My CNG conversion

[Pisces69]

Compressed natural gas is not liquid. It can never be liquid. Only when frozen it becomes liquid but it will be called LNG.

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OK. Cos I read that at the pumping station it is cooled till liquid for storage. That means it is in gaseous form in the car. Like that the amt able to store in the tank/s in the car wil b very limited.

 

If it's kept at 200bar, then the pressure is very high. That means another problem is leaks or explosion if the tank is damaged in a crash or due to old age & wear & tear.

 

I think like that, petrol is a safer option then.

 

The way I feel is CNG is still very new & chances of things happening is higher then petrol or diesel. Maybe I'll consider it at a much later stage once all the bugs have been worked out.

[Pisces69]

For me I think diesel is the way to go now, till other alternatives have been really tried & tested.

 

Unfortunately our gharmen don't encourage diesel as the fuel of the near future. Think of it this way. Diesel is as readily available as petrol at all stations. The engines have been around longer than petrol engines & the new diesels r cleaner than petrol engines.

 

Get a turbo diesel & u have the best of both worlds. Low end torque & high speed running. Add in economical & u have a bonus.

 

Why go all around the mulberry bush looking for an alternative fuel when it is already here staring us in the face?

[Pisces69]

Another concern is the CNG pple join the petrol cartel.

 

Then we r all back where we started.

[Pisces69]

Common sense is actually quite rare.

[Genie47]

CNG is old. Really old. There is a CNG station in JB where there are pictures of a car burned to the crisp with nothing left only the shell and...... an intact CNG cylinder in what is left of the boot. A crash won't even do anything to it. Jaws movies aside, when a cylinder of CNG or propane is shot, it just vents the gas out. That's all it does.

 

The bugs are already worked out in Europe and South America but I do have doubts about India and Pakistan. There are people attempting to use LPG cylinders for CNG.

 

In terms of range, LPG is is longer since it is liquid but it is a product of petroleum distillation which means LPG is still at the mercy of oil prices. Most of the taxis and tuk tuks of Bangkok are running on LPG. However the private car owners convert to CNG only. Smart fellas. They are not subjected to the oil prices while the tuk tuk and taxi drivers are. Met a Thai in a resort and he proudly proclaims his Camry is an NGV.

 

Financially, petrol is a ticking time bomb. As I have said earlier. I had the foresight to convert last year and then buy lots of a commodity ETF. 44% annualized gains so far.

 

Yes. Pump more petrol.........Eat more rice........ grow more cash crops for biodesiel.......

[Genie47]

You don't see it yet. It might or might not come. So far the South Americans, Indians and Pakistanis are supplying it for themselves. China is buying from Iran.

 

Enjoy while it lasts right now. Why worry for the far future. Place your bets. Put money in your hedges.

 

I do have concerns. There is indeed more natural gas in this world but it is more difficult to get to it. That is where the cost is. use it while it is cheap. Our car got a 10yr COE. Gives us some time to look ahead a little.

[Genie47]

Diesel is great for hauling stuff. Nothing can beat diesel in this. For the private car owner, as long as CNG is still cheaper than any of the petroleum derivatives it is a more viable alternative. Afterall, he doesn't depend on his car to haul a lot of stuff let alone passengers.

[Pisces69]

Then how come 1 of the CNG ststions here is raising it's prices? Unless he already joined the cartel? Wait demand for CNG become so high & petrol nobody wants anymore & they start to sell it at $0.20 a lit.

 

BTW, how did that taxi burn to a crisp in JB? U mean the gas venting out from a leak is not flammable?

 

Anyway i'm just different. I wait till other pple try & test the system swee swee, then I might consider getting it.

[Pisces69]

Maybe in my children's time there might b a switch away from oil towards other sources which r cheap, renewable & reliable.

 

Until then I'll stick with the stuff which has been used for the last 100 years or so. There is still plenty of oil around. Only thing is it's getting harder to get at it, like u said. But as time goes on, they wil develop methods of getting to that oil economically.

 

I remember the last oil crisis in 1970-1980 was it? Everybody panicked & oil shot up to crazy prices. After some time who brought it down? The guys who were producing it(OPEC). Hahaha They were getting worried that alternative energy sources wud b developed & decided that cheap oil was the best safeguard to preventing development of the alternatives.

