YOU are only worth this much

[Kyrios]

Sorry for hijacking. Please note that I'm not an avid supporter for MIW. For my case, I would rather sit on the fence and not take sides. Not because

 

But think of it this way, if we vote the opposition into the parliament, they just sit there and do nothing? What is the point? We should really be looking at some opposition candidates who have the potential to contribute to Singapore as a nation, and not voting them into the parliament because MIW is not good enough.

 

I believe WP's Low and SPP's Chiam has been in the parliament since about 20 years ago? If the above policy is really from the government and it is posing as a potential problem to Singaporeans? Shouldn't this have been voiced out long ago?

 

... Back to the original thread...

 

Even if the contents were true, why would it bother us? Yes, our government is opening the doors for these FTs with scholarships and PRs. But is this a trend from the SG government only? Or a global trend?

 

From my knowledge, I have seen quite a handful of my friends who were offered with the same scholarships and PR carrots from the European/US/Australian University. They are probably getting better terms than these FTs are getting from SG? And at the end of the day, they are probably not going to stay in the same countries as well and will probably zap the benefits away as much as possible too?

 

Next, people complains that the scholarship should be offered to the local citizens instead of the FTs. But is it really not offered to the local citizens???

 

In fact, the cream of the cohort are probably offered even better terms than these FTs. And they probably get a chance to have a direct route to success in the top MNCs and Government Agencies due to their scholarship received? Is this not enough?

 

 

hmm..'xiaogui'...you FT benefitted from our scheme? Congrats.

[Sabretan]

That is why Tan Jee Say we should focus on more value added or high end Mfg n shift this kind of low end mfg out of Spore since we will not be able to compete w cheaper labour costs n cheaper land costs elsewhere.

 

Pls forgive Yappiez, he is also trying to survive in a highly competitive low end mfg industry. He shld consider relocating his factory to Malaysia or neighbouring countries. If his main biz is from China, he shld juz relocate mfg base there, but keep hq in Spore. This is wat a lot of SMEs are alreadi doing.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Sabretan

[John112]

FT gets 750 basic per month.

For the same job to Singaporeans, I am paying 1600!

Still to add on is travel allowance, medical, +++...

 

For a FT salary 800 with excluding 200 room rental, paid gov worker tax all add up = $1200, this kind of worker is a general worker in factory, for a local worker, market rate u pay around 1200+16% CPF ~ $1300, no one pays $1600 for general worker except you & no FT get below 1K for admin work. Local admin staff barely get >$1500. Here all workers get medical bills & OT whether u black or white.

 

 

[Lethalstrike]

That is why Tan Jee Say we should focus on more value added or high end Mfg n shift this kind of low end mfg out of Spore since we will not be able to compete w cheaper labour costs n cheaper land costs elsewhere.

 

Pls forgive Yappiez, he is also trying to survive in a highly competitive low end mfg industry. He shld consider relocating his factory to Malaysia or neighbouring countries. If his main biz is from China, he shld juz relocate mfg base there, but keep hq in Spore. This is wat a lot of SMEs are alreadi doing.

 

I have a strong suspicion that the incumbent had already failed to shift Singapore from low to high-end MFG, despite all the dollars poured into A*STAR research institutes, universities, SPRING Singapore and the likes.

 

It is nearly impossible for Singapore to sustain a high-end manufacturing industry without first having a strong low-end manufacturing industry to support its activities. This is when the SMEs will have to play a crucial role. But sadly, the current situation does not allow most manufacturing SMEs to thrive in Singapore and they will have to shift their business to elsewhere such as China, Thailand or Vietnam.

 

So its a highly contradicting situation and the incumbents knew they can't have the best of both worlds by continually attracting FDIs from big MNCs and yet, support the local SMEs at the same time.

 

[Kangadrool]

china have a large population and the so called 'talent' that our government is prostituting to is but a drop of water in the ocean! There are pple saying that this fts pay are equivelant or maybe higher than our own citizens (not to sure about this) but if it is true then doesn't it sound so wrong! and i am not talking about fw hor! ft and fw is 2 distinct species!

