Used Car Dealers Feedback (Part 2)!

[Kian26]

Ya. Thanks to this forum, I learnt a lot here

Thanks everyone for your kind advice!

[evidence]

Ok.. It's confirmed the mileage is tampered.

Just asked Agent, mentioned car was last service there in 2012 and mileage was 160,000km

I got the car and mileage is only 89,000.

Ok anyway...

Just hope the car got no major prob. All these wear & tear is part n parcel of used car.

Just hope the transmission don't die on me...

 

The dealer told me "his boss steady one. If got gear box prob, go back to him. He sure do one."

Now only o2 sensor spoil, he say "my boss say can't already la. He do a lot of things for this car already."

When He only fixed the fuel pump for me. *And the fuel pump spoil just in 2 days after I collected the car..

"I didn't know I so "powderful" can drive car until fuel pump spoil.. "

[evidence]

Anyone kana conned by Used-Car Dealer posting as "Direct Seller"  in SgCarMart?

 

My friend kana tricked by one for the dealer...went to dealer's home to test drive...then was told it was a "company " car...need to pay extra admin fee, loan process fee, insurance process fee, ..total about $1k.

 

there a many  "direct seller" in sgcarmart...be careful...%oseph , 9Z, 7awrenc3 6eo,

&ohn %ing / M$ L!8 / Sa# Go?

 

   

some may be brokers..take cars from other dealers to sell, 

some want to escape the lemon law clause

 

so better be prepared...so many disguise....

at the end of the day..choose ur car wisely...many jaws just want to eat....

[Kian26]

the mileage is high, its a matter of time for the gb......

anyway its a bad n unacceptable practice to tweak the mileage.....

 

thanks for sharing ur plight, nowadays really, to find gd sellers very difficult...and they talked like sweet

little things but when got problems become like monsters

Ya... First time getting used car hopefully Coe can drop further.. But very unlikely. Previous cars were bought brand new from agent so def no prob.

Never expect used car dealers to be like this to tampered mileage. I have no idea who tampered. It may not be this dealer whom I bought the car from. It maybe the previous owner who tampered and sell to dealer. Who knows?

So lesson learnt again. If I want to get used car Infuture, really got to do a lot of homework before buying.

[Kian26]

I have bought and traded-in more than a dozen used cars so far and all one has to do is open mouth and ask. If not, ask that the dealer drive u to your mechanic.

 

I have even picked up my mechanic from his workshop and bring him along to view the vehicle in question.

 

The real issue is that most singaporeans are docile and have too much money but too little common sense.

 

The sequence of actions is this:

1. Do homework and know the paper values and depreciation. Know your own loan limits. Then narrow down to a couple of units per day.

 

2. Check interior smells and start engine, play with aircon etc. Ask for service receipts, manual, recent lta log card printout. Then verbally negotiate price you are comfortable with. Ask about all other charges, so can be wary. Not happy, ok because no money changed hands.

 

3. Ask for dealer to drive to your mechanic or AA. U pay for inspection fees and even offer $30 for petrol. Do not pay any deposit yet before inspection. If must pay, keep it to $500 using credit card and write out clearly the acceptance conditions on the sales agreement. Do not be afraid to spell out clearly in the remarks space eg. "Reject and full deposit refund if any structural or engine accident, including any gearbox/transmission issues."

 

4. Prepare to do all this on weekday, so do take leave and don't be lazy.

 

5. After takeover the car, prepare to spend on changing all oils/fluids, brake pads, tyres, battery, do alignment, decarbonisation, aircon flush and servicing, interior steam clean and exterior deep polish. This is a way to thank your mechanic with continued business. Don't be cheapo.

 

Plse print above and keep in wallet in preparation for next used car encounter.

Thanks Bro

[Kian26]

If you took an in-house loan, make sure the lta logcard printout displays your name. You are likely paying very high effective rate interest for such an old used car.

 

Be very careful with in-house loan because money lenders are vicious and mean-spirited if you miss a payment by a few days. They are looking for all ways to overcharge you fees or tow-away and sell off your car and saddle you with the loan.

 

If I were u, watch how the new car prices move and switch to a japanese new car. Major distributor will give fairer trade-in and you will cut your risk and loss over this liability. Drive a new Mz3 or 2 sedan is much better and as safe as old volvo.

