Porsche

[Soonmunn]

Thats very true...but for some reason some Porker fans just dont like the affiliation with the beetle and VW....

 

I even saw a self-confessed "badge whore" some where in the above discussion...i think we are all guilty to a certain extent of loving the badge but the looming question is....if you take the badge away from the Porker, what makes a Porker a Porker?

 

What are the essential defining attributes of a Porsche?

 

And this really is a honest bona fide question as I also saw the intense debate above....so bear with me pls???

 

Actually, a 911 is a beetle if early design of the car is taken into consideration.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Soonmunn

[Oakleykoh]

Actually, a 911 is a beetle if early design of the car is taken into consideration.

yea..it is essentially the beetle and built for the soviet..

There again with the merging of these carmakers with rich racing historys, it is inevitable that certain DNA will be lost in them.

But we still love and maybe complain over minor issues?

 

Love what you have now and adore what they can give to you each day on the road.

The sound of your engine and exhaust note to the feedback you get from your steering wheels each time you corner.

 

This is a thread to share to start off..yea?

[Throttle2]

Looking forward to clearing carbon on Sat/Sun morning! Heheheh. Any plans for the weekend with the 997?

 

 

no plans mate, my 911 is a family car...for fetching the kids and the wife....really...

[Throttle2]

Thats very true...but for some reason some Porker fans just dont like the affiliation with the beetle and VW....

 

I even saw a self-confessed "badge whore" some where in the above discussion...i think we are all guilty to a certain extent of loving the badge but the looming question is....if you take the badge away from the Porker, what makes a Porker a Porker?

 

What are the essential defining attributes of a Porsche?

 

And this really is a honest bona fide question as I also saw the intense debate above....so bear with me pls???

 

 

I think the issue begins when one cannot take as well as he can give.

then all the anger, face, ego come into play.

come in to prick must be willing to get pricked

 

There's no end nor point in linking up the ownership and design and then to start claiming that one is the same as the other. Same father same mother, also dont produce same person.

It is also naive to think that the people in here dont have the basic knowledge of the history.

 

As a fellow forumer has so rightly pointed out, we are merely just more interested in discussing what is closer to our everyday lives. (ie the driving experience, the maintenance and mods and the comaraderie being an actual owner of the car) Nothing against Nightwind nor anyone.

 

The defining attributes of the 911? (note that I did not just say Porsche)

1. The unmistakeable body lines including the wide rear fenders and the distictive headlights

2. The rear mounted engine

3. The rawness of the drive

4. The old school sound of the engine

5. The performance capabilities

6. The freaking price

 

It's what allows it to be called a Modern Classic

 

Boils down to this phrase:-

"If we have to explain, you probably wont understand anyway"

 

but do i think it's the best car in the world? NO

Edited October 11, 2012 by Throttle2

[987]

 

i don't quite agree with 6. The freaking price (cos that applies to most cars in singapore... ha ha ha)

 

to add to the list you've got... timeless styling

[Throttle2]

i don't quite agree with 6. The freaking price (cos that applies to most cars in singapore... ha ha ha)

 

to add to the list you've got... timeless styling

 

 

My buddy just got a silver 987 recently.

very nice example, low mileage and clean

 

 

[Remus325]

What are the essential defining attributes of a Porsche?

 

And this really is a honest bona fide question as I also saw the intense debate above....so bear with me pls???

 

To me the defining characteristic of a Porsche 911 is the rear mounted boxer flat six engine. That alone is responsible for much of the driving characteristics of the car. The rear mounted boxer flat six engine explains

 

(i) the amazing steering feel (because there is less weight and inertia on the front steering wheels),

(ii) the superb traction under acceleration (because most of the weight is on the rear driving wheels),

(iii) great balance under braking (because not too much weight is on the front so the rears do not come loose under hard braking),

(iv) low centre of gravity (since a boxer engine can be placed very low in the chassis),

(v) the unique flat six sound, and

(v) quirky cornering dynamics (most of the weight is hanging off the rear of the car, you do not want to lift off throttle mid corner for instance as you will risk losing rear traction so corner entry speed has to be judged correctly, the car also does not respond well to S curves due to the rapid weight transfer from the rear to the front to the rear which unsettles the car)

 

 

 

[Theoldjaffa]

to me, the defining characteristic is the design (or rather silhouette or shape), the rear mounted engine and most importantly is the revered "911" badge who has become synonymous with Porsche.

