COE solutions??

[Cerano]

This is not a false dilemma. In my opinion even with balloting, usage based systems etc, it must still go hand in hand with a quota system (aka COE)

 

No other way controls the absolute number of cars totally.

 

If theres is space only for 100 cars, there should only be quota for 100 cars.

 

Agreed that is exactly the point of balloting. You just change the manner of allocation to that of a non-monetary method

[Hi_torq]

Agreed that is exactly the point of balloting. You just change the manner of allocation to that of a non-monetary method

 

Agreed.

 

Let us consider that we allow about 500,000 cars for a population of 2 million. That each person gets an equal opportunity to own a car. Let us assume that a person is going to drive from age of 20 to 60 (for simple arithmetic only). With equal opportunity system, he gets a chance to drive only for 10 years out of 40 years. Next 30 years, he is going to complain (as most of the people are complaining now). And as there is going to be demand, how do you ensure that nobody will sell his car at a premium? As there will be supply-demand imbalance (like now), the premium will be almost same as current COE. If you are going to make a profit of about 90K, what will you do?

 

As long as this supply-demand imbalance is there, this pricing will remain twisted. Dealers themselves make a gross (not net) profit of 30K-80K on each car and people are paying.

 

Smallers cars are out because, the profit on them is less than 10K, and the volume is not sufficient to support their sales.

 

It is plain economis. You can try balloting, COE, ERP, ARF, etc, the people who can pay more will always find a way out to beat the system.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Hi_torq

[Maseratigood]

Agreed.

 

Let us consider that we allow about 500,000 cars for a population of 2 million. That each person gets an equal opportunity to own a car. Let us assume that a person is going to drive from age of 20 to 60 (for simple arithmetic only). With equal opportunity system, he gets a chance to drive only for 10 years out of 40 years. Next 30 years, he is going to complain (as most of the people are complaining now). And as there is going to be demand, how do you ensure that nobody will sell his car at a premium? As there will be supply-demand imbalance (like now), the premium will be almost same as current COE. If you are going to make a profit of about 90K, what will you do?

 

As long as this supply-demand imbalance is there, this pricing will remain twisted. Dealers themselves make a gross (not net) profit of 30K-80K on each car and people are paying.

 

Smallers cars are out because, the profit on them is less than 10K, and the volume is not sufficient to support their sales.

 

It is plain economis. You can try balloting, COE, ERP, ARF, etc, the people who can pay more will always find a way out to beat the system.

Maybe COEs bought thru balloting can only be returned to govt for refund, or transfer to the next car, the existing car will be sold to a buyer who has to get his own own COE either thru ballot (public COE) or "private" COE. In other words, the COE doesnt stick with the same car permanently.

[Hi_torq]

Maybe COEs bought thru balloting can only be returned to govt for refund, or transfer to the next car, the existing car will be sold to a buyer who has to get his own own COE either thru ballot (public COE) or "private" COE. In other words, the COE doesnt stick with the same car permanently.

 

The question still remains - are the rest of 1.5 million are ready to keep quite? Those who have owned, are they ready to make way for others after 10 years? Now most of them who got the cars are complaining that they can't continue to buy again.

 

What about the guys who can pay premium - they hire the Car from owner? Already, people are renting out cars.

 

If people after owning a car once for 10 years are ready to give up owning a car, this COE problem is automatically solved and COE prices will come down to very low level.

 

We have to look at the whole country and it's population and not through individual eyes.

[Hi_torq]

As long as number of people wishing to own a car remains more than the number of available cars, this problem will never solved. And if people are willing to pay the premium, prices will continue to rise.

 

[Thedream]

What I mean is that whatever we go, we end up same way. Our land resources and population doesn't match.

 

To get the dream of all fulfilled, our population has to come down to about a million. People can have the car and house of their choice. But the living cost will much higher. And then we won't need public transport. No COE is required. Just like USA, cars are cheap, and public transport is poor.

 

since my nick was mentioned...

 

I argue that the notion that we already have too many cars on the roads is wrong.

 

For those of you who have friends working in the outskirts (yes, I know they are rare), they will ask you "what car population problem?"

 

I have a friend who stays in Tiong Bahru and works in Yishun, and says he can get to work during peak hours in less than half an hour.

 

All this frustration is because we have planners and even citizens who stubbornly believe we must have a city centre and residential areas in the outskirts. As a result, everyone is jamming up the same roads and train tracks in the same direction at the same time.

