My CNG conversion

[Gilbertaue]

Getting back to some of the questions here:

 

Standard cylinder sizes are 30l, 66l and 99l. But due to stock etc. sometimes the local CNG workshops will get other cylinders to cover themselves while they wait for stock to arrive. That's why you sometimes get 40, 83l, 82l etc. So it depends on WHEN you ask, and WHAT they have in stock.

 

S$2k was in the real beginning when Melchers started their plan with CNG conversion. That was based on the old mixer system. Everybody gets wiser and in most of our cars today (new cars) fitting a mixer kit will cause a riot! It is fine for older carb cars, but definitely not for the newer injection cars. The sequential kits are much more expensive but also have much more flexibility in tuning - as they use a computer.

 

As for the 50l issue. It is not Melchers that sets that. It is in fact LTA that say that you must fit a minimum of 50l volume into a new car. If you want less, then you would need to contact LTA.

 

Commercial vans are also available in Petrol/CNG. Melcher's own van is a Fiat Doblo Petrol/CNG. Others like Renault and Golden Dragon are also going down the same route.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Gilbertaue

[Age1298]

Hi Bro, you mean that the pump is only open from 7am to 6pm everyday? This seems to be similar to the one at jln buroh.

 

Incidently, dunno whats up with these stations as generally would expect the pumps to remain open continuously round the clock. I went to the Jln Buroh one and was shocked to see that their daily operation hours was only 7:30am to 6:30pm, for those of us working late, this means that only can pump during office hours, doesn't make sense.

[Octopus]

Smaller cylinder = less range. You don't want to keep going to the fill station everyday, you know?

 

Your car is a hatch, issit? You can fit 2X 30L cylinders mounted one on top the other following the contours of the slant of the rear seats. Some boot space is preserved. Don't be kuku and strap one single giant 60L or 80L at the back sacrificing all including the spare tire like some MY owners with their Kancils.

 

If you need to increase load space, build up with roof bars.

 

Actually I don't mind a slightly smaller CNG cylinder, maybe around 40litre sounds good (should last 2 or 3 days?). Because I'm working on Jurong Island and every working day I would pass by the CNG filling station. Somemore Jalan Buroh station is just outside Jurong Island.

 

Now I'm driving a corolla G6, which I'm considering to retire it and get a new or 2nd hand car and get the CNG conversion. New car need to sacrifice the warranty so 2nd hand car seems worth considering for immediate CNG conversion. Yet boot space is a concern..

 

I have seen 2x25L CNG tanks at one of the PI showroom, but it was installed on a MPV... I'd guess a typical sedan won't be able to take in 2 smaller CNG cylinder, right? A slightly bigger cylinder would be more practical?

[Genie47]

Only CNY days for Mandai. It's 24/7. Jln Buroh on the other hand is 7:30am to 6:30pm. Dunno why like that. I just returned back. Apparently the filler port is not very compatible or something. Got leakage when filling. Then only can fill up to 180bar instead of 200bar for Mandai and JB.

 

I think the operation hrs for Jln Buroh is to let taxi drivers take advantage of the lower pump prices there. While there, all the Prime taxis were lining up already!

[Genie47]

Can take 2x25L. Let the installers sort this out. BTW, you want to retire the G6 and get a 2nd hand car? Find a carburetted one. Cheaper installation with the mixer system. If you can find a B14 Sunny, get it. Melchers installed one into a B14. It was flawlessly cheap!

[Dirtrider_ak]

I don't have any issues with Mandai can hit 200 Bar. But Jln Buroh lousy only hitting 180bar. It generate so much heat on the the pump at Jln Buroh. I still like JI pump it is good and very strong there. Ah yah lousy lahh the pump at Jln Buroh. Must open the vales slowly .... and all passenger must come out. Then the valve must make hydrulic type to prevent them from opening fast. So as an engineer it is an excuse or poor design. I know it is the station gas pump is too sensetive ...LOL or some other malfunction 100%.

