Property Agents' commission

[Beregond]

some time ppl very funny.

 

for example before u use the agent, u already knew before hand how much com he gonna make

but it make u feel good if u see him work like hell to complete the deal.

but if he make it seem so easy , u feel tulan, ( but dun forget if it seem easy to him, its cos he is the pro in that area )

 

if u are the type that buay ta han ppl make your money 1, alway can diy, 

 

see ppl collect money very easy, but when u want to do it yourself. every thing change.

 

if ever come across at tyres shop, the driver tell the boss, waa poke only 5 mins nia, like that 12buks liao?

can cheaper or not.

and the boss reply, nvm i lend u all my tooles free. u diy , i dun charge u any thing.

( hear liao i arm chio )

[LPPL]

The main gripe i hear from my friends is that they felt that the agent comms is unjustified and disproportionate to the actual work that they do.

 

this is even more so ever since property prices skyrocketed with all the foreign money inflow into sg.

 

Did property agents do more work as compared to previously?

 

For a service of convenience, there is rightly a fee to be paid. It is the quantum that most people are not happy with.

$10000 (excluding gst) or 2% com is way too high for selling a $500k hdb flat. For condos $1mil and above the comms are even more ridiculous. Sellers are capable of selling their own houses but there must be fair competition and no anti-competitive practices out there.

[Acemundo]

some time ppl very funny.

 

for example before u use the agent, u already knew before hand how much com he gonna make

but it make u feel good if u see him work like hell to complete the deal.

but if he make it seem so easy , u feel tulan, ( but dun forget if it seem easy to him, its cos he is the pro in that area )

 

if u are the type that buay ta han ppl make your money 1, alway can diy, 

 

see ppl collect money very easy, but when u want to do it yourself. every thing change.

 

if ever come across at tyres shop, the driver tell the boss, waa poke only 5 mins nia, like that 12buks liao?

can cheaper or not.

and the boss reply, nvm i lend u all my tooles free. u diy , i dun charge u any thing.

( hear liao i arm chio )

 

agree with you.  most things with properties, cars and house maintenance i don't DIY bcos of lack of time, need for a lot of effort or need to suffer the unpleasant aspects of it.

 

but of course, there are the odd few times i did the sale, rental or maintenance of house and car on my own.  most of the times when i did so is because i am quite free, i have the expertise and i dont have to suffer much unpleasantry when i did them and the savings justify it.  then there are also the cases of some types of agent see some types of properties, always take the easy way out by offering a low asking price/rent.  by selling/renting on our own, besides saving the commission, we also gain with a higher price/rent.   

Edited October 5, 2016 by Acemundo

[LoverofCar]

PG is anti competitive not because of the users they target, it is in their exclusion of owners to advertise their own properties, in a sense forcing owners to use their registered agents. PG has forgotten one very important thing, without owners selling or renting in the first place, they have no business. I think this is not the way for PG to repay their kindness to property owners out there. If they want to earn money, very simple, just charge the same kind of subscription they charge to agents for owners to advertise and I am sure their business will double.

 

I'm not from PG but I believe their business is to provide a system for agents to advertise their products and help secure businesses for the agents.  So this is their value add to the agents and so agents are willing to pay them to advertise in their website.   Every business have their intended model of operation.  If they open up to everyone......they are no different from gumtree or carousell.   Again as I said. There are always other channel for owners and buyers to go to but most feel that PG have the most updated and perhaps the widest data they can depend on.  May be buyers can also go knock doors on potential sellers so that they can buy the property from them directly and is free......

Edited October 5, 2016 by LoverofCar

[Glyuen]

there of course has to be a fee for a service and for a reasonable amount.

 

i feel that such services should have a fixed range rather than a percentage of the total transaction amount. 

 

those services that require specialised tools or training no choice. 

 

i will gladly pay...

$30 for a good haircut. 

$100 for a good massage. 

$120 for cleaning my teeth at my regular dentist 2 times a yr

Same for car repairs and maintenance. 

 

selling house may require specialised technical capabilities which the lawyer will provide and fees will be paid. 

 

but buying and selling houses and cars, the govt has made it sufficiently adequate to DIY without much hassle. esp for HDB. all it takes is some effort. 

 

for eg

 

https://www.ecitizen.gov.sg/Topics/Pages/Selling-your-HDB-flat-A-step-by-step-guide.aspx

 

i'm sorry if i have offended any property agent reading this.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Glyuen

[LoverofCar]

there of course has to be a fee for a service and the amount is reasonable. 

