Aion V

[Ake109]

On 10/28/2025 at 3:59 PM, 13177 said:

Toyota/BM difficult to counter attack since they have no EVs. Their cars looks so outdated if compared to EVs. Even their hybrid cars also outdated.

Not impossible. Got people like me still put value into their Toyota 'reliability' /resale and old school buttons.

Their Sienta/Harrier/Corolla Cross/RAV4 Hybrids, if priced closer to Chinese EV, would have won me over. If you drive their Hybrids, is really best in the biz.

[steveting99]

On 10/28/2025 at 10:52 AM, Ake109 said:

Then you should like Citroen. Based on LTA stats, they have negative margin for the E-C4X

@13177 LOL, we're talking about Cycle & Carriage (C&C) here, they're not going to give away their rides without first draining the victims life savings out. As usual, the devil is in the details. Below is the pricelist from C&C for the E-C4X.

So that $175k sales price isn't true - its just to drawn in unsuspecting victims into the showrooms. Need to add in $4k to get to the guaranteed COE top up. But the CoE rebate is only $99k, which means one will have to make up the difference with the current Cat A CoE price of $122k. So add another $23k to the sales price.

There are also additional pre-conditions as highlighted in the terms and conditions below.

Add another $8k to avoid the low ball trade-in. Then add another $8k to avoid the high interest (EIR of 4.65%), long term (7 years) 60% in-house finance. 

So the total comes out to $216k for the E-C4X for an all cash deal. This is higher than the list price! 🤪With OMV of the Citroen E-C4X being $39k (taken from LTA's cost of car update in Sep-2025), the margin works out to be $34.3k or 88% of OMV. A bit high, but better than VinCar / EV Hub on the Aion V Luxury. 

C&C is far away from having negative margins.🫣

If C&C can "convince" you to take the in-house finance then that leaves the door open for money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) No.2 🧛‍♀️to come in and bite you every month for the next 7 years. Draining more of your hard earned life savings. You'll end up paying an additional $39k in interest charges, which means C&C now earns $65.4k or 167% of OMV! Can definitely put C&C in the money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) 🦹🧛‍♂️🧛‍♀️gang.

 

Edited October 28, 2025 by steveting99
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[Tkseah]

On 10/28/2025 at 12:18 PM, 13177 said:

But not many people buy their E-C4X. Lol.

Why so few people buy Citroen EVs?  Even their non EVs last time was selling not too badly..

[13177]

On 10/28/2025 at 4:11 PM, Ake109 said:

Not impossible. Got people like me still put value into their Toyota 'reliability' /resale and old school buttons.

Their Sienta/Harrier/Corolla Cross/RAV4 Hybrids, if priced closer to Chinese EV, would have won me over. If you drive their Hybrids, is really best in the biz.

I like the corolla cross. If the price is below 200k, i will consider.

[13177]

On 10/28/2025 at 6:08 PM, Tkseah said:

Why so few people buy Citroen EVs?  Even their non EVs last time was selling not too badly..

Actually for ICE car Citroen also not say very popular lo, maybe due to reliability not so good for Citroen brand?

[Ake109]

On 10/28/2025 at 5:13 PM, steveting99 said:

 

So that $175k sales price isn't true - its just to drawn in unsuspecting victims into the showrooms. Need to add in $4k to get to the guaranteed COE top up. But the CoE rebate is only $99k, which means one will have to make up the difference with the current Cat A CoE price of $122k. So add another $23k to the sales price.

 

Thats not how COE rebate works. You add 4k means GTD COE. not 23k

[steveting99]

On 10/28/2025 at 9:28 PM, 13177 said:

Actually for ICE car Citroen also not say very popular lo, maybe due to reliability not so good for Citroen brand?

@13177 Not wrong there in saying Citroen isn't popular. Citroen has been on a downward spiral since 2023. Reported sales for the past four years are - 

2021: 240 units

2022: 350 units

2023: 308 units

2024: 79

2025 (Jan to Sep): 31

So another record low in sales for Citroen coming in 2025. 