 

In China and Malaysia, they are also having problems filling these low skilled positions. In China, they have resorted to rural area recruitment, in Malaysia, from their neighbouring countries also.

[Readonly]

unfortunately your wish will not be accomplished. Why I said that is because in another thread "I am a PAP supporter", many choose to vote for PAP because they claimed opp parties' manifesto for their area are not up to their standard. so sad they are looking for self-interests only cannot see the bigger picture. like some said, after GE, the govt is gonna fixed the commoners again.

 

for folks in that thread, they got their own reasons.

if they choose to be myopic or self centred, its their vote, its their right :)

 

from the GE of 2001 to present, i have seen policies after policies that just disrupts our lives.

we have lived thru it, brushing it aside as small annoyances.

 

last election the pap got 66.6% and still they did not implement ANY welfare plans for its citizens, except that package during recession, which did not benefit everyone.

 

lets see the results for this election, hopefully some opposition can get in parliament and raise questions to all that the government has done wrong and the policies gets TWEAKED.

 

else with singapore as it is right now, its not surprising when singaporeans are going overseas to deliver their babies.

 

 

 

 

[Chilli_crab]

But think of it this way, if we vote the opposition into the parliament, they just sit there and do nothing? What is the point?

Given that there were only 2 opposition MPs, their role was limited to questioning the Ministers on policy decisions. That is something fruitful, isn't it? If you observe recent days' events. Just the mere sense of overwhelming resentment among the voters could cause so many sweeteners to be given to us. Imagine what can happen when the opposition members are actually voted in.

 

I believe WP's Low and SPP's Chiam has been in the parliament since about 20 years ago? If the above policy is really from the government and it is posing as a potential problem to Singaporeans? Shouldn't this have been voiced out long ago?

Voiced out by the PAP MPs? What hard-hitting and truth-probing questions would Yes-men ask? Besides, with the overwhelming majority, PAP Ministers could simply give vague answers.

 

Even if the contents were true, why would it bother us? Yes, our government is opening the doors for these FTs with scholarships and PRs. But is this a trend from the SG government only? Or a global trend?

Even if it was a global trend, we ask that Singaporeans be given the first priority.

 

 

 

[Tedlhw]

though i am very against the influx of FTs, i still treat them like a fellow being and have never look at them with a different perspective.

 

 

i was having lunch with a PRC colleague. shes a 24yr old gal who just graduated from NTU and now working in a MNC while waiting for PR approval.

 

 

just started a casual topic like, wad do u like about this country and how are u coping

 

so we get the standard reply. wad stuns me, was the answer to my next question.

 

 

 

me: " so wad makes u decide to come here"

 

PRC: " i didnt"

 

me: " wa, ur parents force u here or ur bf is here"

 

PRC: "neither, ur SG gahment invited us here"

 

 

me: " huh, wad do u mean"

 

PRC: " ur MOE went to our school in our village and told us they URGENTLY need students here, infact they were hardselling the whole scheme and many of us signed up"

 

 

me: " huh, wad did they offer"

 

 

PRC: " they offer us, ALL Expenses paid for our fees in NTU, including lodging and we even get pocket money"

 

 

me: *mouth open

 

 

PRC: "on top of that, they have send me the INVITATION letter to apply for PR after we grad"

 

 

 

 

 

 

i seriously begin to wonder the magitude of the FT problem has many more sides that many of us do not know,

 

i lose my pride as a sgporean after hearing this and i really wonder do they really care ?

 

 

 

if u give a PR who starts a business here and bring jobs to sgporeans, by all means.

 

 

BUT if u choose to so-call groom a FT and seemingly used up tax payers money to fund it, i totally do not understand the reason why.

 

 

my guess is, they bring in more FTs, give them the candy and they bring in more FTs, which i belive is working because she told her friends about this scheme and many of her friends are here now, at the expenses of home-grown sgporeans.

 

i myself was deprived the chance of studying in a local U.

 

 

but yet a villager from a faraway land with no visible society contributions gets the chance of studying here, all expenses PAID.

