Should lta revise the Coe system again?

[Chowyunfatt]

We keep saying that the Gov & LTA, Stupid this, Stupid that … But if they are indeed so stupid, why are we the ones always losing out … ?

 

Have they ever lost, even once?

[Civic6228]

LTA why so stupid, only limited 130bhp as CATA ceiling, but never gave torque limit, so the smart Conti vendors avail oneself of LTA loophole，

like Jetta1.4/CLA180/Audi A3, even if ony 122bhp, but Torque up to 200Nm, even higher than 2.0 Civic, in urban driving condition, frequently brake and pickup, high Torque is more important than high bhp,

so LTA should limit both bhp and torque, 130bhp/160Nm,

 

then it can thoroughly eliminate conti cars from Cat A, even if those diesel cars also are not immune, they are typically low bhp high torqure group,

 

CAT A only left JAP/Kor cars, definitely drop back to 50k below

 

LTA where got stupid .... they are very clever one ... scholars you know....

 

They already pat themselves on the back to praise themselves for achieving their objective to have more cars with lower OMV on the road since the new classifications.

 

Who is at the losing end ? Drivers like u and me lor ..... use to be able to get C180, A200, 316i, CLA, 116i with 136 HP and 156 HP in CAT A... now can only get B180, A3 Sedan, A180 and 122 HP in the same CAT A.

[Myxilplix]

By any chance do u know if theres a link or site at LTA for Bike's OMV in Sin.

 

I only managed to find such info for cars. But not bikes. Tia.

 

This I dunno, I only know how to check OMV via the usual de-registration enquiry. But remember bike got no PARF rebate ah, ARF is 15% of omv.

 

So if de-register I only get COE rebate.

[Roh96]

LTA why so stupid, only limited 130bhp as CATA ceiling, but never gave torque limit, so the smart Conti vendors avail oneself of LTA loophole，

like Jetta1.4/CLA180/Audi A3, even if ony 122bhp, but Torque up to 200Nm, even higher than 2.0 Civic, in urban driving condition, frequently brake and pickup, high Torque is more important than high bhp,

so LTA should limit both bhp and torque, 130bhp/160Nm,

 

then it can thoroughly eliminate conti cars from Cat A, even if those diesel cars also are not immune, they are typically low bhp high torqure group,

 

CAT A only left JAP/Kor cars, definitely drop back to 50k below

 

No matter how they tweak the system, they can't stop conti brand dealers from bringing models that meet CAT A limits into the market. And they can't stop rich ppl from buying CAT A cars. This is a free market, ppl are free to choose between CAT A or B regardless of their affordability.

[Baal]

LTA why so stupid, only limited 130bhp as CATA ceiling, but never gave torque limit, so the smart Conti vendors avail oneself of LTA loophole，

like Jetta1.4/CLA180/Audi A3, even if ony 122bhp, but Torque up to 200Nm, even higher than 2.0 Civic, in urban driving condition, frequently brake and pickup, high Torque is more important than high bhp,

so LTA should limit both bhp and torque, 130bhp/160Nm,

 

then it can thoroughly eliminate conti cars from Cat A, even if those diesel cars also are not immune, they are typically low bhp high torqure group,

 

CAT A only left JAP/Kor cars, definitely drop back to 50k below

In fact, there should be a multi prong approach.

 

a) 130bhp ( I rather 120bhp)

b) 160nm ( I rather 150nm)

c) 1600cc ( I rather 1500cc)

d) omv 20k ( or perhaps less, eg 17k.....since opc rebate is 17k)

 

As long as any single 1 criteria is breached, = pushed up to Cat B.

imo, looking at the specs of the current 1.6 NA, it doesn't appear very BnB to me. Eg, 6 Speed Auto w override manual, air-condition & memory seats. Further, the Korean 1.6 GDI NA, already pushing near 140ps & 170nm.

[oolongcha1985]

lol still can drive conti cars ah? means good enough liao lo..now i wan change car also must think twice...

[Baal]

 

This I dunno, I only know how to check OMV via the usual de-registration enquiry. But remember bike got no PARF rebate ah, ARF is 15% of omv.

 

So if de-register I only get COE rebate.

Thanks.

 

Coz for bikes, shops always go machine price which is bundled with their profits. I am curious to know the shops profit margin as a % to the OMV.