Doesn't help when C&C has only one BEV available model to sell : E-C4X, which happens to be a sedan and this type of ride isn't selling well. If there was an SUV model available, maybe the sales numbers would be better. There's lots of competition in the BEV sedan market, i.e. Aion ES, BYD Seal, Tesla Model 3, JMEV Elight, etc. All in Cat A territory. 

Would not be surprised if C&C closes the Citroen shop next year if sales don't pick up. Would not want to be a Citroen owner now as there's a bit of a risk in service and warranty issues going forward. 

[Mkl22]

On 10/28/2025 at 6:08 PM, Tkseah said:

Why so few people buy Citroen EVs?  Even their non EVs last time was selling not too badly..

French trash lor.... you once you bite, have to swallow... even spit out also cost you money.

[Zerstorer]

On 10/28/2025 at 5:13 PM, steveting99 said:

@13177 LOL, we're talking about Cycle & Carriage (C&C) here, they're not going to give away their rides without first draining the victims life savings out. As usual, the devil is in the details. Below is the pricelist from C&C for the E-C4X.

So that $175k sales price isn't true - its just to drawn in unsuspecting victims into the showrooms. Need to add in $4k to get to the guaranteed COE top up. But the CoE rebate is only $99k, which means one will have to make up the difference with the current Cat A CoE price of $122k. So add another $23k to the sales price.

 

COE rebate level of $99k means they will refund you the difference if COE drops below that. 

The selling price is $174999 as long fulfill their requirements which is standard among most car dealers. 

[13177]

On 10/29/2025 at 10:11 AM, Zerstorer said:

COE rebate level of $99k means they will refund you the difference if COE drops below that. 

The selling price is $174999 as long fulfill their requirements which is standard among most car dealers. 

Those AD that offer Coe dollar to dollar rebate seems better deal?!

[Ake109]

On 10/29/2025 at 10:20 AM, 13177 said:

Those AD that offer Coe dollar to dollar rebate seems better deal?!

Tesla does it the best. Tell you up front the asking price, include what exact bid they will throw in. You want add 1 dollar or 100k to bid amount you ownself decide. That is the closest we have to customer own-self bid.

[Ake109]

On 10/29/2025 at 9:59 AM, Mkl22 said:

French trash lor.... you once you bite, have to swallow... even spit out also cost you money.

Citroen does have a damn comfy ride. I do like their C5 AirCross design as well. Was on my shortlist for used car if I didnt buy new.

Long long ago, in a country far far away, a Xantia Activa saved my ass when I didnt see a bloody sharp cliff/drop off at night and had to last min swerve. That suspension was really tok-kong.

 

[Mkl22]

On 10/29/2025 at 10:51 AM, Ake109 said:

Citroen does have a damn comfy ride. I do like their C5 AirCross design as well. Was on my shortlist for used car if I didnt buy new.

Long long ago, in a country far far away, a Xantia Activa saved my ass when I didnt see a bloody sharp cliff/drop off at night and had to last min swerve. That suspension was really tok-kong.

 

yes, frenchies have very good suspension. but good handling and suspension cannot save their unrelibility plus poor design, which ultimately will cost you time and money to fix. after all the time and money that you spent, you realized that you could have bought a Camry instead of a Corolla. 😁

Edited October 29, 2025 by Mkl22

[Ake109]

On 10/29/2025 at 1:06 PM, Mkl22 said:

yes, frenchies have very good suspension. but good handling and suspension cannot save their unrelibility plus poor design, which ultimately will cost you time and money to fix. after all the time and money that you spent, you realized that you could have bought a Camry instead of a Corolla. 😁

I want frenchy suspension, german engine output, japanese reliability, italian styling and chinese pricing.

Eh but ignoring the big sedans, when it comes to smaller cars, like Renault 5 or C5 Aircross. French reliability whilst not the best, isnt _that_ bad no?

Edited October 29, 2025 by Ake109

[Zerstorer]

On 10/29/2025 at 10:20 AM, 13177 said:

Those AD that offer Coe dollar to dollar rebate seems better deal?!

That's for sure.

