Roundabout rules: was NTUC right?

[OTOT]

err.. I took a look at the picture posted by you. There were clearly two lanes on the roundabout and your wife was trying to exit by cutting across from the outer lane during a very busy period. She should have been more careful and patient before exiting.

[Mystupidger]

actually TS should know that if you want to exit that lane from the roundabout, you should always be on the left lane, unless both lanes are meant to turn in...which is obviously not... if i were the car on the left, i would sure knock the guy and claim him gao gao.. lol

[Galantspeedz]

animated gif for u. moment of langgar.

 

you very bad leh....... later you kena added into his blog..

[Altivo]

i got one question, since u are so well versed in this topic. the blue car enter with red car at same entrance/ exit. thats why u say blue car must die die exit at 1st or latest 2nd exit and cannot proceed further than 2nd exit rite? i get this.

 

but what if red car enter roundabout alone, and blue car enters at next exit/ entrance, joining red car side by side? means blue car dun have to exit at the accident exit right? cuz to him, his compulsary exit is the one after the accident exit tio bo? like that how to count?

 

A round about is simply no different from a usual cross junction. The only difference is that car from all directions can enter the round about at the same time.

 

Now, put it into the context of a usual cross junction which is 2 lanes per direction. Do you do a left turn from the right lane? No right?

 

Unless the directional arrow clearly state that left lane is for Left Turn ONLY, otherwise, you're not allowed to turn left from the outer lane.

[Mustank]

A round about is simply no different from a usual cross junction. The only difference is that car from all directions can enter the round about at the same time.

 

Now, put it into the context of a usual cross junction which is 2 lanes per direction. Do you do a left turn from the right lane? No right?

 

Unless the directional arrow clearly state that left lane is for Left Turn ONLY, otherwise, you're not allowed to turn left from the outer lane.

 

[Altivo]

A round about is simply no different from a usual cross junction. The only difference is that car from all directions can enter the round about at the same time.

 

Now, put it into the context of a usual cross junction which is 2 lanes per direction. Do you do a left turn from the right lane? No right?

 

Unless the directional arrow clearly state that left lane is for Left Turn ONLY, otherwise, you're not allowed to turn left from the outer lane.

 

To further add on. You can only turn left on from the outer lane ONLY when the directional arrows state so.

 

See below cross junction at AMK Ave 6

 

Edited August 13, 2013 by Altivo

[Ender]

Okie... got picture got talk. Taken from google map

 

Here's the exit to Jurong Town Hall.

 

Let's say the blue lorry is the blue car in the accident and the silver car is Mr Han.

 

The two lanes at JTH is meant for vehicles on the outer lanes. See the red arrows.

 

Mr Han which is represented the silver car is clearly in the wrong if he tried to exit from the inner lane (even if his signals are turned on)

 

From the lane marking in the picture, this is not about roundabout anymore. It's more of the red car switching lane and bang the blue car who is in lane.

[Mockngbrd]

i used to think roundabouts were good becos it FORCES drivers to be more alert... unfortunately in SG it no work.

[Deckbuild]

I kena once from a taxi driver claiming I don't know how to drive, what happen was I was in the inner lane and my exit point is the 3rd exit meaning to say my 3 o'clock. He was at the outer lane which means he suppose to exit the 2nd meaning to say 12 o'clock, when I signal left to exit, he purposely speed up to block me at 3rd exit, and challenge me to get off my car after that, but he dare not when I'm standing beside him... I think front and back camera is a must now, too many idiots on the road....

 

 

I'm car C, taxi = car B

Edited August 13, 2013 by Deckbuild

[Fibo]

Largely, my opinion is both are responsible for the accident.

 

Blue car should try to get into inner lane of roundabout as soon as he entered the roundabout (since he is not taking Jurong Town Hall exit). If the traffic didn't permit him to do so by the time he reached Jurong Town Hall exit, he had to exercise extra caution if he wanted to continue the roundabout (because there are driver like Red car, 'exit at last minute' ). Blue car cannot assume he can stay in outer land of roundabout continuously and exit whenever he want.