 

To take it to the extreme, if we could walk 15 minutes to our workplace, I think the majority of us would. Then so few of us would be contributing to traffic on the roads and places on the trains. But this is only possible if we stop, and even start reducing the need for people to squeeze in the same direction at the same time.

 

I see the last few discussions about the demand on COEs. If most of us didn't need to drive or take a bus/mrt to/from work, then there would not be any jams, and the supply of COEs can be greatly increased, and hence the price will come right down. Many more of us can own cars, even though we don't use them to travel to/from work.

[Wt_know]

yeah, even you have a coe on hand, you cant get a car from AD ... i say one

they will give you a price that shut you up

 

U could do your part by bidding your own COE before going to AD.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Wt_know

[Hi_torq]

since my nick was mentioned...

 

I argue that the notion that we already have too many cars on the roads is wrong.

 

For those of you who have friends working in the outskirts (yes, I know they are rare), they will ask you "what car population problem?"

 

I have a friend who stays in Tiong Bahru and works in Yishun, and says he can get to work during peak hours in less than half an hour.

 

All this frustration is because we have planners and even citizens who stubbornly believe we must have a city centre and residential areas in the outskirts. As a result, everyone is jamming up the same roads and train tracks in the same direction at the same time.

 

To take it to the extreme, if we could walk 15 minutes to our workplace, I think the majority of us would. Then so few of us would be contributing to traffic on the roads and places on the trains. But this is only possible if we stop, and even start reducing the need for people to squeeze in the same direction at the same time.

 

I see the last few discussions about the demand on COEs. If most of us didn't need to drive or take a bus/mrt to/from work, then there would not be any jams, and the supply of COEs can be greatly increased, and hence the price will come right down. Many more of us can own cars, even though we don't use them to travel to/from work.

 

Absolutely correct.

 

Cut down the demand. As I mentioned earlier, use motorbikes, bicycles wherever possible. As they have managed with some success in Netherlands.

 

 

[Mllcg]

Absolutely correct.

 

Cut down the demand. As I mentioned earlier, use motorbikes, bicycles wherever possible. As they have managed with some success in Netherlands.

 

bicycle not allowed on pedestrian walkways here.

 

in japan very liberal. no cursing and swearing and all

[Cerano]

Absolutely correct.

 

Cut down the demand. As I mentioned earlier, use motorbikes, bicycles wherever possible. As they have managed with some success in Netherlands.

 

Motorbikes are very dangerous. After the nearly fatal accident i no longer dare to ride

 

 

[Jiex]

Didn't see so much noise and creative solutions like now when there was abundance of COE in 2008-2011...

[Maseratigood]

since my nick was mentioned...

 

I argue that the notion that we already have too many cars on the roads is wrong.

 

For those of you who have friends working in the outskirts (yes, I know they are rare), they will ask you "what car population problem?"

 

I have a friend who stays in Tiong Bahru and works in Yishun, and says he can get to work during peak hours in less than half an hour.

 

All this frustration is because we have planners and even citizens who stubbornly believe we must have a city centre and residential areas in the outskirts. As a result, everyone is jamming up the same roads and train tracks in the same direction at the same time.

 

To take it to the extreme, if we could walk 15 minutes to our workplace, I think the majority of us would. Then so few of us would be contributing to traffic on the roads and places on the trains. But this is only possible if we stop, and even start reducing the need for people to squeeze in the same direction at the same time.

 

I see the last few discussions about the demand on COEs. If most of us didn't need to drive or take a bus/mrt to/from work, then there would not be any jams, and the supply of COEs can be greatly increased, and hence the price will come right down. Many more of us can own cars, even though we don't use them to travel to/from work.

Agreed!

 

Singapore is small and therefore no need to 'create' a CBD to jam everyone within it.

We need more decentralisation so that people could work near where they live. Tampines Business Centre, or Changi Bussiness Centre, etc are some examples. When you live and work near such centres, what traffic jams you face going to work and back? While decentralisation will not solve traffic congestions 100%, it will help a lot to spread out traffic volumes and ease traffic jams.

 

When people only need to travel short distances to work, they may even walk or cycle.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Maseratigood

[Maseratigood]

repeat deleted

Edited January 13, 2013 by Maseratigood

[Maseratigood]

U could do your part by bidding your own COE before going to AD.

There's another way which i took: when i bought my cars, i told dealer what cap i am prepared to let him bid for me, if he disagreed, i walked away and continued using my existing car, I could live with an old car. Dont change car wont die, for me.