 

those services that require specialised tools or training no choice. 

 

i will gladly pay...

$30 for a good haircut. 

$100 for a good massage. 

$120 for cleaning my teeth at my regular dentist 2 times a yr

Same for car repairs and maintenance. 

 

selling house may require specialised technical capabilities which the lawyer will provide and fees will be paid. 

 

but buying and selling houses and cars, the govt has made it sufficiently adequate to DIY without much hassle. esp for HDB. all it takes is some effort. 

 

for eg

 

https://www.ecitizen.gov.sg/Topics/Pages/Selling-your-HDB-flat-A-step-by-step-guide.aspx

 

Is definitely possible to DIY.  But some lazy people like me will want the agents to advertise for me...to talk to the potential buyers....to run my paperwork....to even filter low ballers.  The selling price is for me to set so I will factor in the agents commission in my selling price.......So if he know my minimum selling price, he won't bring any low ballers to me....if he still do so...he can F**k off and I won't engage him......remember, until all my needs are fulfilled, he don't earn my commission....and if he did what I want.....I'm willing to pay him...

 

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by LoverofCar

[LPPL]

For certain things like car repair or installation of aircon, DIY is too daunting a task for most people, but pty selling is self-teachable. Another really good point for the govt to encourage DIY property selling is to reduce transaction prices. Very often sellers will be factoring in agent fees into the selling price, creating an artificial layer on top of the actual price.

Edited October 5, 2016 by LPPL

[LPPL]

Is definitely possible to DIY. But some lazy people like me will want the agents to advertise for me...to talk to the potential buyers....to run my paperwork....to even filter low ballers. The selling price is for me to set so I will factor in the agents commission in my selling price.......So if he know my minimum selling price, he won't bring any low ballers to me....if he still do so...he can F**k off and I won't engage him......remember, until all my needs are fulfilled, he don't earn my commission....and if he did what I want.....I'm willing to pay him...

 

 

Don't forget that your time is precious as well. If you get agents that have so many listings to prioritise, chances of him putting your unit on a back burner is very high. Yes, you have the right to sack an ineffective agent, but remember that it could be months later. You market yourself, whether you receive calls from low ballers or not, you are in absolute control.

[Acemundo]

Is definitely possible to DIY.  But some lazy people like me will want the agents to advertise for me...to talk to the potential buyers....to run my paperwork....to even filter low ballers.  The selling price is for me to set so I will factor in the agents commission in my selling price.......So if he know my minimum selling price, he won't bring any low ballers to me....if he still do so...he can F**k off and I won't engage him......remember, until all my needs are fulfilled, he don't earn my commission....and if he did what I want.....I'm willing to pay him...

 

 

be aware that many agents even try to sell below the minimum selling price of the seller and not have the interest of their seller client in mind because :

 

1) they are taught by their agencies the trick of emotional entrapment by dangling the option cheque to persuade the seller to accept a lower asking price

2) the way they are remunerated, it makes every sense for them to sell quickly rather than be drawn into a protracted sale holding out for higher prices.

3) it is probably easier to persuade people to accept less rather than to pay more

[Still2016]

The debate will never end. While it is good to get if off one's chest. It does nothing moving forward.

 

Those who believes and sympathized with property agents or even insurance agents, perhaps can go one step further by naming the exemplary agents they encountered. In so doing, members can use them. This will encourage them to do better.

 

What you guys think?

 

 

PS: Personally I had never come across an honest agent yet. I don't want to explain myself but I am sure all of us are looking for that one agent that we can deal with for a long time.

[LPPL]

These days the only commitment agents have is to their pockets. If they find a buyer, they will show the buyer a list of units and yours is just one of the units. The moment the buyer says he is not keen on your unit, the agent would then divert his attention to swinging the buyer to other units to earn his cobroke commission, casting your unit one side. If the owner signed an exclusive with the agent, even better for the agent, coz he knows you can't run away n he can take his time.

[Showster]

Every man to work to earn his keep. What the Govt has done signalled the stand quite clearly and 1500+ has quit.

 

If people are still using their service and paying them comms, one can choose to join, to go through them or not to.

 

Its a free market. No point griping about what others apparently has.

 

We see agents have high comms, teachers have long holidays, MPs and ministers have high pay for part-time work, businessmen earnings shiok. Join them and you see if it is justifiable to feel that way.

[LPPL]

Every man to work to earn his keep. What the Govt has done signalled the stand quite clearly and 1500+ has quit.

