Felt so cheated by Borneo Motor

[Branteo]

aiya .. if you had a car to trade-in then, you can check the price of your used car again, mine just went up 30k over the last 3 mth.

 

So having the contract nullify may not be a bad thing, your current car may be able to breakeven or earn $$ for you and you can consider not driving. :P

 

 

================================================================================

 

Looking for a 08' CIVIC , pm me if you are selling :P

 

What is your car leh?

 

The increase in valuation surpassed the surge of brand new car prices???

 

08 Civic I don't have. A Feb '07, 1.8L Civic FD1 you keen?

[Andrewlai]

Hi Darryn,

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

 

If I were running a business like this, that is exactly what I would do to maximise profits.

Create more orders than you can fulfill, rather than less.

Borneo actually has been quite a good boy, until now....

[Pisces]

Am I correct to say that those intending to change car today will not lose out much.

They can negate the current high new car price by NOT trading in their old car immediately.

They should buy the new car first.

Then wait for a few months down the road, when the tight supply of second hand cars will drive the resale market even higher. Then they let go of the old car for a higher 'profit', which can help to negate the high COE which their new car cost.

 

Is this a smart move?

The fact is that used car price will NEVER rise as much as COE... at the very best, you will get few extra $K for your used car, while the COE for your new car will rise by at least $10K!!!

[Xtrocious]

Hi Darryn,

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

 

If I were running a business like this, that is exactly what I would do to maximise profits.

Create more orders than you can fulfill, rather than less.

Borneo actually has been quite a good boy, until now....

 

Hmm...why would you do that?

 

Orders =/= to confirmed sale

 

Unless you intend to do some "creative" financial engineering...most companies do not (and cannot) recognise the orders as sales until the product leaves its factory or in this case, delivered to the customer...

 

There is also no real cash flow - your company will go belly up very soon...

 

 

 

 

 

[Fedup-camry]

The fact is that used car price will NEVER rise as much as COE... at the very best, you will get few extra $K for your used car, while the COE for your new car will rise by at least $10K!!!

 

 

each COE price increase may be a few $$K and over a period of time it may have increased by $20k or $30k

 

second hand car price will NOT increase by $20k or $30k / remaining COE life

 

an old Camry 2.5 years old was sold at 70k recently and now transacted around $77k or $78k for a similar car / age / mileage / no of owners

 

the value increase is never proportionate and straight line

 

if it is proportionate, might as well go get the new car = everything is new, plus a full 10 years life, plus latest bells and whistles on the car, plus higher paper value, in case of pre-mature scrap in the future

[Darryn]

Hi Darryn,

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

 

If I were running a business like this, that is exactly what I would do to maximise profits.

Create more orders than you can fulfill, rather than less.

Borneo actually has been quite a good boy, until now....

 

Yes, in the short term the strategy of creating more orders, then Cherry Picking which to settle is the most profitable way to go. But only in the short term.

 

Based on my experience, it has, and will, cost the AD far more to fight this sort of fire in the next 1-6 months than any profit they made from such a strategy. (let's not go down the road of how much they should have been willing to lose to support their brand ok?).

 

I very openly admit that I am an idealist with a pollyanna complex. But my philosophy in life has always been to overdeliver in everything I do - and normally this pays off. Doing everything openly and honestly is the absolute best way to make money (although there are times where I do get taken advantage of). And I would far rather be taken advantage of than life a miserable calculative life.

 

Anyway, let's see what is going to happen in the next round - I reckon around $38 - $ 40 k for Cat A.

[Darryn]

Hmm...why would you do that?

 

Orders =/= to confirmed sale

 

Unless you intend to do some "creative" financial engineering...most companies do not (and cannot) recognise the orders as sales until the product leaves its factory or in this case, delivered to the customer...

 

There is also no real cash flow - your company will go belly up very soon...

 

Is quite straight forward - you have 50 cars to sell. Collect 75 orders. Look at all and then see which are the 50 most profitable.

 

If only doing for one round it works.

 

If want to longer term though it doesn't work - because the time, effort, paperwork, bad publicity etc from the 25 unfilfilled orders costs you much more than the "extra" profit you make.

