Supercharger!!!

[Elfenstar]

I'm guessing it should not be more than 10k all up if you want to TC/SC. Look ard the US websites for the kits... should give you a rough idea on what they would cost in sg.

 

Though I've never tired it, i'm very skeptical about things likes electric superchargers etc. Surbo's are pretty cheap, so i think u can give them a try but i can't say for sure that it will help.

 

When i say rough idle with cams it will rev up and down between approx 900 and 1100rpm. Its nothing like a loopy idle which drops to near stalling increases a lot then moves up and down till stable.

 

Another option which i don't know anything about (other than how it can be done) is to increase compression by getting a thinner but much stonger alloy headgasket. How it will affect the engine I don't know though but i'm sure you will at least need a retune to prevent early detonation.

[Freshmaker]

thanks for all the knowledge.

 

guess im stuck.

[Elfenstar]

Sorry wish I could help more, but then there's only so much you can do with a NA car. Its so much easier with a SC or TC car...

[Freshmaker]

hi, just got discussion sake (and a chance for me to learn more)

 

what about 2nd hand turbo kits? say those that are used on Esi civic before?

 

whats the cons of getting 2nd hand ones? besides being a lil' dirty?

 

will they fit?

[Turbonetics]

depends on the car... in this application he's retrofitting an TC or SC to a NA car.

 

Boost wise, he can't go very high unless he wants to blow his engine. With a small turbo the boost will come on fairly early and quickly with minimal lag. In addition he will have to make mechanical changes to the pulley and belt system to fit a SC while none whatsoever with a TC.

 

 

NA cars also can go high boost wat...y cant???

as long as u follow the proper steps for FI,it shd not be a problem...

like lowering the car CR,fitting it wif an intercooler n tuning of the ECU is also very impt..

[Turbonetics]

penalty same as exhaust mod.. $500

 

total cost for supercharging.. prepare about $4~8k depending on brand/make/performance

 

intercooler is not a must for superchargers as turbines are cooler.. but of course.. cooler air gives performance gains..

 

 

u'll also need a profession tuner to remap your ecu.. quite hard to supercharge a vtec..

 

Actually turbo-charge is having the same penalty as exhaust mod = $500 fine, and remove of turbo and send for inspection. You will have 1 month to do all this.

 

For Super-charge, God bless you... Penalty = Car confiscate because it's considering changing of engine.

 

 

how can SC consider as change of engine???

seems not logical to me...

[Turbonetics]

how can it be engine mod as the SC is part of the air intake manifold or system......LTA rule is too strict, liao......

 

iam not sure abt tis...but SC could be consider as engine mod bcos the pulleys need to be change...but is Engine mod=Change engine???diff rite???

[Furrynadz]

u can try spend 10k go SC it and go inspection and tell the inspector i got sc fine me 500 see wat they say

[Turbonetics]

Really.... This is the really you always hear of ppl turbocharging their cars, but very seldom there are ppl supercharging their rides instead. If both penalties are the same, I will not mind spend a bit more to SC instead of TC, since SC is so much easier and faster. It will make the money worth spend.

 

 

i dun think ppl do TC is bcos of the fine....

in reality,TC is indeed better than SC in performance...

for SC,u will notice the difference when u start to step on the gas cos the gain is definitely thruout the RPM range....

where as for TC(bigger Turbos),u will notice the gain like maybe after 3500rpm...

but the gain after 3500rpm is enough to make up for the loss u make b4 3500rpm range...

so maybe at abt 5500-6000rpm,the TC is able to overtake the SC....

[Turbonetics]

i dun mean SC fine is 500 bucks....

wat i meant was...

is SC same as change engine???

[Ltcy]

hi, didnt know that so much work is to be done. guess total damage would be around 10k, add another 2-3k for suspension and brakes. and maybe another 3k for a ECU and gauges to monitor everything. dun think it is very worth it. somemore mod the engine, next time sure got many problems arise, and wanna sell car also hard, rite?

 

somemore i cannot stand rough idling. like the car gonna stall anytime. hate the feeling.

 

looks like i should just drive this damn thing for another couple of yrs then upgrade to a better car instead.

 

btw, elf, u know anything about air charger?

 

what is it? any good gains? like i said, i dun need to be very fast. but a bit of surge in pick up to overtake is good, hehe.

 

You do not have to need so much to TC your car. For a proper TC set-up, you will need about $4000, which will include a basic turbo (TD04), intercooler, pipings. For a good electronic boost controller, you will need another $900, boost gauge, $400. Tuning using unichip with turbo module costs about $1200. Total about $6500. If you want your turbo to sound good too, add on a BOV which costs about $500. Total $7000.

 

But of cost, if you are on budget, you can buy everything seperately and secondhand too. A 2nd hand TD04 costs about $200, BOV another $200. Use a mechanical boost controller, $120. Normal boost gauge, about $150. 2nd hand intercooler and piping plus installation about $2000. 16bit Unichip plus tuning about $500. Total damage is about $3200.

[Elfenstar]

Fuel injection is only part of the equation. To run on high boost for a TC car, chances are you will need at the very least forged internals (stock block). This is on a compression rate that is much lower than a NA car (even then it still has its limits).

 

Assuming that the 03 civic is mine and i wanted to TC it (with approx 10psi boost) safely and reliably as i can, this will be what i do.

1) cryo freeze the block, (and might as well bore out the sleeves 40 thou -a.k.a. 1mm- as it wouldnt cost much more to do it with everything out and getting new internals.)

2) Forged alloy pistons, crankshaft etc,

3) HKS alloy head with stage one cams (not necessary and can be omitted but i rather have a totally new engine in top shape if not at least rebuild the head).

4) GT2530 turbo (max)

5) HKS 2mm multi layer head gasket (to lower compression)

6) Hybrid FMIC

7) Larger twin core radiator (not necessary but better)

8) Oil cooler (dun forget that coz of the oil running through the turbo, your engine oil well have a higher operating temp)

9) 740cc injectors

10) New fuel pressure regulator

11) New larger fuel pump

12) VCCS 300mm front brakes (taiwanese brand but really good... approx $1500 for the fronts)

13) 2 1/2 inch to 3 inch dump pipe back exhaust

14) new exhaust manifold for the turbo to sit on

15) New heavy duty clutch kit

16) LSD

 

Now looking at this, I have mentioned things to buy to be able to run high boost levels on a NA to turbo car safely and reliably. All of this excludes installation charges as well as adapting and fitting new piping for the air intake, coolant and engine oil. Do you actually think its worth it... For the pricing, I might as well sell my 03' civic and buy a 00' RWD S15 silvia (a.k.a. 200sx). With a simple bleeder valve boosting up to 11psi, whole new exhaust and pod with CAI, and be able to get 250rwkw.

 

Edit: I forgot to add aftermarket computer and tuning costs

Edited May 28, 2005 by Elfenstar