 

and throttle is right, the porsche is not the best car in the world. the ALFA ROMEO IS. heh heh heh

 

ok in case anyone takes it too seriously, i'm just jesting. ok.

[Theoldjaffa]

To me the defining characteristic of a Porsche 911 is the rear mounted boxer flat six engine. That alone is responsible for much of the driving characteristics of the car. The rear mounted boxer flat six engine explains

 

(i) the amazing steering feel (because there is less weight and inertia on the front steering wheels),

(ii) the superb traction under acceleration (because most of the weight is on the rear driving wheels),

(iii) great balance under braking (because not too much weight is on the front so the rears do not come loose under hard braking),

(iv) low centre of gravity (since a boxer engine can be placed very low in the chassis),

(v) the unique flat six sound, and

(v) quirky cornering dynamics (most of the weight is hanging off the rear of the car, you do not want to lift off throttle mid corner for instance as you will risk losing rear traction so corner entry speed has to be judged correctly, the car also does not respond well to S curves due to the rapid weight transfer from the rear to the front to the rear which unsettles the car)

would like to take a ride in one, if possible

 

Porker.. will u be changing to a porsche anytime soon?

[Soonmunn]

I agree, straight six is one of the defining attributes. Rear Wheel drive is another. But as we all know BMWs also are renowned for these two traits....

 

But if u add to your list the unique design it inherited from its Beetle heritage, then you have a combination of traits that is truly unique and which, in sum, appear not to be copied in other cars....

 

Through the yrs i dont think Porsche departed much from this winning formula, although i also have to say that i am not a porker fan....

 

To me the defining characteristic of a Porsche 911 is the rear mounted boxer flat six engine. That alone is responsible for much of the driving characteristics of the car. The rear mounted boxer flat six engine explains

 

(i) the amazing steering feel (because there is less weight and inertia on the front steering wheels),

(ii) the superb traction under acceleration (because most of the weight is on the rear driving wheels),

(iii) great balance under braking (because not too much weight is on the front so the rears do not come loose under hard braking),

(iv) low centre of gravity (since a boxer engine can be placed very low in the chassis),

(v) the unique flat six sound, and

(v) quirky cornering dynamics (most of the weight is hanging off the rear of the car, you do not want to lift off throttle mid corner for instance as you will risk losing rear traction so corner entry speed has to be judged correctly, the car also does not respond well to S curves due to the rapid weight transfer from the rear to the front to the rear which unsettles the car)

Edited October 11, 2012 by Soonmunn

[Remus325]

I agree, straight six is one of the defining attributes. Rear Wheel drive is another. But as we all know BMWs also are renowned for these two traits....

 

As mentioned, the defining characteristic of the porsche 911 is the boxer flat six rear mounted engine. Flat six is not the same as inline six or straight six. In a flat six you have two banks of three horizontally opposed cylinders on each side of a central crankcase. With an inline or straight six you have all six cylinders lined up in a straight line along the crankcase. Rear mounted is not the same as rear wheel drive. The 911 is not always rear wheel drive (there are four wheel drive variants like the C4, C4S, T4, T4S, Turbo, Turbo S) and the engines in modern bmws are front mounted and not rear mounted AFAIK

 

Illustration of a flat six engine

 

Illustration of a straight six engine

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2012 by Remus325

[Soonmunn]

Oops my mistake...sorry..u r right..rear engined and not RWD....Flat, not stright six...again my apologies..

 

And I also conceed my ignorance on the specific Porsche makes so thanks for setting me right....as u can see I never had the privillige of owning, let alone driving one....

 

R there any other makes out there with these two attributes? If not then u have nailed down your crucial defining chartacteristics of the Porsche.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Soonmunn

[Soonmunn]

Assuming both engines are of same size capacities, does Flat Six offer more efficient power delivery system than Straight Six?

 

Are all Porsches Rear Engined and Flat Six?

 

And are there any other brands with this same set-up?

 

Thanks again for the clarification...

[1fast1]

Assuming both engines are of same size capacities, does Flat Six offer more efficient power delivery system than Straight Six?