 

 

 

are we really worth this much to the gahment ?

 

is it really we got not enough pple here to study in NTU ? then why are they rejecting sgporeans who meet the pre-requisites ?

 

WTF!!!

I hope what you said is true.

If this is true, and can be backed up with evidence, i really feel shortchanged man...

 

ALL expenses paid, while i as a Singaporean had to take a loan for my uni fees (my family was poor) and work at the same time for my pocket money...

 

Wow, really painful to know.

 

[Chilli_crab]

Wow, really painful to know.

You can let PAP know how painful it is on 7 May.

[Tedlhw]

Ah yes becos I knew this for so long I already forgotten/accept it, even till now FT are offered to study PHD in NUS/NTU, every month they paid 2.5K free pocket money & waivered semester tuition fee, then with this 2.5K after lodging & food, average is left <1K, they can still send this money back home to feed papa/mama/bro/sis becos sinkie dollar has very big exchange rate elsewhere.

 

But ok, to be fair, my other ex-colleague from Msia went to UK to study PHD on scholarship was paid around 1.5K pound too per month, after living expense left 500pound to send home. But, can sg be compared with uk?

 

I think sponsoring PHDs are ok, cos they are probably a very small group of these people, and they are geenrally quite smart.

What i cannot tahan is sponsoring everything for a run of the mill undergrad...

[Tedlhw]

The recruitment of foreign (esp China) students by our gahmen to study here has been going on a long long time already. It's not just the current EM or recent MOE policy.

 

Though I'd no idea of the numbers annually and that they're all fully funded! I'm really shocked if this is true.

 

Traditionally since the 70's, we've offered ASEAN students with very good results with ASEAN scholarships (no bond) and (only good) HSC (A-level equivalent) M'sian students with PSC teaching scholarships (bonded after graduation and must study teachng diploma to become teachers) at university level (where all fees and expenses are paid) but both of these are very small in numbers I think.

 

ASEAN scholar where got problem, these are really 'kiang' one.

i admit i not as 'kiang' as them.

 

But to go village to jio people come Singapore with all these carrots?

Hear already very tulan, cos i went through quite a bit to get an education.

Gave up hall, cos too ex.

And here you have fully paid, non-scholar guys?

 

besides anecdotal evidence, anyone has a brochure or other forms of evidence of this happening?

 

[Tedlhw]

Bring in foreigner to boost population, create jobs is alright. But to even sponsored them, give them free education and job, that is too much. And paid for by tax payer money.. Too much..

 

Fully agree with you.

Use them to boost economy, tap on their expertise, build house, give them a bit of things, i'm ok with that.

But to fully sponsor...

Some more the not so 'kiang' one...

i just want to see some hard evidence to convince myself, cos on the internet, anecdotal evidence can be misleading.

 

Really quite tulan to be hearing this.

[Tedlhw]

I heard from a MY colleague that in MY, they also came across this....offered Polytechnic and all paid for including PR.

 

If all these are true, I am very sad and disappointed by this concept.

 

Wah lau!!! Now Poly also can!!!????

[Jim]

There are different type of foreigners in Singapore and the problems they create is complicated, but it is typical of a PAP supporter to make sweeping statements.

 

When it comes to low income foreigners, the main problem is really how the government closes one eye to employer abuses. How many times have seen maids getting abused, sick construction worker left in a drain to die, employment agents offering PRC workers who will work for free since the worker already paid the agent.

 

If the employer can choose between slaves they can abuse and Singaporeans who can walk away, who will want to hire Singaporeans?

 

The problem can be solved very simply. If the government just put in a little bit more effort to protect the interests of these low income foreign workers, so the employers are less free to kick them around, then hiring Singaporeans will suddenly become more attractive.

 

But why would the government do that? Cheap labour => High corporate profits => High CEO pay => High ministerial pay

They know which side their bread is buttered.

 

Take a look at this speech by Vincent Cheng:

 

The government has been sloppy in protecting low income foreign workers since the 70s, and dare you speak up, they lock you up and label you a communist.

