Dealers and Consumers-The continuing SAGA Part III

[Bacteria83]

Boss with big size brain:  if you need paper document to get a job in singapore I can help you.

 

A with kidney brain: Boss is this consider fake degree?

 

Boss: Use your kidney brain to think i'm helping you so shut your mouth and praise my name.

 

A with kidney brain: Boss your the man! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Galantspeedz]

Let's not get personal and keep it cordial...

 

I will try my best too lol

[Civicfighter]

 

Let me quote you something from the Penal Code.

 

Falsification of accounts

477A. Whoever, being a clerk, officer or servant, or employed or acting in the capacity of a clerk, officer or servant, wilfully and with intent to defraud destroys, alters, conceals, mutilates or falsifies any book, electronic record, paper, writing, valuable security or account which belongs to or is in the possession of his employer, or has been received by him for or on behalf of his employer, or wilfully and with intent to defraud makes or abets the making of any false entry in, or omits or alters or abets the omission or alteration of any material particular from or in any such book, electronic record, paper, writing, valuable security or account, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 10 years, or with fine, or with both.

If my interpretation based on my kidney brain is right, you and your colleagues are potentially falsifying accounts. This carries a maximum imprisonment of 10 years. The usual discount for good behaviour should apply. If you turn in yourself and bao toh your colleagues, then maybe also got lighter sentence. I may be wrong, so don't worry.

But you may also be infringing on other laws, because you are artificially circumventing the higher deposit rule by the MAS, and potentially inflate car prices if enough dealers do that. Good luck with that.

Thanks for your information from the penal code. We did not go against law under this penal code in anyway. We still follow the mas ruling max 50%/60% max loan. Max loan period of 5yrs. you are very contriting on what you say lei.. Want our auditors to pick up and write off the mark up then now telling us cannot do mark up as its against the law..

[Ingenius]

All problems started because there are no REGULATIONS governing used-car trading.

 

Used-car dealers are free to conducted their business using their own "SOP'.

 

I have to confess this....

 

Everytime I drove pass Automobile Megamart at Ubi, that building look like Sim Lim Square with many many Jover Chew waiting to chop carrot.

Are you joking ? Is the government suppose to regulate very single type of trading and business in Singapore ?? Can you come up with regulations without any loophole that may be exploited ? Oh man ..

[Latio2005A]

If you find its rubbish just let the sales person know lar or you can choose to do not pay.

Yes I will. I will not be party to propogate ADMIN FEE as a form of market practice.

[keanie]

wait till you go Turf City ...

Yep, I heard more cases in Turf City. I got my car including one of my family member from Automoblie Megamart more than a year ago. Did test drive then send car to AA for inspection. The report came back with a long list of things need to be done. d dealer sui sui send to his workshop for d necessary repairs. Ownership transfer done on d spot when final payment made.

 

Btw, my neighbour bought one from Turf City. He brought his mechanic along which he saw a car he liked. He bought one car at "as if" condition with $5k discount more than a year ago n until today problem free.

 

In short, we have to do our homework n find d right dealer.

Edited December 20, 2015 by keanie

[Hamburger]

I charge because Mark Ups (inflated selling price) is TAXABLE.

 

A car I posted 40K, buyer wanna loan 32k, the allowed loan is only 24k, in order to apply for 32K loan i will need to mark up the selling price to 53K, in actual fact the difference is 13k, i will be taxed on this 13k which i never ever gotten. Buyer gonna pay for my tax?

 

Are you gonna pay?

 

 

A name for the charges is just a name, no loan for me i can say penalty fee, sounds better?

you only mention more taxes to pay for your inflated amount.

 

What about the additional commission you will get?

 

Don't be a 90.5 FM. .......

[The_Bear]

Fraud? You make sure you stick to 60/50% loan.

 

So in other words, cannot afford? Go rent a car.

I agree with you on this one.

[Galantspeedz]

Fraud? You make sure you stick to 60/50% loan.

 

So in other words, cannot afford? Go rent a car.

Cannot afford then take public transport lar... why rent car...