[Benarsenal]

Again, I emphasise, LTA themselves must set very clearly what is the (specific) objective of COE. Only then can we have a proper discussion on how to fix it. As it stands now it looks like even they themselves don't know and not clear, so all they're doing is anyhow fix short-term problems.

 

Apparently during one of the LTA meetings/discussions with dealers, LTA were asked what is defined as 'bread and butter car'. And their answer apparently was 'Japanese and Korean cars'.

 

What kind of simplistic thinking is this? Then Lexus is what?

 

It just saddens and angers me that our Govt is run by stubborn old-school dinosaurs. It's like they still using MS DOS and Windows 95 to do things when we all are using smartphone already. How to run a fricking country like that?

 

 

Edited March 20, 2014 by Benarsenal

[Civic6228]

In fact, there should be a multi prong approach.

 

a) 130bhp ( I rather 120bhp)

b) 160nm ( I rather 150nm)

c) 1600cc ( I rather 1500cc)

d) omv 20k ( or perhaps less, eg 17k.....since opc rebate is 17k)

 

As long as any single 1 criteria is breached, = pushed up to Cat B.

imo, looking at the specs of the current 1.6 NA, it doesn't appear very BnB to me. Eg, 6 Speed Auto w override manual, air-condition & memory seats. Further, the Korean 1.6 GDI NA, already pushing near 140ps & 170nm.

 

Well ... what is B&B car ?

 

In Japan, at least I know what is a "Kei" car.

 

Can afford buy, cannot afford too bad lor.

 

The principle behind B&B car does not hold water for me............ Government must ensure that COE is cheap enough for some people to buy their B&B car ? Then, the current system is not working.

 

Why not classified by country of manufacturing ? Europe, China, SE Asia, Japan, Korea and rest of the world.

[Baal]

 

Well ... what is B&B car ?

 

In Japan, at least I know what is a "Kei" car.

 

Can afford buy, cannot afford too bad lor.

 

The principle behind B&B car does not hold water for me............ Government must ensure that COE is cheap enough for some people to buy their B&B car ? Then, the current system is not working.

 

Why not classified by country of manufacturing ? Europe, China, SE Asia, Japan, Korea and rest of the world.

Actually, I do support the idea of Kei Car. Esp since it has been implemented in Jpn for a long time. Just need to study the system. Template is there already.

 

Its true imo that the G does not ack BnB. Coz it appears that as long as its a car, its luxury regardless.

 

Classification by omv would have been more effective though by no means perfect.

 

If they wanted to stop the rich fom buying Kei cars for instance, they actually can. Just take a template from HDB. Eg, 3 room bto in non mature, household income =< 5k. 3 room bto in mature est, cap at 10k......along those lines. The blue print is there already.

 

anyway, in my case, I dont dare dream of new car. rather a pqp car.

[Myxilplix]

Thanks.

 

Coz for bikes, shops always go machine price which is bundled with their profits. I am curious to know the shops profit margin as a % to the OMV.

 

For some can be quite high. Give you my bike as an example, new bike around 38-39k excluding COE and insurance.

 

OMV: $18,993

Actual ARF Paid: $2,849

COE QP: $1,889

COE Rebate if dereg tomorrow: $1,489

 

This is not counting GST/road tax/registration fee/blah blah factored in the 38-39k selling price. I'd still give it maybe 75% profit margin of OMV.

 

But this is low volume make/model/dealership. Not sure what kind of profit margins the b&b 2b models are fetching but I'm guessing at least 50%?

 

Edit: It's staggering compared to how much people are paying for a car with the same OMV eh? But my "paper value" is only $1,489 because of this.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Myxilplix

[Baal]

 

For some can be quite high. Give you my bike as an example, new bike around 38-39k excluding COE and insurance.

 

OMV: $18,993

Actual ARF Paid: $2,849

COE QP: $1,889

COE Rebate if dereg tomorrow: $1,489

 

This is not counting GST/road tax/registration fee/blah blah factored in the 38-39k selling price. I'd still give it maybe 75% profit margin of OMV.

 

But this is low volume make/model/dealership. Not sure what kind of profit margins the b&b 2b models are fetching but I'm guessing at least 50%?

