My CNG conversion

[Dearjoshua]

hi, wat's yr car model and how many km can it run in a full tank?? anyone know the km a full tank can run for 2.4l camry?

[Genie47]

My 60L water capacity cylinder take in 10kg (SG) or 12kg (MY). Brings me 250km but it is not truly 250km on CNG. It starts and idles on petrol. So give or take, CNG is around 200-220km.

 

Car is 1.4L DOHC. 12-13km/L when running on petrol.

[Gilbertaue]

a) How many type or size of cylinder are availabe? I came across 60L, 20L and Carbon fibre made cylinders.

 

Depending whom you ask, there are: 30l, 40l, 66, 82l, 83l, 99l Steel Cylinders. There are also 28l and 62l Carbon Fib Cylinders. NOTE: There are now also India and China made cylinders in the Singapore market - it's up to you to judge quality. If you install CNG into a NEW car, minimum quantity is total of 50l.

 

b) One of the major concern is power lost in a CNG vehicle. According to manufacturers, around 3~5% loss. How true is it from the end-user point of view?

 

Go to one of the workshops / car dealers and test drive yourself for your own opinion.

 

c) Am i right to say that if I switch to petrol mode, there will be no power losses at all? Power is only loss when it is in the CNG mode.

 

Correct

 

d) Confirm that the amount of road tax for CNG converted is the same as petrol driven cars? eg 1600cc or 2000cc.

 

Confirm.

Edited February 5, 2008 by Gilbertaue

[Gilbertaue]

I drove one to Bangkok. City driving on 83l tank ~200-220km. Highway driving ~240-250km.

[Gilbertaue]

In Singapore, all pumps (petrol/CNG) are yearly tested by SPRING. So you know that it's accurate, for malaysia, that is a bit of a "???".

 

If you guys haven't heard in the radio, Jln Buroh will start operation on 1st day of CNY 7th Feb. SembGas plans two more stations in Bedok and Bt Merah by the end of this year.

Edited February 5, 2008 by Gilbertaue

[Genie47]

Hehehe.....Malaysia Boleh.

 

OK SPC is planning for more. Setup just like the Jln Buroh one using the Nanobox?

Edited February 5, 2008 by Genie47

[Tanjkp]

My 60L water capacity cylinder take in 10kg (SG) or 12kg (MY). Brings me 250km but it is not truly 250km on CNG. It starts and idles on petrol. So give or take, CNG is around 200-220km.

 

Car is 1.4L DOHC. 12-13km/L when running on petrol.

 

From the sources of info, with 10Kg (60L) covering 250 km (+ -) actually is poor. Just think of the above example of 12 kpl means it covered 720 km with petrol.

However, the catch here for CNG is the 60L (10Kg) costs U only $10. If not for the $$, it is actually poor gas consumption. Somehow, to cover the 720 km, by filling up 2.88 times to run for it still costs only $28.80

 

Aha ! All know what is loophole ?? Remember the COE transerrable LH ? The HDB profiting cash out LH ? Hope the day won't come when our Tai Ko Tai say more tax tax tax !!(to close another LH for loss of revenue)

[Genie47]

Yes, it is a little poor but if you do the conversion of kg CNG to gasoline equivalent litre, my FC is still the same.

 

So the actual savings is the cost of CNG compared with petrol.

 

This is not new. The main complaint against CNG is the range of your vehicle. You just need to visit the fill station more often compared to petrol.

 

Actually it is $12.80 for 10kg. That is what I pay. For the taxis, they pay 10.70 for 10kg.

 

Tax sure got problem. The power generation plants here use natural gas from this pipeline. Gahment most will most likely use their most powerful weapon now. ERP.

 

Remember, they don't mind us owning cars but they want to curb car useage. Oxymoron!

Edited February 5, 2008 by Genie47

[Dirtrider_ak]

Agreed the consumption is the same. In engineering the engine capacity is the key. No matter what you feed the engine it is only going to be so much consume unless you force feed the engine call TURBO. If you force feed it will also be in ratio. It is the cost of the energy source that brings down the price.

 

The most effcient engine is still Diesel. Face the facts. It runs in high compression mode. If you convert it to CNG the range will drop super! So the thing is, it is still cheaper to run diesel for commercial to haul heavy loads and range to be effctive. They have good milage, power and the capacity. It is also cheap at $1.40 compared to Mandai CNG which is close at $1.28. You think I will be happy with that gap?

Some how Smart is trying to make quick profit from it. I find $1.07~$1.10 is friendly because I know CNG cost only around $0.90 and they are still profiting. That is why if Mandai keep up their cost I'll go Malaysia to shop and ROI. That is your LH ....hahaha.

Pump elsewhere.

Edited February 5, 2008 by Dirtrider_ak

[Octopus]

[reply]

a) How many type or size of cylinder are availabe? I came across 60L, 20L and Carbon fibre made cylinders.

 

Depending whom you ask, there are: 30l, 40l, 66, 82l, 83l, 99l Steel Cylinders. There are also 28l and 62l Carbon Fib Cylinders. NOTE: There are now also India and China made cylinders in the Singapore market - it's up to you to judge quality. If you install CNG into a NEW car, minimum quantity is total of 50l.

 

Can I check with you which company offer the range of CNG tanks range you've mentioned? I did send Melcher an email enquiry, asking what are the sizes available but they did not provide me a direct answer.