 

BTW, I'm not a supporter of SDP. Probably never will.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Jim

[Jamesgetz]

If what you had said is true, somebody deserves to be shot after 7th May.

 

yes it's true. u can verify with your friends who are working as teachers or ask your relatives who are schooling. some of the top schools go to china to recruit students. these PRC students can join s'pore schs during secondary years. objective is to recruit foreign talents and get them to stay as citizens eventually...

 

nowadays, competition from FT doesn't just occur at workplace... it starts from school days.

 

 

[Lethalstrike]

yes it's true. u can verify with your friends who are working as teachers or ask your relatives who are schooling. some of the top schools go to china to recruit students. these PRC students can join s'pore schs during secondary years. objective is to recruit foreign talents and get them to stay as citizens eventually...

 

nowadays, competition from FT doesn't just occur at workplace... it starts from school days.

 

Its really a desperate and myopic move by the incumbents if so.

 

Foreigners will simply sign up to reap the benefits accorded to them by our government, regardless of whether they will stay as citizens or pack up their bags and leave once their term is up. So in short, we are really taking a huge gamble on our policies here, at the expense of opportunities given to locals and taxpayers' money.

 

Strangely, this sounds like one of their miscalculated policies to limit newborns to 2 per family 2 decades ago, which lead our problems of importing FTs now.

 

[Greatbirdlegend]

Sorry for hijacking. Please note that I'm not an avid supporter for MIW. For my case, I would rather sit on the fence and not take sides. Not because

 

But think of it this way, if we vote the opposition into the parliament, they just sit there and do nothing? What is the point? We should really be looking at some opposition candidates who have the potential to contribute to Singapore as a nation, and not voting them into the parliament because MIW is not good enough.

 

I believe WP's Low and SPP's Chiam has been in the parliament since about 20 years ago? If the above policy is really from the government and it is posing as a potential problem to Singaporeans? Shouldn't this have been voiced out long ago?

 

... Back to the original thread...

 

Even if the contents were true, why would it bother us? Yes, our government is opening the doors for these FTs with scholarships and PRs. But is this a trend from the SG government only? Or a global trend?

 

From my knowledge, I have seen quite a handful of my friends who were offered with the same scholarships and PR carrots from the European/US/Australian University. They are probably getting better terms than these FTs are getting from SG? And at the end of the day, they are probably not going to stay in the same countries as well and will probably zap the benefits away as much as possible too?

 

Next, people complains that the scholarship should be offered to the local citizens instead of the FTs. But is it really not offered to the local citizens???

 

In fact, the cream of the cohort are probably offered even better terms than these FTs. And they probably get a chance to have a direct route to success in the top MNCs and Government Agencies due to their scholarship received? Is this not enough?

 

Way to sit on the fence and not take sides.

Yep doing a great job there.

[Vhtfhwlego]

I am in SME metal working industry. Workforce about 300pax. In shopfloor alone.

Less than 10 Singaporeans.

 

The extraordinary things the FT can give is to

- work in the sun, rain, bad conditions.

- work tons of OT

- burn weekends

- work more than 14hrs per day if required

In short from a business point of view, more committed.

 

Singaporeans cost more and have limited commitment to the company due to many personal activities like family/ friends/ relatives....

Why are some Singaporeans jobless? BECAUSE THEY WANT CHOOSEY.

- High pay,

- nice environment,

- pretty girls,

- nice lunch areas,

- good prospects,

- work life balance

- etc

 

If dont get FT to do these work, who wants?

Hope that 30 years later, the tide turned against you.

Your children unable to find a job even as jr executive in a local firm as everybody is engaging FT/FW.

You will start to fund them until they are in their 25 or even 30.

And if that your children is a son, he needs to get married due to "shot gun"...

No job, no CPF, unable to buy house to stay...

You start to fund for your son again....

 

Since young, your son thinks that money is easy to earn as you able to cut cost so way that you have a company of 300pax. He starts to spent more then you can provide....

Took in bad advice and start to spend more of your wealth....

10 more years later....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are bed ridden but with a roof over your hat