 

The other strategy you can use is to create "artificial" demand. Take 1000 orders, then start telling everybody that the car is selling out, so I have to increase the price, COE is going up so I have to increase the price etc etc. but you actually only have intention of delivering 300 of the cars - so the costs are much lower, COE drops below expected level, can get freight at lower level (as not paying premium for urgent) etc etc. But this sort of strategy is also playing with fire....

 

BTW though, you must give Qudos to the govt - they have created a system that allows them to take the maximum number of most profitable customers each bidding round, with no negative fallout, not that negative fallout really matters to a body like LTA anyway.

[SLing]

second hand car price will NOT increase by $20k or $30k / remaining COE life

an old Camry 2.5 years old was sold at 70k recently and now transacted around $77k or $78k for a similar car / age / mileage / no of owners

there was a report on the Channel 5 news at 9:30pm either on Monday or Sunday night about Used Car Sales.

 

A Used Car Dealer, who was interviewed, said that he knew of a BMW which the owner bought for 100K and then sold it after 2 years fr 120K. Is this possible at all?

 

Does anyone know how this is done? How much does the re-sale value of a car depreciate annually?

 

[Andrewlai]

Hi Darryn,

 

You make reasonable points....I accept.....Are you a SE?

[Andrewlai]

Hi Darryn,

 

I address your last point...PM Lee did mention at a previous National Day Rally that the government is taking in less from COEs these days....perhaps that should be one of the of the KPIs we measure them by.

 

Andrew

[Darryn]

Hi Darryn,

 

You make reasonable points....I accept.....Are you a SE?

 

No way man, I used to do PR, now I do events, marketing and some writing for a magazine. People can believe or not, but I am in no way associated to Borneo, nor do I have any direct interest in any sort of sales function of any of the ADs. (can do a search of my posts if you like, I have talked briefly about my job functions in the past)

 

I just get upset when I hear some of the comments that have been made. As a foreinger (or perhaps because I am a foreigner?) I took the time and effort to ask the sorts of questions about COE that were NOT asked by those that were "let down" by Borneo. Buying a car, I certainly ask until I feel comfortable with all the answers and the contract, and that I know what is going on and why. Further, if you are spending tens of thousands of dollars on what is essentially a depreciating purchase, there is no such thing as a "stupid question" or any topic that is off limits for the customer to ask the SE....we buy cars waht, once every 5 years? You should ask and ask and ask until you are comfortable with everything - asking about what you don't know is not exactly rocket science - I do it all the time.

 

Also, FTR, I DON"T LIKE the way that the AD bundle prices COE with the car, I don't think its "right" - but I will not single out any single brand for this as they are all doing it.

 

As to calls that Borneo should lose the distributorship over what (I believe) is a very genuine mistake, this is just rubbish. There is a lot of "might have been" and "could have done" which matters little at the end of the day. The only question that you need to ask yourself - have they fulfilled the contract, and secondly, was the consumer in anyway misled? In both cases (to me) its a resounding NO.

 

One bro even posted that the bidding policy in the contract is separated and boxed for emphasis, and is written in straightforward and everyday English.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Darryn

[Maz0608]

my experience with VW have been positive. even after 7pm still can test drive, and even can sms them questions at nite .... and after deciding not buying from them but happen to need to enquire their prices on behalf of relative, they are still very 'on' and still ask me down for coffee and test drive

 

in fact when i go to show room, i prefer to park my car far far away and appear like take bus / walk there lar.....more fun

 

Maybe you got look like some big boss...

My friend and I went to the showroom and nobody bothered to entertain us.

Finally he approached the SE for a test drive and we were ask to wait for a good 15mins despite not many pple in the showroom.

After the test drive, the SE simply walk away from the car park and don't even bother a followup. Really see us no up man!

[Fedup-camry]

looks like a $100k corolla is coming soon, even a tom yam one

 

but last time it was made in jepun more worth it .......

[Jp66]

looks like a $100k corolla is coming soon, even a tom yam one

 

but last time it was made in jepun more worth it .......

The day for Odyssey at $170K is coming back again......