 

If people are still using their service and paying them comms, one can choose to join, to go through them or not to.

 

Its a free market. No point griping about what others apparently has.

 

We see agents have high comms, teachers have long holidays, MPs and ministers have high pay for part-time work, businessmen earnings shiok. Join them and you see if it is justifiable to feel that way.

This thread (not started by me) is on property agent's commission so the discussion here is centered on their commission and work. Nobody is griping, we are discussing.

[Showster]

This thread (not started by me) is on property agent's commission so the discussion here is centered on their commission and work. Nobody is griping, we are discussing.

Once I thought their work was so easy and envy them.

 

Then I had relatives joining and can never see them for weekends. Got all kinds of duties and false leads or follow up. Sometimes it eats even into lunchtimes.

 

Maybe the only thing good is a tiny bit more flexible and wake a bit later. There will always be those who prefer to use them and those who don't. Life with variable salary not everyone can take it.

[Still2016]

Once I thought their work was so easy and envy them.

 

Then I had relatives joining and can never see them for weekends. Got all kinds of duties and false leads or follow up. Sometimes it eats even into lunchtimes.

 

Maybe the only thing good is a tiny bit more flexible and wake a bit later. There will always be those who prefer to use them and those who don't. Life with variable salary not everyone can take it.

 

I agree with you but that brings me to think of poor taxi drivers. Just how many times do you hear property agents get go straight to hospital card. I am sure in any day, many taxi drivers get cursed by their clients, there are shift work - no work no pay, cannot use mobile to chat while at work, worried about being fine by TP all the time, weekends also burn because can earn more, some clients horrible - call booking but nowhere to be found especially those very early in the morning. Forgot to add, have not heard of taxi drivers earning million dollars from their driving.

 

I believe the problem stems from poor service provided by many with property agents. The commission is huge 1-2% of the gross rental or sale price. Most times, the expectation is not matched by the service provided by property agent. Furthermore, many property agencies always give this "false" impression that they got the "best, ethical and etc" agents from their company in their advertisement. Also there is a legacy problem with this profession.

 

Bro, the point is, the grass is always greener on the other side.

[Icedbs]

PG is anti competitive not because of the users they target, it is in their exclusion of owners to advertise their own properties, in a sense forcing owners to use their registered agents. PG has forgotten one very important thing, without owners selling or renting in the first place, they have no business. I think this is not the way for PG to repay their kindness to property owners out there. If they want to earn money, very simple, just charge the same kind of subscription they charge to agents for owners to advertise and I am sure their business will double.

 

I don't think PG is so dumb not to realise that there are far more buyers/sellers than agents. Doing direct buyer/seller business would have yield them far more $$$. And as a business,  I do not think they will be sympathetic to agents,  if the direct buyer/seller model would work.

 

The problem is,  for policy heavy (and complicated) country  like Singapore, the direct model will not work very well online.  Just one news online that a PG direct buyer-seller transaction deal falls through because of wrong buyer/seller eligibility will be enough to keep most buyers/sellers wary about using the platform. As an online business, I think what they want is a predictable perpetual revenue stream that is backed by professionals (agents)  rather than a possible windfall revenue that could be uncertain and may be impacted by wrong practices from buyers/sellers.

 

You need to understand that not every buyer/seller is as savvy as you. Similarly, despite all the information in the internet, most people would still prefer to go out to buy a PC than to read and find out how to save $$$ by assembling one themselves  Most people value their time, their job, their family than to go through the hassle of doing property transaction themselves where they have to spend time dealing with viewings, buyers. agents, etc and still need the knowledge to ensure that the transaction is legitimate and criminal free. So I am sure PG has their reason for not opening it up, but if the timing is right and all the buyers/sellers is knowledgeable and mature enough, I think PG will open it up faster than you could blink.

[LPPL]

I don't think PG is so dumb not to realise that there are far more buyers/sellers than agents. Doing direct buyer/seller business would have yield them far more $$$. And as a business, I do not think they will be sympathetic to agents, if the direct buyer/seller model would work.

 

The problem is, for policy heavy (and complicated) country like Singapore, the direct model will not work very well online. Just one news online that a PG direct buyer-seller transaction deal falls through because of wrong buyer/seller eligibility will be enough to keep most buyers/sellers wary about using the platform. As an online business, I think what they want is a predictable perpetual revenue stream that is backed by professionals (agents) rather than a possible windfall revenue that could be uncertain and may be impacted by wrong practices from buyers/sellers.