 

Not really, but a flat configuration helps keep the centre of gravity low, and the car more stable.

 

Are all Porsches Rear Engined and Flat Six?

 

911s, yes. Rear-engined, flat six, either naturally aspirated or turbocharged. Other models - no. Caymans are mid-engined but still have a flat six engine. Cayennes are front-engined and have a V8 engine (cylinders oriented 4-a-side along the arms of a "V"-shape). The older 944 model is a front engined, inline 4 (cylinders oriented vertically).

 

And are there any other brands with this same set-up?

 

Subarus come closest with their Impreza, Forrester and Legacy models. They are flat 4 models, though (only 4 cylinders, not 6). The turbo-charged versions that go into the WRX, STI, Legacy GT and Forrester Turbo models make very good power for the capacity and amenable to making more power with easy mods, which is why they're sought after as "boy-racer" cars. They have a beautiful sound (I feel it's even more distinctive and nicer than the Porsche sound, honestly) - and I've owned 2 WRXs before (note my username).

 

The new Toyota FT86/Subaru BRZ (Subaru designed the engine) uses the same flat 4 engine, albeit naturally aspirated. This is done to keep the centre of gravity low to aid cornering stability. The car is all about handling, after all.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Turboflat4

[Relagsingh]

Not really, but a flat configuration helps keep the centre of gravity low, and the car more stable.

 

Are all Porsches Rear Engined and Flat Six?

 

911s, yes. Rear-engined, flat six, either naturally aspirated or turbocharged. Other models - no. Caymans are mid-engined but still have a flat six engine. Cayennes are front-engined and have a V8 engine (cylinders oriented 4-a-side along the arms of a "V"-shape). The older 944 model is a front engined, inline 4 (cylinders oriented vertically).

 

And are there any other brands with this same set-up?

 

Subarus come closest with their Impreza, Forrester and Legacy models. They are flat 4 models, though (only 4 cylinders, not 6). The turbo-charged versions that go into the WRX, STI, Legacy GT and Forrester Turbo models make very good power for the capacity and amenable to making more power with easy mods, which is why they're sought after as "boy-racer" cars. They have a beautiful sound (I feel it's even more distinctive and nicer than the Porsche sound, honestly) - and I've owned 2 WRXs before (note my username).

 

The new Toyota FT86/Subaru BRZ (Subaru designed the engine) uses the same flat 4 engine, albeit naturally aspirated. This is done to keep the centre of gravity low to aid cornering stability. The car is all about handling, after all.

 

 

Just a note that the EZ 3.0/3.6 ltr NA flat six were used on the Legacy n Tribeca. But the best is still the 4 cyl AVCS EJ20 blocks.

[1fast1]

Just a note that the EZ 3.0/3.6 ltr NA flat six were used on the Legacy n Tribeca. But the best is still the 4 cyl AVCS EJ20 blocks.

 

Thanks for the correction, I've not been keeping that current with the newer Scoobies.

[Throttle2]

Together with all these engine talk sorted out, we can clearly conclude that despite some roots linked to VW due to the german ancestry, the 911 bodyline is 100% distinctive for the last 48 yrs and takes after no other car outside the Porsche brand family. Corporate ownership and shareholding is a totally seperate issue, likewise in the Volvo-Geely case.

 

From the side view of the new 911, as mentioned in my earlier post, it does seem to have chosen to go the way of other sleeker supercars. but the bodyline remains 911, the performance, the sound, the capabilities remain 911.

 

It is rather the other cars which have been doing the following, having used the dead Ferdinand's 911 design time and time again (some blatantly) as we can still see on the roads today. And its normal, thats evolution of the car design as a whole.

 

I think this charateristic of being distinct in certain ways is evident in most brands especially the premium ones that have been around for more than quite a while.

It's the only way to achieve identity for the brand. any brand. There is no debate about this.

 

on leave taking it easy, long post...

[Mamamia]

a lot of people have the perception that porsches are not that fast. some would try their luck and hassle for a street race.

 

i'm not as lucky as you, i've had lambos and r8s harassed me before, i was like wtf?!?!? go pick on a car of your car's capacity lor... anyway...

 

Around 70% of the owners cant drive properly around corners and are only good for straight line. Bring them to the corners and smoke them. Best way to bruise their egos.