 

Volvos before the Geely buyover (2010) very poor reliability and efficiency. You new buyer with pincarton syndrome regarding contis.

Ok..

I didn't take loan.

Reason y I got this is high omv.

My family members all driving mercs & BMW.

Now I know y no one wants Volvo.

[Detach8]

Volvos before the Geely buyover (2010) very poor reliability and efficiency. You new buyer with pincarton syndrome regarding contis.

 

Nonsense. What basis are you saying this? I had a S40 and V50 both 2.4i NA and doing 9-10km/L and never broke down in 10 years (except for aircon compressor) compared to the BMW and Merc in our family which was having leaking this leaking that and gearbox issues.

 

The NEWER ones AFTER Geely took over are known to have more issues.

[allusedcardealersarecrooks]

@ cscbb "In reality, used car dealers are the lousy performers at work and cannot get any other professional job. They never assemble the car they have on the lot. They never service the unit.

 

Hey there, I think u are getting overboard. Was it necessary to make such a statement? Why don't u meet up with me and I show u my qualifications and past job portfolios before u make such ignorant discriminating statements stereotyping all used car dealers? Even though I'm no longer a dealer, I still find the words u've used very offending.

 

I can't be bothered to reason with u anymore becoz u are always sounding so high and mighty and forever replying with such condescending tone. What a Mr Know-It-All. Just becoz u have handled a dozen of cars in your life time and you are a "trader" for a living and u think u know how everything the car trade works? Let me tell u that u are far from experiencing cheapskate, unreasonable and lowballers buyers/sellers on a daily basis.

 

So pls, give your advice to fellow forumers who have been conned by unscrupulous dealers by all means. But phrase your words fairly and stop accusing all dealers with your "u think u know it all attitude". I'm lazy to dig out all your postings but some generalization statements that u have made are simply naive and ignorant seriously. Gosh, why do such people even exist.

Edited February 5, 2016 by allusedcardealersarecrooks

[Kian26]

Nonsense. What basis are you saying this? I had a S40 and V50 both 2.4i NA and doing 9-10km/L and never broke down in 10 years (except for aircon compressor) compared to the BMW and Merc in our family which was having leaking this leaking that and gearbox issues.

 

The NEWER ones AFTER Geely took over are known to have more issues.

Actually I went ard to ask. detach8 is right. Many said before geely took over, Volvo is better.

More prob arises only after geely took over.

Reason Y some people prefers BMW and merc is body value higher and much higher omv which means BMW & merc are like Rolex while Volvo is like tag heuer.(ok don't know if I shld compare it like this) that's what I found out from my husband and brothers.

And disadvantage of Volvo compared to merc & BMW is the spare parts are slightly more expensive too. Wonder if it's true?

 

@cscbb Anyway, I didn't do much hw comparing all conti cars. So u can call me inexperience. I only can drive and been driving for 11 years. I just get what I think it's nice and I like and of cos within our budget. :)

Edited February 6, 2016 by Kian26

[Kian26]

It's not 'luck'. It's about being informed and prepared. And narrow down the choices with regard to one's financial situation.

 

We have a singaporean hangup in that we are easily offended. Scared to 'lose face'. So buying big ticket item becomes an exercise in showing off and displaying our status.

 

We treat used car dealers like gatekeepers who approve our loans and 'allow' us to buy their precious car. In reality, used car dealers are the lousy performers at work and cannot get any other professional job. They never assemble the car they have on the lot. They never service the unit. Yet we entrust them with tens of thousands. Even hundred thousand dollar loans! We think that the one used car on their lot is the only one available. So rare so precious. Think about it.

 

So in front of the dealer, we act big and pretend that big loan no issue, pay more no issue. To try to boast that we can 'afford' to pay. Even worse when we go and buy conti car, thinking that conti car will enhance our status and self-esteem. We 'gian' for status, so the dealers sharpen their knives keener.

 

The dealers know these weaknesses and are predators to slaughter sheep like us.

Finally I got some time to scroll up to read the messages one by one...

U meet Hao Lian buyers.. I'm the other way round lor.

I wore slipper, tshirt and shorts. Like home wear to view cars regardless of 2nd hand car dealers or agent.