 

Maybe i am lucky as i managed to chang cars when COE prices were reasonable to me, not sure when my luck will run out though

[Nguyenht]

If we adopt ballot method, how about something like housing ie public vs private where the former serves the need of the not so rich, the latter the rich or quite rich?

 

For example, just as a concept ------ divide COEs into pub n pte categories. Those who are eligible for the pub ones will have to ballot for one and pay a price linked to some kind of cost of living index etc, the COEs is non transferable as described below for pte COEs. Pte COEs are for bidding, bidders can bid as high as they want but pay as they bid, dealers not allowed to bid and it's non transferable in the first three years.

 

Just testing the idea.

 

It boils down to basic supply and demand. Gov't restricts supply, demands shoots up, prices go up.

 

You put any kind of ballot, fix pricing or schemes, you will create a secondary market. For example, everyone will want to ballot. Once I win the ballot, I will go on to mycarforum and put out an ad saying, "I just got a COE from ballot. Who wants to pay me $10,000 and I will buy the car that you want and sell it to you." (not saying I WOULD do this, but people will...)

 

So the end price for a balloted car will be near that of a pte car... sooner or later. And we will end up in the same place. (except the govt doesn't get all the COE cash)

[Cerano]

It boils down to basic supply and demand. Gov't restricts supply, demands shoots up, prices go up.

 

You put any kind of ballot, fix pricing or schemes, you will create a secondary market. For example, everyone will want to ballot. Once I win the ballot, I will go on to mycarforum and put out an ad saying, "I just got a COE from ballot. Who wants to pay me $10,000 and I will buy the car that you want and sell it to you." (not saying I WOULD do this, but people will...)

 

So the end price for a balloted car will be near that of a pte car... sooner or later. And we will end up in the same place. (except the govt doesn't get all the COE cash)

 

Exactly why it should be split into categories again.

Several non transferable and one open cat which can be resold

[RadX]

Another clown suggestion......sighhhhhh

 

 

Limit small-car COE category to Asean-made models

IT IS timely for the certificate of entitlement (COE) categories to be reviewed as engine capacity is no longer the sole determinant of a car's size and status, with prestigious European brands appearing in the Category A segment ("Govt closely studying ideas to improve COE system"; last Friday).

 

Category A should continue to be for cars under 1,600cc, but be limited to models manufactured within the Asean region.

 

There are four reasons for this:

 

First, car manufacturers that have set up factories in Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia have developed models specifically for Asean, for instance, the Toyota Vios and Honda City. These models are smaller and more affordable than the mainstream models.

 

Second, Indonesia has become a hub for small sub-1,600cc seven-seater multi-purpose vehicle (MPV) production. Models such as the Suzuki APV and Daihatsu Terios 7 are manufactured only in Indonesia. Honda, Nissan and Toyota also make small MPVs in Indonesia, but the present COE prices make them unattractive for sale here.

 

Third, Asean models are more eco-friendly. Nissan, Honda and Mitsubishi have introduced eco-friendly models in response to Thai government regulations for cars manufactured there. But we do not get these eco-friendly models here.

 

Fourth, Singapore should support fellow Asean members and send a signal to the world's carmakers that they should invest in the region. After all, jobs created in a neighbouring Asean country benefit Singapore as well.

 

Lee Chen Chung

[Zyklon]

since my nick was mentioned...

 

I argue that the notion that we already have too many cars on the roads is wrong.

 

For those of you who have friends working in the outskirts (yes, I know they are rare), they will ask you "what car population problem?"

 

Not true. Car population problem is an issue even in the non- CBD area.

 

It probably depends on what hour of the day more than location.

 

I stay in cck and work at ntu. Journey will take at least 30mins if I leave home at 8am. It is just jam from cck all the way to NTU. It is just queueing to get out of home carpark, queueing at traffic lights, queueing to get onto expressway KJE, queueing to move along KJE, queueing to exit KJE, queueing to enter NTU, queueing to move along the single lane roads in NTU, queueing to enter my carpark...typical overall average speed without traffic accident is about 15-20km/hr. If somebody has an accident on kje, then jialat liao, can't even get out of 1st gear.

 

Same journey will only take 12-15mins if I leave home at 11am.

 

Even if I used lim chu kang road instead of kje, traffic is equally bad.

 

Traffic used to be much lighter just 5-6years ago.