[steveting99]

On 10/29/2025 at 10:11 AM, Zerstorer said:

COE rebate level of $99k means they will refund you the difference if COE drops below that. 

The selling price is $174999 as long fulfill their requirements which is standard among most car dealers. 

@Zerstorer I stand corrected then. Thanks for the clarification. 

That means Citroen E-C4X all cash deal works out to be: $175k + $4k + $8k + $8k = $195k

With basic cost of $181.7k (including Cat A CoE), dealer margin works out to be much better at $13.3k or 34% of OMV on the Citroen E-C4X. That's a night and day difference - when comparing to VinCar / EV Hub's tripple digit profit margin on the Aion V Luxury.

Looks like Cycle & Carriage (C&C) are following Tesla, Volkswagen, Skoda and Vertex Auto on making a fair and reasonable profit margin. Let's see if C&C does it again with the Leapmotor C10.

Edited October 30, 2025 by steveting99
additional text

[Ake109]

On 10/30/2025 at 9:41 AM, steveting99 said:

@Zerstorer I stand corrected then. Thanks for the clarification. 

That means Citroen E-C4X all cash deal works out to be: $175k + $4k + $8k + $8k = $195k

With basic cost of $181.7k (including Cat A CoE), dealer margin works out to be much better at $13.3k or 34% of OMV on the Citroen E-C4X. That's a night and day difference - when comparing to VinCar / EV Hub's tripple digit profit margin on the Aion V Luxury.

Looks like Cycle & Carriage (C&C) are following Tesla, Volkswagen, Skoda and Vertex Auto on making a fair and reasonable profit margin. Let's see if C&C does it again with the Leapmotor C10.

Eh, since this topic seems to be popping up on multiple threads, maybe you should start a dedicated money jiangshi thread to consolidate all future posts.

[steveting99]

Was thinking of how to rate / identifier importers, distributors and authorized dealers here in Singapore that would give a good indication of how much money they are taking away from the blood, sweat and tears of hard-working Singaporeans. A standardized method, easy to understand and easily recognizable would be ideal.

Took inspiration from the crash test results given by the European New Car Assessment Program (Euro NCAP) where the number of stars represents how safe the vehicle is to help buyers make an informed choice in purchasing a safe ride for themselves and for their loved ones. Obviously, most should gravitate to those vehicles that have a five-star rating.

Thinking that for rating the money jiāngshī (吸血鬼), the most appropriate way is to determine how much % of the Open Market Value (OMV) they are making.

The OMV is a common reference point as government bases all duties and taxes on it. The OMV for each ride is different, so depending on what the importers, distributors and authorized dealers are willing to bring into Singapore and what can bed sold in an open market.

Furthermore, LTA publishes each month (via OneMotoring) a list of the OMV cost on each ride – so it’s easy to check.

Within each percentage band of OMV, the money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) rating with this emoji: 🧛‍♀️can be given. The higher the percentage of OMV, the more emojis of 🧛‍♀️are assigned to indicate the greed, as well as how much of one’s life savings is being drained by the money jiāngshī (吸血鬼).

Here is the proposed percentage band of OMV and the money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) rating system.

(1)  Greater than 70% of OMV to less than 100% of OMV: junior money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) with one 🧛‍♀️emoji.

(2)  Equal to or greater than 100% of OMV to less than 130% of OMV: senior money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) with two 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️emojis.

(3)  Equal to or greater than 130% of OMV to less than 160% of OMV: gluttonous money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) with three 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️emojis.

(4)  Equal to or greater than 160% of OMV to less than 190% of OMV: avaricious money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) with four🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️emojis.

(5)  Greater than 190% of OMV:  count Dracula money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) with five 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️ 🧛‍♀️emojis

So, the fewer money jiāngshī (吸血鬼) emojis 🧛‍♀️the ride has, the better it is for one’s long term financial health. Also, a fairer and more reasonable deal one is getting, before signing on the dotted line.

Can anyone guess if Singapore car reviews would adopt the above rating system?

Edited October 30, 2025 by steveting99
typo and additional text