I realised that dealers always see the outlook of the customers. Gave me a very bo chap look. My husband wanted to test drive. Maybe that's also one of the factor y the dealer ask us to offer him first. Otherwise don't waste his time look and if offered price is reasonable, then he allow us to go for test drive which is the next day. I'm surprised my husband was still so patient and agree.

The feeling they gave us wasn't very friendly either. It was until the next day, aft test drive, my husband ask how is it, I said ok. Trusted them(cos I've no experience buying used car) and my husband placed a 2k deposit. and only after that + my husband mentioned he will be paying full cash no loan, dealers all treated us better with more smile.... So sad how people view buyers. My mil said I'm very log cork... I can tell u, even if I go shopping at boutique at orchard, SA also won't chap me. It's me having to approach them wanting to buy something then people attend. But anyway it's fine much better for me cos I do not like people hanging ard me while I'm shopping

[Detach8]

But your individual experience cannot speak for the broader, documented nature of the brand. Consumer Reports, insurance company studies, AA and quality control labs document that Volvo is not tops in build quality nor reliability nor engine/transmission/road handling. Average to below average mostly.

 

Your positive experience is moderated by my friend's experience with an S40 T4 with faulty transmission and electronics. And another whose V50 T5 I wanted to buy (but decided against because of the tractor-sounding engine, lumpy suspension, creaky interior, and vague steering). My in-laws have a V60 now.

 

If u are alive behind the wheel, you will know that keen-handling front-wheel drive inline-fours are hondas, golf gti, alfas and mazdas.

 

2 models post-Geely buyout are known for shoddy application of the ford dual clutch transmission: XC60 and S60. And the ever present aircon issues across all models. But cannot erase the interior quality and electronics reliability issues of the older S60, S40 and XC90.

 

While one can be a fanboy to justify your purchase decisions, one also has to acknowledge the relevant documented independent test reports.

 

Oh yah, this is coming from a person who has NEVER owned a Volvo. Yawns.

 

I forgot to add that my family also owned a XC90 T5 just scrapped 2 months ago, and it was fine till the last year when it started to develop engine oil leaks (and hence your description "tractor sounding engine" is probably the tappet noise when oil is low), but give and take... a big car with a small turbocharged engine at 10 years old and close to 200k on the ODO, it has done well.

 

So having owned, driven and maintained 3 Volvos (S40 - 5 years since new, V50 - 5 years since 5 years old till scrap and XC90 - 2 years since 8 years old till scrap) and telling you that I've never had issues with Volvo (except for aircon compressor failures in the S40/V50, which I also had on all my other cars including a 2 year old brand new Nissan Latio) the Volvo has outperformed many other cars in the family going through the same ownership and maintenance.

 

A lot of Volvos are kaput because the owners went to tune them (yes, they drive a little sluggish) and have poor maintenance habits. 

 

Golf? My FRIEND (heh "FRIEND" again... sounds familiar?) has a Golf GTI Mk6 (2010) and is going in to the work shop 2-3 times a year for repairs that exceed $1K.

 

On the other hand my wife now drives a Golf Mk6 1.4TSI Sport and my mum drives a Golf Mk7 1.4TSI... yes both have the dreaded dry clutch DSG, and yes I am going to tell you both do not have issues with the car yet.

 

Just to share a story... my wife sold her "reliable" Japanese Mazda 2 (prior to switching to the Golf) to my friend with exactly 1 year left to scrap, and the car was in good working condition when we sold it. We just replaced the aircon compressor a few months ago. We replaced many parts, and even after he bought it for a month a wheel bearing failed and made quite a bit of noise, so I offered to replace it FOC for him. 3 months after the friend took over, the gearbox started to exhibit some delay in moving off. This is quite obvious a AT gearbox losing pressure. My mechanic quoted $1K+, and I told him to just get it fixed and I will co-share the repairs since it's less than 1 year since he took over, but he declined and did not want to spend the money since the car is going to scrap in 9 months or so. Right now the car has 2-3 months left, and the gearbox is close to kaput. He has to warm up the car for 15-20 minutes every morning before it would even engage, and it will stall when he stops at traffic. If he had decided to just fix the gearbox, the car would be working fine till today. And today if he wanted to repair his gearbox, it would be ~$3K, because he busted all the seals by continuing to drive it when it is failing. This is the reason why cars fail. Whatever statistics you have mean nothing when the way the car is being treated is not factored in.