 

I asked them that if current cars were to go for the CNG conversion, since cannot enjoy the tax rebate (40% off OMV?) then it would make sense to go for <50litre tanks in order not to take up too much space in the boot. They advised me to consult LTA instead...

[Firstcall]

Can turbo petrol car use CNG?

[Dirtrider_ak]

Filled up in Mandai this evening. Like ghost CNG station. I was the only car there and next came a E200 NGT.

 

There was this Chinese national servicing my car. He was helpful but a little rough on the fill port.

 

Cost me 12.10 for a complete fill up. Ran out of gas 12km from the filling station.

 

The main guy said many private cars have come to fill up. Most are from the northern estates. They can only accept cash and he was filling up by pen and paper the collections. Not in full operation yet. As someone has mentioned to me, it is a "soft launch".

 

They are open tomorrow to 6pm. 7 and 8 Feb, they are open from 10am to 6pm. 9 Feb it is 7am all the way 24/7.

 

I just tried filling up at smart. It is a slow fill. I have to try for myself and the pressure is slightly lower. No diff to me on pressure but the price is confirmed $1.28.

The fill is slower than JI.

[Lemonteh]

Go Jalan Buroh, promotional rate now at 90 cents:

 

SembCorp Gas opens second CNG on the mainland, located at Jalan Buroh, in the Jurong Port Road area.

 

SembCorp says to mark the opening of the new station, it'll offer a discounted price of 90 cents per nett kilogram of its G-Plus gas.

 

This is 19 per cent less than the current retail price for CNG.

 

SembCorp Gas says customers can expect more retail CNG outlets in Bedok and Bukit Merah before the year end.

 

Happy Chinese New Year!

[Owram2]

[reply]Please lah! All of you wanting to convert keep harping on power. How much power do you need?

reply]

 

Hi there,

 

I know that I may not be the first one to ask about power difference. However, i cannot find a direct answer to this question.

 

My question is that how much difference does it make. As someone who just found out about CNG about 4 days ago, i really do not have much idea abt how the entire thing works! I am in the mist of buying a new car and deciding if i should convert to a CNG car.

So one of the factors came into play is Power loss factor it decides which car to select for me. For example, I will go for a 2.0L car instead of a 1.6L if the difference is huge. It is not so much for racing but for maintaining maneuverbility of the vehicle.

This is also the reason why i ask if the original power maintain in petrol mode. If it still decreases in petrol mode, then it will be a major issue to consider.

 

I think flexibility is very important to me. If CNG conversion doesn't require permanent modification to the engine, and can be remove upon request, it is already flexible. But what happens if modification of exhaust and cams are already done in a used car I wan to purchase? Can i still convert it? I know that TC and SC cars can't be installed.

 

For what i know so far, CNG kit is removeable without any problem when installed in a used car.

 

The whole idea is to find out more information on CNG and why people is not converting yet! Till date, IMO more factors are more to pros then cons. The major con is the weight of the 60L cylinder. If i can get composite tanks to reduce the weight but not compromise on safety, I dun think there are any cons for me now.

 

Please let me if any of the information is wrong.

 

Thanks to all for their valuable info.

[Genie47]

The power loss is there but an intelligent person like you would know that you can always get around this. The car matters because it is the range that matters not the power. No car manufacturer slaps a 1.3L engine into a car the size of a Camry unless they are Americans (putting 1.6L into a Mustang during the oil crisis of the 70s). Bigger the car, the bigger the cylinder, the more range you get. Gilbert's Mondeo with it's 83L water capacity cylinder is an example.

 

You can still coax the car to move. Even if it is an automatic, the software from the CNG ECU can get things moving. You won't get to a point when the car becomes sapped until it just stalls in the middle of a maneuver.

 

Take mine for example. When at idle, mine burns petrol. During traffic jams, it burns petrol most of the time. I don't experience stalls because there is a power loss and the CNG will have trouble just keeping the engine running plus A/C plus booming ICE. Not to forget the enormous amount of heat the fuel generates. So at around 1.3-1.5kRPM, the CNG kicks back in. Mine is a 1.4L and CNG is taxing on it at traffic jams so the obvious way to go about is idling on petrol. That is how Melchers programmed the ECU to go about it.

 

It also keeps me on my toes to avoid jams because I don't want to burn petrol.

 

Forced induction engines can be installed with CNG save for boxers. The increased compression ratio helps a lot because the fuel is 130 octane rating. So if you have been eye-ing on a car and if it requires RON98 fuel as minimum, you can be sure it shines very well on CNG.

 

Go call Melchers, ask them for a car to test drive. They do have a car to test drive. Maybe I should set up a test drive thread with CNG car owners offering their cars for a test drive.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Genie47

[Genie47]

G-Plus? What a name! I could have sworn I read G-String or G-LOC.

[Genie47]

Smaller cylinder = less range. You don't want to keep going to the fill station everyday, you know?

 

Your car is a hatch, issit? You can fit 2X 30L cylinders mounted one on top the other following the contours of the slant of the rear seats. Some boot space is preserved. Don't be kuku and strap one single giant 60L or 80L at the back sacrificing all including the spare tire like some MY owners with their Kancils.

 

If you need to increase load space, build up with roof bars.

[Genie47]

Turbo can use CNG but depends on the engine. I think boxers got a problem.