 

Of course I might b wrong, but I think oil is still good for another 100 years or so.

[Pisces69]

Diesel cars r already the thing in Europe. Other fuels r still experimental.

 

CNG is cheaper for now, but for how long? That is the million dollar question. Remember the gharmen still have not placed a tax on it & when it gets popular, I'm sure they r not going to lie down & watch all those tax dollard slip away. Remember by then the petrol consumption wud drop due to motorists switching over to CNG.

[Porche]

bro sa la liao, our "corrupt free" govt already looking at it liao, c lots of PI and authorised dealer offering CNG cars

[Genie47]

SMART Energy raised because they are buyers. SembGas are sellers. SMART buys Bolehland CNG. SembGas has ready piped gas from Natunas gas fields, Indonesia.

 

Taxi got burned because petrol burned.

[Pisces69]

I feel the only reason new CNG cars r being sold is cos of the discount given on the taxes which means a lower selling price.

 

With the poor sales of cars nowadays, the sellers will try anything to pull in the buyers again. A few $K discount might just swing it for many buyers.

 

CNG is being touted as the "IN" thing nowadays but I thing there is still a lot more work that needs to b done in terms of reliability.

 

Plus we still dont know the long term reliability & cost to own & run a CNG car here.

 

Why all of a sudden go for a fuel source so new & untested? Might as well go for diesels & save a lot of trouble.

 

I smell something "fishy" here. There might b a hidden agenda. Wait later those who bought CNG cars get screwed good & proper.

[Pisces69]

So the "stable" price of CNG is not so stable after all. We r still held ransom to the energy suppliers then.

 

What if more & more pple get CNG cars. What is to stop the suppliers from constantly raising the price till they find the tolerance level of these motorists? Might just b slightly lower than petrol in the end.

 

Buy petrol from MY I know their price is totally independent from what the cartel sells it for.

 

Plus I dont have to worry about all those gadgets, gizmos & electronics which may spoil anytime & I prob have no choice but to go back to the few companies which can repair the problem. I think their charges will b

Edited May 13, 2008 by Pisces69

[Genie47]

What to do? We are buyers here. No oil or gas from domestic production. India and Pakistan plus most of South America goes for it because they got domestic production. China got money and power to poke Iran to sell. Those countries with domestic production very smart. Sell oil to countries like US and us and they use CNG for themselves. My same hedging strategy.

 

Right now, SembGas has a written agreement so it is stable. SMART Energy does not.

 

MY is facing inflation crisis just like us. Dunno how long they will hold out for the subsidies. Their fiscal policy is different from us but still expensive. MY=subsidy, SG=exchange rate policy. Both expensive. Will see how these fiscal policies handle. SGD keep pace with the basket of currencies we trade with, there is stability in CNG prices and to a cetain extent, petrol. MYR depends on how much money their gahment pumps into the subsidies. If they buay tahan, they pull back of course there are riots like we see from the last time. Their gahment is the wildcard when it comes to petrol prices there.

[Dirtrider_ak]

Yes. Explains why whatever 1.0 lambda we idle or 0.83-0.85 lambda is burned off with a longer revv to 2.8kRPM to gain that torque while moving if we are pressured from behind. Else 2.3-2.5kRPM upshifts seems OK.

 

Getting to cruise is really critical for CNG.

 

In the end, the dollar wins. Mandai has raised prices but SembGas has not. I see massive defections.

 

Whahahaha You said it man i am gonna get my card refund soon ... to hell with them

[Renegade777]

Wah ! So expensive leow. Nearly 4K. Got cheaper one or not from other workshops ?

 

Thanks bro.

 

You should have done it when you 1st bought the car. How many CNG vendors you can have here? machiam like monopoly .

 

Regards,

 

Alamak ! That time still dun feel anything mah. Now machiam like carrot head. Everytime pump feels si bey buay song.

[Renegade777]

SO NGV charges $3550 for conversion

 

Scantruck is $3700

 

Mova is $4100

 

All excludes GST

 

Thanks man. Must check it out.