 

At the end of the day, buy any car you like... I tell all my friends that it all boils down to maintenance. Of course some cars are really known to be worse than others... and I would say for example BMW E90 320i is one to be avoided, but most others, including all Volvos built 2005-2010 are good.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Detach8

[Weez911]

Wow that's a very long retort. Took me a while to finish this page, but I did, and I learnt something today.

 

Volvo is both reliable and unreliable.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Weez911

[PSP415]

Wow that's a very long retort. Took me a while to finish this page, but I did, and I learnt something today.

 

Volvo is both reliable and unreliable.

[Detach8]

Your fanboy cheerleading is detracting from the issue: the statistics do paint a clearer picture of parts/build quality and reliability. A pattern does emerge.

 

Despite your maintenance, important parts fail for a brand that is priced higher, unlike brands at top of the reliability charts. You also have nothing much to say about other brands since you never owned those.

 

The discussion here is to help newbies facing used car purchase. They need to be prepared for extra maintenance issues for some brands over and above negotiating with the sleazy used car dealers.

You calling me a fanboy is no different than me calling you a slutty whore and I find it very rude, so please refrain from name-calling unless you want to be called similarly or if you want a proper discussion. If you continue to do so I will basically stop responsing to you.

 

I have owned and driven more than a dozen vehicles including a '96 Nissan March (which I still own till today), a '04 Subaru Impreza 1.6A, a '08 Nissan Latio, '06 Mazda 2, and also Volvos, BMWs, Volkswagens and Mercedes. No doubt I am impressed by the reliability of the Subaru and Volvo, I'm no fanboy of any specific brand(s). I am, however a "fanboy" of engineering; I appreciate good engineering and understand the cost to complexity relation. Unlike a person who reads reviews and "reliability reports", I live only to share by my own true personal experiences and not parrot some nonsesne I read on Google/Wikipedia.

 

I've also driven a relative's Myvi (which is a Daihatsu) in Malaysia and it has a broken roll bar bushing making it very unstable taking left corners, a failing AT gearbox, spoilt window switches, spoilt door locks, squeaking everywhere... and I am not sure if my Volvo was ever that bad. Then again, being a cheap car in Malaysia, MAINTENANCE is often neglected and it's being driven on bad roads, etc. Once again, a very unfair comparison for reliability.

 

No doubt Japs are GENERALLY more reliable (because they are simpler cars duh -- try asking what's the maintenance for a Nissan GT-R versus an Audi R8) but reliability is not to be generalised by brand or make. Specifc MODELS within a brand can be more reliable than others. Price is never directly proportionate to reliability. There are so many factors to consider... drive, performance, comfort, prestige, etc. People pay a million bucks for a Lamborgini or a Rolls Royce, but both have very different maintenence requirements.

 

As for newbies, my advice has always been to buy the car in a as-is condition and be PREPARED to repair the car whatever the make. Always negotiate to the cheapest, don't ask for freebies or repairs. If the car is clearly problematic just walk away. Even if one buys a Toyota, it could also turn out to be a big sour lemon.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Detach8

[vincentan]

Alright. thanks for sharing. will take note.

[vincentan]

Thanks. learn a lot from this thread. 

[1fast1]

i think is this car:

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=524626&DL=2845

The fact that it's listed as SOLD (in such a short time after this posting) tells me something. The dealer likely got a better offer so decided to play hard ball with TS rather than just give him a straight 'no'. Maybe to save face.

 

Dealers rarely keep their word anyway. Many of them are borderline sociopaths. Unless you have a deposit and a legally binding contract, "peng way" is very common. And even with a contract, the cost of enforcing it will likely outweigh any benefit you see in the transaction. Best to walk away, lesson learnt.

[Detach8]

Nah, for the consumer reports fanboy:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/money/cars/2015/11/05/countdown-consumer-reports-20-least-reliable-cars/75263966/

 

Like I said, certain models within the brand can be problematic. See Nissans and Mercedes in there? Where's BMW or Volvo?