 

You need to understand that not every buyer/seller is as savvy as you. Similarly, despite all the information in the internet, most people would still prefer to go out to buy a PC than to read and find out how to save $$$ by assembling one themselves Most people value their time, their job, their family than to go through the hassle of doing property transaction themselves where they have to spend time dealing with viewings, buyers. agents, etc and still need the knowledge to ensure that the transaction is legitimate and criminal free. So I am sure PG has their reason for not opening it up, but if the timing is right and all the buyers/sellers is knowledgeable and mature enough, I think PG will open it up faster than you could blink.

For pte property transactions, OTP can be done directly at the law firm if sellers/buyers are not savvy, hence when a buyer is found, the next stop for buyers and sellers to go is straight to the law firm to sign. This opens up an avenue for PG to gain revenue from law firms advertising on their website, not just developers.

 

For hdb transactions, the first 4 pages of the standard otp from hdb already list out the procedure thoroughly. All PG needs to do is replicate that information on their website. With my model of allowing direct advertising from sellers, the site visits and business of PG will grow phenomenally.

 

Despite all that is mentioned above, PG can continue to pull in revenue from agents who would have to up their service standards to compete with the direct sellers. Agents can also contact the seller advertisers to match buyers to them for a com if they are a step faster than the sellers. To me this is healthy competition and should be encouraged. Any agent who is against is definitely not working in the interest of the housing market.

[Icedbs]

The main gripe i hear from my friends is that they felt that the agent comms is unjustified and disproportionate to the actual work that they do. 

 

this is even more so ever since property prices skyrocketed with all the foreign money inflow into sg.

 

Did property agents do more work as compared to previously? 

 

For a service of convenience, there is rightly a fee to be paid. It is the quantum that most people are not happy with.

Let's not forget that  the ecosystem that the agent work in, has also gone up in price in proportion to the increase in property prices. For example, marketing expenses, which is one of their biggest cost has certainly gone up few folds compare to 10 years ago. Just take a look at PG agent subscription for example. When PG first started, I think it was $400 or $500++/year and now it is  $980/year  And that's just a basic subscription. SPH ads had also gone up in price. Flyer printouts cost had also gone up . Even the fees to join an agency has gone up. And now, there are even yearly CEA fees  etc...which add to an agent expenses. In addition  there are property related training which agents need to go through these days, Training vendors had also increase their prices.

 

Basically most service and media vendors related to real estate business had increase their prices few folds over the last 10 years, so how can the agent , who uses all these services to market and build his business, charge a fix service fee? And when the quantum goes up, number of agents go up too which means stiffer competition and hence with longer days of no closing for most agents. And as the quantum goes up, their legal risk also goes up and that should be compensated for in accordance to the quantum.

 

Just remember that the agent work that you see is just the tip of an iceberg. There is a big part that most people do not see.You do not see them rushing around for training and viewings and often sacrifices meals and drinks.. You do not see them undergoing psychology stress due to no closing for weeks and no money to bring home for months.  You do not see them getting rejection and more rejection during door knocking and cold calling, and yet appear like it will be a better day tomorrow. You do not see them being told to arrange viewings only to see that the buyer/tenant did not even come. You do not see them when they were undercut by their very own "buddy" agents. You do not see them working till 11pm or 12am trying  to seal the deal only to see it fall through the last minute, no closing, no money and end up going home facing a very unhappy spouse.. All this happens all the time and it will happen again and again in an agent's career. 

 

So if anyone think that the comm tied to quantum is too high, why not tell them try to be an agent then.  Go do the RES exam, then PM me, I will find them a mentor in any agency of their choice.

For pte property transactions, OTP can be done directly at the law firm if sellers/buyers are not savvy, hence when a buyer is found, the next stop for buyers and sellers to go is straight to the law firm to sign. This opens up an avenue for PG to gain revenue from law firms advertising on their website, not just developers.

 

For hdb transactions, the first 4 pages of the standard otp from hdb already list out the procedure thoroughly. All PG needs to do is replicate that information on their website. With my model of allowing direct advertising from sellers, the site visits and business of PG will grow phenomenally.

 

Despite all that is mentioned above, PG can continue to pull in revenue from agents who would have to up their service standards to compete with the direct sellers. Agents can also contact the seller advertisers to match buyers to them for a com if they are a step faster than the sellers. To me this is healthy competition and should be encouraged. Any agent who is against is definitely not working in the interest of the housing market.

 

Great Idea. Have you tried writing to PG and see what they say?

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Icedbs