320i vs C200. Which is a better buy?

[Viceroymenthol]

But at the expense of the rear center seat space.

 

Regards,

 

It is not as if there isn't any rear centre seat space. There is space, just not as much as an Altis or Civic. If you want space, go for an SUV or a large sedan. The cars discussed here are compact luxury sedans. As you know, trying to include as much interior space as possible was not always the top priority to the designers in this segment of car. I guess the engineers at Stuttgart and Munich assumed that buyers of this category of cars won't be hauling a large family around all the time (they have the R Class or X5 for that).

 

For me, this lesser rear centre seat space issue is insignificant when I have a front-rear set up. That was the way god intended cars to be! None of that FWD nonsense for me.

[Viceroymenthol]

Damienic, i may hav sneer. However, i hav pointed to u earlier that current lineup of BMW does not have FWD except MINI.

 

Honestly, car lover doesn't mean know everything. Honestly, i don't know everything. I m still learning from bro/sis here.

 

Sometime, when i m not sure, i will google beforehand.

 

If i have offended u earlier, apology from me.

 

IMO, MINI is about as much a BMW as Rolls Royce is.

 

BMWs are BMWs, MINI is MINI.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Viceroymenthol

[Viceroymenthol]

Thanks for your comments! They are very helpful and confirmed what I had felt all along, the IS250 is a real bang for the buck, although I tested both and found the C180 quite willing to rev, and the IS250 in contrast seems reluctant to move. From the official stats, there is only a one-plus second difference in 0-100kmh sprint times between both of them.

 

Which will last longer? The Lexus will last for decades of course, because it is a Toyota. And unfortunately that is also the reason preventing many BMW and Merc owners to buy a Lexus. But it is also the reason how a buyer could get a 2.5 litre V6 at that attractive price.

 

Decisions decisions...

 

I should preface by saying my opinion might be biased (i am a FL IS250 owner)

 

A mercedes C200 i played around with had a lovely interior, nicer that the IS250. I am unsure if the C180 is similar. Supercharged engine was peppy and a decent drive for city-running. But the IS250 has the merc beat in terms of engine refinement and outright performance. I think this difference will be even greater when comparing the C180. I consider them on-par lookswise (with the 3 series a distant third in terms of looks) Caveat being: you need to rev the IS to really get the thing surging. Engine noise is almost non-existent below 3000rpm. The opposite is true for the merc

 

The biggest flaw of the lexus is> The very soft suspension. I solved this problem by swapping out to Eibach prokit springs/Bilstein shocks and the final result is exactly what i was looking for

The second (to some) is the 'numb 'steering. Yes, its not the most communicative...but its still as precise as you want it to be. I personally like the steering because its small and thus lends a sporty feel, has a tight ratio which means less turning of the wheel is necessary, and still gets the job done as well as any other car (except with less feedback)

 

Considering options, price, performance i believe the IS is a better package. I will go so far as to say that at the IS250's price bracket, there is no better option if you are looking for a luxury RWD sedan.

 

I've had just about every generation of E Class, BMW 5 series and 7 series for the past 2 decades in my family so i have quite a bit of exposure to these marques, and did consider them before i made my purchase decision. How ironic i ended up with a lexus LOL.

 

BMWs have (IMO, for their price) terrible interiors, and although they are better in the driving department than lexus or mercs...i think this difference is SEVERELY overrated in this (and many other) forums. I have no trouble driving almost any well balanced rear wheel drive car as fast or as precise around the bends as a beemer...its just easier (and a little more fun) to push a beemer than any other car. At the end of the day the bottleneck is the driver, NOT the car.

 

I personally would not even touch a 4 cylinder beemer. there isnt much to appreciate there IMO unless you love badges (and i am not such a person). I dont consider any particular badge 'prestigious' unless we enter into the realm of maseratis and above.

 

Just a summary of my views. My preference priority (not including lexus) is 325>C200>C180>320 in that order. I would slot the lexus just behind the 325, and just ahead or on par with the C200.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Viceroymenthol

[Wt_know]

agreed. IS250 is the BEST BANG for the buck if you don't mind the super tight rear seat. V6 engine is

 

Thanks for your comments! They are very helpful and confirmed what I had felt all along, the IS250 is a real bang for the buck, although I tested both and found the C180 quite willing to rev, and the IS250 in contrast seems reluctant to move. From the official stats, there is only a one-plus second difference in 0-100kmh sprint times between both of them.

 

Which will last longer? The Lexus will last for decades of course, because it is a Toyota. And unfortunately that is also the reason preventing many BMW and Merc owners to buy a Lexus. But it is also the reason how a buyer could get a 2.5 litre V6 at that attractive price.

 

Decisions decisions...

Edited May 3, 2009 by Wt_know

[Neoxenon]

Which will last longer? The Lexus will last for decades of course, because it is a Toyota. And unfortunately that is also the reason preventing many BMW and Merc owners to buy a Lexus. But it is also the reason how a buyer could get a 2.5 litre V6 at that attractive price.

 

Decisions decisions...

 

I'm not sure about Lexus lasting longer than Mercedes and BMWs. I'm sure Lexus are well built, but I sure see much more old Mercedes and BMWs around than old Lexus.

[Leepee]

Everyone talks about inline six as though its a must have when it comes to BMW.

But how many really enjoys it? Yes the power is there, but so what?

In singapore road, can you relly feel it? Or is it just badge whore psychology bluffing the mind?

 

 

[inlinesix]

Everyone talks about inline six as though its a must have when it comes to BMW.

But how many really enjoys it? Yes the power is there, but so what?

In singapore road, can you relly feel it? Or is it just badge whore psychology bluffing the mind?

I can fully enjoy my IL-6 on tis island. I could give u a ride to try it.