 

the other way for the red car. Red car should try to get into outer lane of roundabout as soon as he entered the roundabout. If the traffic didn't permit him to do so by the time he reached Jurong Town Hall, he had to exercise extra caution if he wanted to exit Jurong Town Hall. Red car cannot assume he can stay in inner lane of roundabout continuously and exit whenever he want.

 

Both wrong roundabout practice happened at the wrong (same) time is the problem here.

 

The keyword here is defensive driving - practise defensive driving, don't insist on your right of way.

 

It happens everyday driver don't drive correctly in roundabout - abrupt entering and exiting the roundabout. But why we still don't see this accident happen at all our roundabout everyday? It is because many people exercise caution and some practise defensive driving, to give way or able to avoid collision with the type of driver from these blue and red car in this incident.

 

Driver from Blue and Red car uses roundabout every now and then. The reason why they don't get collision every time they use roundabout is because there are some cautious driver able to accommodate or avoid them. But if they continue to drive this way, it's a matter of time accident will happen. So, what happened is exactly the time it will happen, that is, 'unskilled' driver meets another 'unskilled' driver - bang!

 

Having said these, I feel that how the cars collided determines the percentage of responsibility. If blue car hit the left side of red car, blue car bears higher responsibility. If red car hit the right side of blue car, he bears higher responsibility. If it's corners, 50-50?

[Nicholas]

i got one question, since u are so well versed in this topic. the blue car enter with red car at same entrance/ exit. thats why u say blue car must die die exit at 1st or latest 2nd exit and cannot proceed further than 2nd exit rite? i get this.

 

but what if red car enter roundabout alone, and blue car enters at next exit/ entrance, joining red car side by side? means blue car dun have to exit at the accident exit right? cuz to him, his compulsary exit is the one after the accident exit tio bo? like that how to count?

 

pls... wait for nicolas to answer this... i really curious about this....

 

Hi, I'm afraid that I'm not well versed in this topic like you think I am, I'm simply agreeing to the highway code and disagreeing that Mrs Han is 100% liable.

 

The scenario that you said, should seldom happen if blue car gives way to traffic in roundabout, that is also in highway code. This means that you should wait until roundabout traffic is clear before the cars from your side move off.

 

Like some said, it should probably be 50/50 because cars on left should know there is a possibility that car on right side may turn left and keep a lookout for each other.

 

I made this topic because I'm not so sure myself and want to hear the views of others. My conclusion so far is the same as what some have said. Both failed to lookout for one another so they should be at 50/50 fault. And if we are at a roundabout and want to exit, always try to keep left which is fail safe.

[Deckbuild]

Hi, I'm afraid that I'm not well versed in this topic like you think I am, I'm simply agreeing to the highway code and disagreeing that Mrs Han is 100% liable.

 

The scenario that you said, should seldom happen if blue car gives way to traffic in roundabout, that is also in highway code. This means that you should wait until roundabout traffic is clear before the cars from your side move off.

 

Like some said, it should probably be 50/50 because cars on left should know there is a possibility that car on right side may turn left and keep a lookout for each other.

 

I made this topic because I'm not so sure myself and want to hear the views of others. My conclusion so far is the same as what some have said. Both failed to lookout for one another so they should be at 50/50 fault. And if we are at a roundabout and want to exit, always try to keep left which is fail safe.

 

As long as you hit into the round about turn in future, keep looking left and right, and try to keep extreme left. There are alot of drivers out there out to disturb others... Pioneer circus is one of the killer, everyone wanna rush in, if you are at inner circle, they rush in from another entrance, you also LPPL cannot exit liao.... Too many ppl don't observe rules, the only way is act very defensively.

[Kr_toy]

I think the key of this is just the arrow marking on the road. It seems for this 2 cars direction, there is no arrow marking on the roundabout even though there are 2 arrow marking for the cars from the right directions of these 2 cars.

If that is the case, I think NTUC is correct on the assessment since without explicit arrow marking, people should not go out from inner lane.

If TS cars and the other came from the right direction(from West Coast Road to Jalan Buroh), definitely the TS is on the right, since the 2 arrow stated both lanes must go left.

 

I think the road marking is abit confusing, but I believe NTUC is right, priority for right lane is when entering round about, but go out must be from outer lane if there is no marking.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Kr_toy

[OTOT]

this looked more for driving school compound.