Haha imagine set and ISO standard for a worker opening a valve at a certain speed. So is it making a fool out of policies? haha ISO standards on how to recharge gas? LOL

Edited February 8, 2008 by Dirtrider_ak

[Genie47]

I am surprised it hit 180bar only. The meter was increasing and increasing and then it stopped! Filled in 6+kg of gas! I told the guy cannot be! At Mandai can fill 9.9kg. He tried again but it leaked at the fill port. Also another thing I need to air. The pump attendants are these PRCs and they were damn rough with the fill port. PLEASE PLEASE! TREAT ANY ORIFICE WITH SOME RESPECT! Don't be so rough! The only time we've been rough to an orifice is when we were birthed! OK maybe some have never been rough with an orifice before (ceasaren).

 

SPC kinda shortsighted. I know from Gilbert the system there is the Nanobox. It is good for 30-250 vehicles a day. SPC should have taken the Microbox with it's larger compressor and storage. That place is Jln Buroh for crying out loud! It's next to JI and comparisons are bound to surface.

 

Have to see how Melchers irons out the Nanobox for operations locally. Get it right and the other two coming up should be better. The fillers look different from the regular ones I encounter in Mandai or JB. Doesn't seem to click on as easily. Maybe change those to the regular ones the rest are using?

[Gilbertaue]

Now point by point:

 

The Jln Buroh Station is still being set-up. The technician is still there - obviously to fine-tune it, you need cars filling up.

 

Argentine norms state that ALL stations must fill up at 200bar. This has two reason: 1) The cylinders are manufactured to be filled at 200bar. No more. If you fill up at a higher pressure, you reduce the lifespan of the cylider. 2) It also stops competition on abusing the cylinders of cars by filling up at a higher level and getting the "I get more mileage" syndrome.

 

2) South American norms state that all passengers are to be out of the car while filling and the engine to be off. No smoking and no mobile phone. I do think this is a good practice since 99% of CNG accidents happen during filling - may I remind everyone of what happened in KL a few months back (not CNG related though). I do thing everyone should respect this. By the way, in a few weeks you will see that you will have to do this at ALL stations - not just at SPC. SCDF will be taking this up.

 

The SPC compressor is a small compressor which is an ideal set-up when you consider that if it was installed in a few more petrol stations, it would be very convenient. - You would not have to build mamooth CNG stations. So let's start with the first one - that is located at a petrol station - and go from there. Be happy that it is even cheaper than Jurong Island and that finally CNG is available at two locations accessible to the general public.

 

I think now that more CNG stations are coming up we will all see some changes. And we will need to respect these changes. Mostly they are there for everyone's good and there for a reason.

[Albeniz]

Find a carburetted one. Cheaper installation with the mixer system. If you can find a B14 Sunny, get it. Melchers installed one into a B14. It was flawlessly cheap!

 

I just did a quick check, the B14 model (from year 1994 to 1998) may not be a carburetted one. The B13 series (pre-1994) might be. But it will a very old car for such conversion.

[Dirtrider_ak]

1. KL case is an installer's fault. Should not be an example of equipment failure.

2. Design to specfication should meet specification.

3. It must be user friendly to do a self recharging, not by a trained personel just like refueling a petrol by yourself. There is enough safty feature even if you smoke there.

4. Cheaper for how long? So this is just a stunt.

5. If it is cheaper make sure it stays that way and not just say. This can means that the current pump will stay cheap and will not rise as I can see the commitment. Well said.

6. South American may be doing this policy, but what about the rest like Malaysia, China, Thailand, India and europe? One country is not enough for proof of concept.

7. That means we have to look for other sources like Global resources.

8. Please 20 years lifespan of tanks even 1/2 lifespan my car is going to be scrapped. So what is the warranty for? for show? specs for fun? a lot of crap.

9. I don't mind writing to SCDF for details. First I will need names and get the SCDF to be certified engineers on GAS storage, then write policies.

