Need help with an automotive related school project.

[Nick2342]

This what I have been thinking also:- "one for one exchange" of batteries, or make such detachable batteries on rental basis, with exchange-stations spread throughout the island.

 

You've got something there. Maybe they could coexist alongside each other in the EV charging station, for a higher price compared to those who use the charging service.

There already are hydrogen fuel cell cars in existence, but not in mass production stage.

 

Honda has one (FCX Clarity), Merc also has one.

 

Top Gear tested the Honda in California and I have seen the Merc in Singapore before. It's an A class.

 

 

 

CNG was a success and getting popular.

 

Oh, then somebody stepped in and announced taxes on CNG.

 

GG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How bad was the CNG taxes and how were they levied? Was it something like the diesel tax we see today? I remember there was quite the rush to fill up on CNG, there were stations slated to open and such, but then suddenly all went quiet. :/.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nick2342]

The only time we charge our cars this way is when we return home from work or are shopping/having coffee. That is a function of time. The charging must be done before we next use the car

 

The time at the station includes parking which in SGP is not cheap. Would the cost of charging be cheaper than petrol?

 

Expensive motoring cost in SGP does not encourage such cars.

 

The infrastructure - would require govt help. There needs to be critical mass. The economics must agree with the science. remember CNG?

 

I tried having a carpark based charging system as in one at a HDB MSCP based on your thinking, but the majority of the feedback i recieved highlighted the possibility of sabotage and vandalism if the wires were left out in the open. Hence i switched over to the service station idea.

[Super7]

Invent an engine that take your urine as fuel. Every morning wake up, go pee into the fuel cock hole. Problem solved.

 

China is now harnessing it's own people pees and poos as fuel source.

 

I wonder how strong the smell will be when the car goes pass!!??

[Ingenius]

This what I have been thinking also:- "one for one exchange" of batteries, or make such detachable batteries on rental basis, with exchange-stations spread throughout the island.

Great minds think alike ! Lol

[Super7]

 

I tried having a carpark based charging system as in one at a HDB MSCP based on your thinking, but the majority of the feedback i recieved highlighted the possibility of sabotage and vandalism if the wires were left out in the open. Hence i switched over to the service station idea.

 

With the car park / MSCP concept discussed here, each car's footprint will take up precious space and in high land cost cities like SGP, the land needed to park these cars will be costly to rent or purchase. Unless existing car parks are used, stand alone charging facilities using dedicated parking space are not going to be cheap. Even when existing car parks are used, the customers will have to pay for (1) Charging fee, and (2) Parking fee just like any other normal parking facilities.

 

To minimise a car's footprint when it's being charged, maybe it can be tipped up vertically (think how roast chickens/ducks are hanged up at the stall). This way, a normal parking space/footprint can take 3-4 cars (vertical) instead of just one (horizontal)!! For example, if 1000sqm car park normally can take 44 cars, a "vertical" system will take 176 cars. The compact overall size of the "Vertical" charging system will also require shorter cables, another cost saving.

 

In such a multi-storey vertical charging station, there's no need for ramps to drive the cars up to the next level. Instead, the cars will be hoisted up vertically to the next level using a hoisting system which moves the cars up and down and also left / right / front / back to the "hanging" space they are allocated in the racking / stacking system.

[Super7]

Invent an engine that take your urine as fuel. Every morning wake up, go pee into the fuel cock hole. Problem solved.

 

China is now harnessing it's own people pees and poos as fuel source.

 

Such a car will be called MT -- Mobile Toilet using the user's own discharge??

[Kangadrool]

Nah....

 

Very doubtful e-cars will gain traction here even though it's the most suitable or ideal place as testbed.

 

I think only hybrid and/or fuel-cells cars will succeed.

 

 

[Nick2342]

 

With the car park / MSCP concept discussed here, each car's footprint will take up precious space and in high land cost cities like SGP, the land needed to park these cars will be costly to rent or purchase. Unless existing car parks are used, stand alone charging facilities using dedicated parking space are not going to be cheap. Even when existing car parks are used, the customers will have to pay for (1) Charging fee, and (2) Parking fee just like any other normal parking facilities.

 

To minimise a car's footprint when it's being charged, maybe it can be tipped up vertically (think how roast chickens/ducks are hanged up at the stall). This way, a normal parking space/footprint can take 3-4 cars (vertical) instead of just one (horizontal)!! For example, if 1000sqm car park normally can take 44 cars, a "vertical" system will take 176 cars. The compact overall size of the "Vertical" charging system will also require shorter cables, another cost saving.

 

In such a multi-storey vertical charging station, there's no need for ramps to drive the cars up to the next level. Instead, the cars will be hoisted up vertically to the next level using a hoisting system which moves the cars up and down and also left / right / front / back to the "hanging" space they are allocated in the racking / stacking system.

I was thinking of retrofitting the system in current built up mscps and having it integrated with new carparks when i was exploring it. The only problem was sabotage and vandalism. Thus i scrapped the idea.

 

i guess the multi level ev station could be the way forward, especially if it could be integrated with battery swapping services, car wash/grooming bays, servicing garages to name a few. Imagine that over current petrol stations.

 

Parking is free, its just only charging you have to pay for.

 

The hang up like roast chickens idea sounds radical, but i suspect drivers would not want to see thier expensive machines hung up like a goose , plus if something goes wrong, well... it will be expensive, to say the least.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Nick2342

[Holdenutessv]

why not battery kiosks or petrol kiosks have pre-charged batteries and drivers just swap their depleted one for a fully charged one for a fee. No waiting time.