This is real. I stayed in Swindon for a year in 1996 and the multiple roundabouts within roundabout do exist. The only difference is the traffic is not as heavy except for weekend after a football match but engaging the roundabout can be confusing and scary experience for first timer..

[Civic6228]

So u are on the left most lane which allow u to turn left or go straight. And u decide to go strait but because the traffic light is red. U stop and Kenna bang backside u are in the wrong because u should switch lane???

 

 

Deleted ... dont want to waste brand width... my apologies

Edited August 13, 2013 by Civic6228

[Nicholas]

As long as you hit into the round about turn in future, keep looking left and right, and try to keep extreme left. There are alot of drivers out there out to disturb others... Pioneer circus is one of the killer, everyone wanna rush in, if you are at inner circle, they rush in from another entrance, you also LPPL cannot exit liao.... Too many ppl don't observe rules, the only way is act very defensively.

 

100% agreed!

[Kangadrool]

- article start -

 

 

 

"I found out that NTUC Income don't understand certain Highway Code rules during our exchange of emails regarding a disputed accident claim.

 

NTUC Income then put 100% liability on my side when infact the other driver was in the wrong.

 

This matter was then referred to Fidrec for adjudication which, to my surprise, also favoured NTUC Income's decision 100%

 

I checked with LTA regarding the Highway code rules and confirmed NTUC Income's interpretation was different.

 

NTUC Income said they will still stand firm on their assessment and had already compensated the other party and closed the case as it was already adjudicated by Fidrec.

 

 

 

This is what happened:

 

Last year, 7th Aug 2012, my wife was involved in a minor side-collision accident in Pandan Circle.

 

Ref to above diagram 3.18 as an illustration of the roundabout.

My car (shown in red) wanted to exit from the right-lane to the 2nd exit (Jurong Town Hall road). The other car (shown in blue) should also exit base on the general rule, but he (blue car) wanted to continue to the 3rd exit (West Coast road). Therefore this accident happened.

 

The other driver blames her for the accident and does not believe there are roundabout rules. Saying all vehicles must exit from the left lane, vehicles on the left lane can proceed all the way in the roundabout. I told him he needed to keep-right lane when approaching roundabout in order to turn right (3rd exit) base on general rules of roundabout.

 

As we could not agree, we decided to report to insurer for 3rd party claim. Both are insured with NTUC INCOME.

The whole incident was captured in my car's camera system. The dispute mainly boils down to the rules of the road. I submitted the footage to NTUC Income.

 

To my surprise, NTUC Income informed me liability at my side.

I then requested for their detail report as a claim was made into my policy. They rejected my request as I know they are wrong in their assessment.

I wrote to MAS and was told they cannot do anything as it was NTUC Income's commercial decision and Fidrec already gone through it.

 

This story is quite lengthy but I have uploaded more photos, letters and the video to my blog at: http://jkhan999.blogspot.sg/

 

My experience tells me this : "Never go to Fidrec for motor accident dispute. NTUC Income will tell them not to listen". Ntuc Income have changed some of our traffic rules.

 

 

 

Mr. Han JK"

 

Source: http://therealsingapore.com/content/ntuc-i...asic-road-rules

Blog with more explanations: http://jkhan999.blogspot.sg/

 

 

- article end -

 

 

Keeping left to go 3rd or 4th exit is just wrong isn't it? That means if NTUC is right, cars on the right lanes must filter left in round about to exit?

 

Go there and take a good look again. This roundabout could be "confusing" or different from others.

 

Not too sure about your direction to JTH Road, but the one heading to WCHW, if you are on the right lane, can turn right only (as indicated on the road markings). The left lane is meant for heading WCHW and bearing right to Jalan Buroh. So, if one is on the right and insist to head straight towards WCHW = BANG!!! (if the left vehicle suddenly change lane to the right lane on the slip road of WCHW).

 

So, if the direction to JTHR is the mirror of direction to WCHW and road marked as similar, then you are wrong.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Kangadrool

[Iisterry]

Look at the picture. I believe this is the area?

 

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The complainant's car involves a lane change before exiting. Lines are clearly drawn on the road. Now what do we know about lane changes?