[Andrewlai]

Hi Darryn,

 

Another point I want to make. You say the technique of cherry picking orders is playing with fire.

Now, if nobody makes any noise, then there is NO FIRE....

 

What I believe has happened is that a LOT of people have accepted the idea the dealers may not fulfill their contracts.

BUT the reason why I went to Borneo in the first place is that they have a REPUTATION for securing COEs no matter what the price.

 

So Borneo probably thot: If the rest can do it....so can I what....

 

The question I ask is simply this:

Do we want buying a car to be like buying a lottery ticket or buying a washing machine?

 

If no one makes any noise, if Borneo is allowed to get away with it, very soon you will find that buying a car is like buying lottery.

Collectively, we have a choice.....if we accept THIS situation things will only get worse...if we make enough noise things should get better.

 

Some people have this idea that I can avoid this situation IF I get a guaranteed COE...now I ask....if everyone gets the guaranteed COE, can the COE be guarranteed? I doubt so.

 

Others have the idea that if Borneo is so bad then we should go somewhere else....now if Borneo is allowed to get away with this, others will surely follow....soon everyone in Singapore will be playing the same game.

 

Andrew

[Darryn]

Hi Darryn,

 

Another point I want to make. You say the technique of cherry picking orders is playing with fire.

Now, if nobody makes any noise, then there is NO FIRE....

 

What I believe has happened is that a LOT of people have accepted the idea the dealers may not fulfill their contracts.

BUT the reason why I went to Borneo in the first place is that they have a REPUTATION for securing COEs no matter what the price.

 

So Borneo probably thot: If the rest can do it....so can I what....

 

The question I ask is simply this:

Do we want buying a car to be like buying a lottery ticket or buying a washing machine?

 

If no one makes any noise, if Borneo is allowed to get away with it, very soon you will find that buying a car is like buying lottery.

Collectively, we have a choice.....if we accept THIS situation things will only get worse...if we make enough noise things should get better.

 

Some people have this idea that I can avoid this situation IF I get a guaranteed COE...now I ask....if everyone gets the guaranteed COE, can the COE be guarranteed? I doubt so.

 

Others have the idea that if Borneo is so bad then we should go somewhere else....now if Borneo is allowed to get away with this, others will surely follow....soon everyone in Singapore will be playing the same game.

 

Andrew

 

Andrew,

 

It's actually really simple...and you need to be asking yourself.

 

At the time you bought, what was the quantumn between guaranteed and non guaranteed? At only $1k it tells me that BM were not expecting any volatility in the market right? After all, if they were taking a "big gamble" on the COE, wouldn't they account for this in the "guaranteed" pricing? Wouldn't you?

 

Look at the situation now - what is the quantumn between guaranteed and non guaranteed at most dealers? $3k - $5k right? Doesn't this higher price for the quarantee reflect the level of uncertainty they feel?

 

Looking back to when you booked, they felt pretty confident of themselves if they were pricing the "risk premium" at only $1k yes?

 

And I say again, no (sane) business person, that is established, and wishes to remain established, enters into any deal with the intention of cheating in any way shape or form.

 

[Blackyv]

Agreed. I actually prefer not to be bothered by SEs unless I require assistance.

 

 

yalor... i never like being bother by sales guy in any shop... when i need assistance, i will ask for one, if not, i prefer to walk around by myself..

[Sleepy-T]

Maybe you got look like some big boss...

My friend and I went to the showroom and nobody bothered to entertain us.

Finally he approached the SE for a test drive and we were ask to wait for a good 15mins despite not many pple in the showroom.

After the test drive, the SE simply walk away from the car park and don't even bother a followup. Really see us no up man!

ur experience is totally different from what i experienced,

one I walk in and start to check out the car that I'm eyeing, the SE come over and greet me.

as I'm checking out the car, I told the SE that I will request asistance from them if I required,

after some time after checking out various model, I requested for a Test drive on 2 model, and it was quickly arranged for me with in 15 mins I was in the car testing it. ( feel like 15 mins is a reasonable time to wait)

after testing, invited to have a kopi and Q & A. told the SE that going home to think about that, went down 2 more time before signing my name on the dotted line,