 

[Throttle2]

Everyone talks about inline six as though its a must have when it comes to BMW.

But how many really enjoys it? Yes the power is there, but so what?

In singapore road, can you relly feel it? Or is it just badge whore psychology bluffing the mind?

 

 

you are missing the point once again.

who's talking about power even?

you can have a 4 cylinder that is more powerful then a 6 easily but it takes a lot more to replicate the engine burble.

 

Yes on any road you can feel it.

especially singapore roads which are well maintained in general.

some people like it some people dont, which is fine.

but yes, you can feel it for sure.

 

maybe you are an insensitive guy, i dont know

I recommend you try riding a 2 stroke bike, then a 4 stroke bike and then a flat six bike, then you might really be able to feel it.

 

 

 

[Kelpie]

you are missing the point once again.

who's talking about power even?

you can have a 4 cylinder that is more powerful then a 6 easily but it takes a lot more to replicate the engine burble.

 

Yes on any road you can feel it.

especially singapore roads which are well maintained in general.

some people like it some people dont, which is fine.

but yes, you can feel it for sure.

 

maybe you are an insensitive guy, i dont know

I recommend you try riding a 2 stroke bike, then a 4 stroke bike and then a flat six bike, then you might really be able to feel it.

 

I always like to tell others that buying a 320i is like buying a Subaru without a Turbo. Sure, you still get to drive a Subaru badge home without the Turbo just like a BMW without their famous IL-6.

 

I happened to ask my Malaysian counterpart just yesterday that why there aren't many Subaru on MY roads? He told me Subaru TC cars cost as much as an entry level BMW. Ironically, people still go for badge hence you get to see more BMW on their roads.

 

Regards,

[Kelpie]

It is not as if there isn't any rear centre seat space. There is space, just not as much as an Altis or Civic. If you want space, go for an SUV or a large sedan. The cars discussed here are compact luxury sedans. As you know, trying to include as much interior space as possible was not always the top priority to the designers in this segment of car. I guess the engineers at Stuttgart and Munich assumed that buyers of this category of cars won't be hauling a large family around all the time (they have the R Class or X5 for that).

 

For me, this lesser rear centre seat space issue is insignificant when I have a front-rear set up. That was the way god intended cars to be! None of that FWD nonsense for me.

 

I'm not seeing it from a design angle but rather a technological handicap. This high hump thingy has been around for ages in car-making history of RWD cars. I'm just wondering can't there be any technological breakthrough that don't require such a high hump at the rear centre? It will be perfect then.

 

Regards,

[Mcfguy]

Those prices won't ever be advertised, the SE will tell you at the showroom. Like you said, they have to stick to "Listed Price" to maintain status. But actual sales price is another story

 

 

C&C will offer a 10% financial booster added to your car's trade in value and an additional 8% off based on the loan amount at interest of 3.2% (If I understand it correctly). Which is a better deal? to take high loan and get high discount or to take minimal loan (say 20K-30K for a year) and save on loan interest? anyone did any calculations?

[Wt_know]

performance is never enough whether it is 4-pot, 6-pot, 8-pot.

i always wonder why a M3 owner still need to mod his car for performance.

so, performance is to each his own.

 

Everyone talks about inline six as though its a must have when it comes to BMW.

But how many really enjoys it? Yes the power is there, but so what?

In singapore road, can you relly feel it? Or is it just badge whore psychology bluffing the mind?

Edited May 3, 2009 by Wt_know

[Felipe]

Yes. For Merc and BMW, you have to be a serious buyer before you can find out the actual selling price. And if you're willing to accept a car already in storage (and may be of a less popular colour or option listing as well as earlier manufactured date), you can get a bargain. For e.g. E200 NGT.

 

 

& u can pretty much say its the same for other conti makes like saab, alfa, audi etc. its actually one of the best times to get s premium conti. it won't cost way more than a luxury jap, lexus not included.

[Teriyaki]

Bro,

 

Relax.. We are all here to share and learn.. Thanks for your many valuable comments as well.. Really appreciate your contribution.

 

 

Cheers

[Teriyaki]

So.....

 

C200 from PI compared to C180 from C&C and 320i from PML... what's the pros and cons?

 

Lexus is a good car too... But I won't be considering that option..

[Upandcoming]

So.....

 

C200 from PI compared to C180 from C&C and 320i from PML... what's the pros and cons?

 

Lexus is a good car too... But I won't be considering that option..

 

 

brother c200PI can only compare c200 c&c leh...because c180 and c200 r different. the latter comes standard with parktronic (6 front 4 rear with radar indicator on dash), 2 sides of memory seats (hence auto tilt side mirror when reverse), , 184bhp 270(?)torque compared with the former no parktronic (local fit sensor), electric both side no memory, 156bhp 250 torque.

 

c200pi omv 34-37 c200 c&c omv 43

c180 c&c omv 37.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Upandcoming

[Vblaster_w211]

I'm not seeing it from a design angle but rather a technological handicap. This high hump thingy has been around for ages in car-making history of RWD cars. I'm just wondering can't there be any technological breakthrough that don't require such a high hump at the rear centre? It will be perfect then.

 

Regards,

 

It is simple mechanics. You need to transfer power from front engine to rear wheel, hence the hump for the driveshaft. Without the hump, it will mean the entire car platform sits way high, which raises CG and spoils handling.

 

[Kelpie]

It is simple mechanics. You need to transfer power from front engine to rear wheel, hence the hump for the driveshaft. Without the hump, it will mean the entire car platform sits way high, which raises CG and spoils handling.

 

Yes, it is simple and the easiest way out for the manufacturers. Why not a narrower or flattened shaft or twin shafts from the left and right? Alternatively, push the shaft to the boot.

 

Regards,