I once checked with a guy whom bought a Honda 400x . iirc, he paid 15k + OTR.

Mentioned that his omv was about $7900.

 

So will be 7900(omv) + 1185(arf) + 1800(coe) + 140(reg) + 800(insur) = 11825 (round off 12k)

 

Assuming total he paid was 15.5k.....less 12k , profit = 3.5k. As a % of omv would be 44% ?

[LoneCatFish]

Not sure you guys still remember what LTA said after the last bid result: http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/coe-category-tweak-achieved-its-goal-lta

 

"Asked why COE premiums are still on an upward trend, an LTA spokesperson said the recategorisation was not aimed at lowering COE prices, but to better allow Category A to cater to the mass market. “COE prices are determined by the interplay of supply and demand,” she added."

 

As long as COE still staying high, what's the difference to car buyer?

 

Whatever the government do is just wayang motion giving us some illusions to dream and hope.

Edited March 20, 2014 by LoneCatFish

[LoneCatFish]

COE price is ultimately determined by number of COE vs number of car buyer. This recategorisation seems to move some car model out of CAT A to CAT B, but that doesn't means CAT A price will drop.

 

Let's look at "TOTAL ANNUAL NEW REGISTRATION OF CARS BY MAKE" : http://www.lta.gov.sg/content/dam/ltaweb/corp/PublicationsResearch/files/FactsandFigures/MVP02-2_(New_Cars_by_make).pdf

 

In 2009, just before COE price started to shoot upwards, the total number of Toyota registered that year was 17,555, which means per month average about 1462 Toyota registered. Let's assume half of them are Altis, means about 731 Altis registered a month, or 365 per half month. Altis is definitely considered as one of the "bread and butter car". Please note that the number was much higher before 2009, so this is a conservative hypothesis.

 

Imagine even under very extreme situation that if LTA will to re-classified CAT A is only reserved for Toyota Altis, and the rest of the models (including Chery QQ) goes into CAT B. With today's CAT A quota of 362 (2nd tender, Mar 14), and 365 possible potential Altis buyer bidding for CAT A, the COE quota is not even enough for Toyota Altis alone.

 

Next, on 2nd tender Mar 2014, revenue made by LTA on CAT A = 362 (quota) x $78,602 = $28 million

 

Take the highest CAT A COE in 2009 : http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/COE_past.php?YR=2009&CAT=a,

 

Dec 1st bid, $18,502 x 1,151 (quota) = $21 million

 

LTA has much lesser paper work to do now, and yet earning higher revenue.

 

So, unless the COE quota increase back to the pre-2009 situation, price will never drop no matter how government shift the classification.

 

Edited March 20, 2014 by LoneCatFish

[Wt_know]

demand increase (population)

quota decrease (traffic jam)

it is a perfect formula for high coe

even 5 years old kid can solve this equation ... no need scholar thinking cap

 

even quota increase ... it is not enough to meet current (existing car owner) and new demand (new buyer entering the market) ... coe will remain high ... triple confirmed

Edited March 20, 2014 by Wt_know

[Wind30]

Not sure you guys still remember what LTA said after the last bid result: http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/coe-category-tweak-achieved-its-goal-lta

 

"Asked why COE premiums are still on an upward trend, an LTA spokesperson said the recategorisation was not aimed at lowering COE prices, but to better allow Category A to cater to the mass market. “COE prices are determined by the interplay of supply and demand,” she added."

 

As long as COE still staying high, what's the difference to car buyer?

 

Whatever the government do is just wayang motion giving us some illusions to dream and hope.

 

yup someone should ask that LTA guy, what is the point of seperating the COE into Cat A and Cat B. What is the point of grouping mass market cars into Cat A and luxury cars in Cat B?

 

I really think LTA has totally lost it when they have forgotten the motivation for seperating the COE into Cat A and B many years ago.

[Sturtles]

 

And for heaven's sake, STOP buying trains and switchgear from China!!!

Their recent UNRELIABILITY speaks for themselves. Proven - ALL MIC!!!

 

 

Any claims to substantiate this claim?

 

Tried googling, but my googfu is not good enough

 

Most of the breakdown lies with the rail and track faults. The carriage is just a passenger.

 

Then again, its hard to buy stuff not made in china these days