 

That would be too troublesome because of the way the batteries are being tucked away in a conventional EV.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Holdenutessv

[Super7]

To safeguard the charging equipment / cables etc against sabbotage or theft, maybe house them behind a heavy duty panel, the expose cable and plug can be made with strong material similar to the hose / nozzle used in petrol station??

 

I was thinking of retrofitting the system in current built up mscps and having it integrated with new carparks when i was exploring it. The only problem was sabotage and vandalism. Thus i scrapped the idea.

i guess the multi level ev station could be the way forward, especially if it could be integrated with battery swapping services, car wash/grooming bays, servicing garages to name a few. Imagine that over current petrol stations.

Parking is free, its just only charging you have to pay for.

The hang up like roast chickens idea sounds radical, but i suspect drivers would not want to see thier expensive machines hung up like a goose , plus if something goes wrong, well... it will be expensive, to say the least.

 

[Ingenius]

The big question is, who is going to pay for the facilities and how much are they willing to pay ? Ev buyers want to save money but if the usage cost of the charging facilities is high then they won't buy. If the usage cost is low then how to recoup back the investment ?

[Nzy]

The current limitation of battery life vs distance makes a electric car unfeasible for large scale roll out, not to mention in Singapore heat deteriorates cell life.

 

Makes more sense to design cars with replaceable battery cells, and the top up station will swap out the cells and charge the customer for the electricity provided on the topped up battery.

 

However unless someone breaks all limitation on current batteries or govt redo the main infrastructure (wireless induction in the road) electric car usage will be limited.

 

Realistically I believe Hydrogen fuel cell is a better way to go assuming they find a way to efficient split hydrogen from water and a safe way to store them in cars.

 

 

 

Actually I feel that Singapore is quite suitable for electric cars. Singapore is so small and most people won't travel more than 100km a day which is roughly what most electric cars can do now. So majority of the people won't have a problem with the range of an electric car.

[Nick2342]

To safeguard the charging equipment / cables etc against sabbotage or theft, maybe house them behind a heavy duty panel, the expose cable and plug can be made with strong material similar to the hose / nozzle used in petrol station??

 

 

 

Nah. You'll never know what happen, especially as carparks have no CCTVs, unlike current petrol stations, hence the decision to make the charging area accessible to staff only.

[Nick2342]

The big question is, who is going to pay for the facilities and how much are they willing to pay ? Ev buyers want to save money but if the usage cost of the charging facilities is high then they won't buy. If the usage cost is low then how to recoup back the investment ?

 

I don't know, really. The most likely way this, if it even happens at all, will most probably come from the private sector and i don't really know if i could even bring up the proposal to them, let alone them being interested in it anyway. It's kind of tricky, but i kinda believe that if one wants to reap the benefits, one has to slog for it. If the venture takes off, it could be very well be profitable, providing there is a middle ground for charging prices, benefiting companies and the consumers as a whole, since Singapore, with its small landmass as one user said earlier, will not travel long distances, which is what current EV ranges are capped at due to battery limitations. Plus, it's primed to handle lots of cars, something which the current charging point cannot handle.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Nick2342

[Simplecar]

 

I tried having a carpark based charging system as in one at a HDB MSCP based on your thinking, but the majority of the feedback i recieved highlighted the possibility of sabotage and vandalism if the wires were left out in the open. Hence i switched over to the service station idea.

i will not consider putting at HDB MSCP as the projected demand may not match the supply. Very troublesome. Best left to commercial entities - but this is likely a Catch22 situation.

The big question is, who is going to pay for the facilities and how much are they willing to pay ? Ev buyers want to save money but if the usage cost of the charging facilities is high then they won't buy. If the usage cost is low then how to recoup back the investment ?

Definitely not the govt.

 

 

[Nick2342]

i will not consider putting at HDB MSCP as the projected demand may not match the supply. Very troublesome. Best left to commercial entities - but this is likely a Catch22 situation.

Definitely not the govt.

 

 

Yup i guess it's better to have a dedicated station where the supply vs demand can be evaluated, so i shelved the hdb plan. Well.. about the commercial entities, im not sure if they are interested at all :/. I dont know of any that may be interested anyway.

 

Just a initial mockup of the design im going with.

 

The individual charging lots.

 

 

 

The multi level charging station.

[Azzurro]

If I am not wrong the individual charging unit is available at Singapore Power Building basement carpark on Orchard Road.

[Jwee85]

there are many electric cars charging points all over singapore now.

 

But not many are buying the electric cars.

 

TS you are doing things the wrong way round.

 

All sorts of charging designs have already being suggested by the various manufacturers.

 

Solar charging booths, Special lots in shopping centers, Special charging points in all petrol stations, etc..etc.

 

If no one buys the cars, there is no point installing these chargers.

 

Has TS considered that the charging units can be installed in the cars. Where the car only need to pull out a retracting cables to plug into a wall point(like a vacuum cleaner retracting cables!).

Thus all TS need to design is a metal door locker to allow access to the wall plug. The metal door lockers can be like those found in ski resorts to keep your items , access by Pincode and cash cards, charged by the minutes till door is reopen again.

 

TS always remember this, PUSH all the expensive expenses to the car owners.

The electricity supplier or charger booth should be as cheap as possible. So that more places/shopping center/condos/homes can just use their wall plug without any special modifications or costs!!!

 

Good luck. When it become a success. One smart aleck scholar ill come along to tax the electric cars till it become not visble again.

 

I always said, if electricity cars were to take off, one should start with populating electric bicycles first. The electric bicycle popularity was gaining momentum.....but was prematurely killed by the new strict regulations and licence fees.

CNG another case.

History may likely repeat for electric cars, in Singapore context.