10. Come up with ISO standards first then talk. All this in place and should be published if not no such rules.

Edited February 8, 2008 by Dirtrider_ak

[Skoder]

If Genie the GURU says its bad, its gotta be really bad... Take the criticism like a man and improve on it. Thats how SG can evolve, and not compare with some very poor countries and assume our transportation is one of the best. ( I choked and wept when over a radio program in the morning comparing some countries where ppl have to hang on to the sides of the bus for a ride and saying that we have a very good public transport system)

 

We are fortunate to start off at a different elevation and speed, I would strongly encourage ppl to peg our branding of SG at a more qualifying spectrum then to be complacent and put us beside the unfortunate countries and drum our chest and declare we are tarzans of the jungle.

 

CNG is technology of decades, a simple cut and paste and then modify abit to suit our style for the refueling stations is not very difficult for our over paid scholars...

 

Genie, I am totally inspired to get a CNG vehicle, just waiting for the coming COE to fall...again

[Solar]

Only some B13s are carb. And that's the last. B14 onwards are not.

[Dirtrider_ak]

Yes we are not the Malaysia Boleh type. We understand more in depth. CNG is just one alternative fuel. We just can buy a ECU software from europe and convert our cars to LPG plus change the filler coupling device to LPG standard, if not we just make another valve and a gas analyzer for safty check for leaks. But be on guard they will tell you that this system is not design for LPG... to me it is all about air-fuel-ratio. So what does this mean? It can be map, it can be fill to 200 Bar instead of a lower pressure. So is this technology being held back for some reason? So now you know 3.4k for installation is actually expensive and I should expect quality and warranty top notch.

It is not easy to deal with consumer like us because those who do not now never did jumped in to the technology because of doubt.

Edited February 9, 2008 by Dirtrider_ak

[Genie47]

It is good the ironing is still going on.

 

CNG = higher pressures so everyone gets out of the car. Soon people are going to argue that petrol has a lower flashpoint and after some horror videos from "Most Amazing Moments Caught On Film", people are going to ask people to get out of the car while filling petrol.

 

However, I must stress that I as a consumer want to fill my own cylinder. I don't want the attendant coming to me. They have been insistant but I don't want my personal safety in the hands of someone with a "PhD in gas filling". I know you cannot control this. SPC or any operator has to wake up. Want the fuel cheap, cut the unnecessary manpower. Funnel him towards car washes. That spins more money looking at how the queues have been just before CNY!

[Genie47]

My bad. Yes it should be B13 instead of B14. Yeah, it is a pretty old car. Buy a new car and strip out its EFI and replace with 4 trumpet Weber 40DCOE? . OK, what is the whole point of it?!

[Genie47]

COE to fall? Wait long long now that they want to shrink vehicle growth.

 

At least the ironing is going on. No shortage of Prime taxis coming over to fill up when I was there. But the queue was already building up when I left. SPC really dunno what is coming to them setting up just one filling station and next to JI.

[Octopus]

Can take 2x25L. Let the installers sort this out. BTW, you want to retire the G6 and get a 2nd hand car? Find a carburetted one. Cheaper installation with the mixer system. If you can find a B14 Sunny, get it. Melchers installed one into a B14. It was flawlessly cheap!

 

Actually I am considering Lancer GLX, which I think the price is rather attractive now... Don't think I would want to go for another old car cos sometime spare parts difficult to find...

I wonder if the boot for GLX is ok for CNG conversion? I feel my current G6 boot is slightly bigger...

[Dirtrider_ak]

Well said! MIW has educated us very well and they are looking for people like us but we refuse... hahaha Oh well .... back to the stupid issues. I want to take my own responsibilities in filling up myself also and not bound by stupid rules and policies which does not make sense to me. Tell me who write the policies. I would like to know who are they. There is nothing to fear if ones knows all the details and how it works. Agreed?