with a single motor, lower power version.    But it is still very powerful for a MPV.

The Zeekr 009 Deluxe offers a single-motor, front-wheel-drive (FWD) variant, which is part of the updated model that debuted recently. This FWD version is designed to provide a balance of power, range, and efficiency. The single-motor configuration delivers a range of 740 kilometers. It's important to note that the Zeekr 009 also comes in a dual-motor, all-wheel-drive (AWD) version. 

Key Features of the Zeekr 009 Single-Motor FWD:

Motor: Single AC synchronous, permanent magnet motor. 

Power: 450 kW (603 hp) for the dual-motor version, with the single-motor version likely having a similar or slightly lower output. 

Battery: 116 kWh. 

Transmission: Single-speed. 

Performance: 0-100 km/h in 4.5 seconds (dual-motor version, single-motor likely similar). 

Top Speed: 210 km/h. 

Technology: Includes advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS), featuring LiDAR technology, and an upgraded infotainment system. 

Interior: Refined interior with premium materials, including Nappa leather and Ultrasuede, and upgraded seats with features like headrest speakers, ventilation, massage, and heating. 

 

Edited May 2 by Annapurna