 

What has fraud got to do with 50 or 60% loan?

 

I have never agreed to the abolishment of the 30% downpayment in the first place

 

Can see you getting hot under the collar and defensive...

Edited December 20, 2015 by Galantspeedz

[JCSL]

you only mention more taxes to pay for your inflated amount.

 

What about the additional commission you will get?

 

Don't be a 90.5 FM. .......

 

IN my case example:

 

Actual loan allowed is 24k, loan inflated to 32k, diff 8k. top max at 2% thats $160 comm only.

Inflated from 40k to 53k, 13k diff on taxes say (+/-)10% which is $1300approx, less $160, I have to lose 1k plus just for that mark up case?

 

Bear the risk yet make less? How fair?

 

Like i asked, should we just reject buyers without the ability to pay downpayment? Like you all walk away when d

 

[JCSL]

Cannot afford then take public transport lar... why rent car...

 

What has fraud got to do with 50 or 60% loan?

 

I have never agreed to the abolishment of the 30% downpayment in the first place

 

Can see you getting hot under the collar and defensive...

 

Bcos you mention "Mark Up" is fraud. So the next time you buy a car, pls stick to 50/60% loan then you will not cause the dealer to do fraud.

 

I am not getting hot under the collar, bcos you only think what you wanna think and believe what you wanna believe

[Blacksnow]

Admin fees is separated out because it's the sales person "extra" commission. If put in together with the car selling price, the sales person will not be able to earn this "extra" income. "Forget" to add in after signing on the sales agreement is not in my dictionary. I will tell my sales person to waive off if that's the case. Must say upfront whatever fees before signing in my earlier post.

then why AD no admin fee????

 

 

Fraud? You make sure you stick to 60/50% loan.

 

So in other words, cannot afford? Go rent a car.

Just to let you know I have sent this to LTA and MAS and my MP.

 

I told them to investigate.

[Latio2005A]

then why AD no admin fee????

 

 

 

Just to let you know I have sent this to LTA and MAS and my MP.

 

I told them to investigate.

There are dealers here trying very hard to obliguely inculcate tge Admin Fee culture. We must reject this notion.

 

Dealers can bulid in whatever fees, but the final price is the one we agree upon. No wayI am going to accept that there is going to be a fee above the agreed price. Lets reject it outright.

[Weez911]

From what I gathered here, it appears that some dealers are boosting the value of the cars, so that they can "help" buyers get higher loans. However, in doing so, they are paying higher tax as they are recognising higher revenue, hence they are seeking "reimbursements" from buyers in the form of "admin fees" to offset the higher tax.

 

There are a few instances of non-compliance with laws here. Firstly, the boosting of value of the cars is a form of creative accounting that doesn't reflect arms length transaction. This is against the Singapore Financial Reporting Standards.

 

Secondly, by creating fictitious account receivables and the subsequent write-off, these dealers can control their profitability and tax liabilities in different time periods. This is against both the Singapore Financial Reporting Standards and Income Tax Act.

 

Thirdly, they are circumventing the MAS Notice 642 Motor Vehicle Loan by making false declaration to the financial institutions with regards to the true value of the cars.

 

And as I have also pointed out earlier, the more serious non-compliance could be the Penal Code which carries jail term of up to 10 years.  I'm not sure if I have left out any laws which said dealers may be guilty of. I may be wrong though on all counts above.

 

I hope these dealers know the consequences of their actions.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Weez911

[Kusje]

From what I gathered here, it appears that some dealers are boosting the value of the cars, so that they can "help" buyers get higher loans. However, in doing so, they are paying higher tax as they are recognising higher revenue, hence they are seeking "reimbursements" from buyers in the form of "admin fees" to offset the higher tax.

 

There are a few instances of non-compliance with laws here. Firstly, the boosting of value of the cars is a form of creative accounting that doesn't reflect arms length transaction. This is against the Singapore Financial Reporting Standards.

 

Secondly, by creating fictitious account receivables and the subsequent write-off, these dealers can control their profitability and tax liabilities in different time periods. This is against both the Singapore Financial Reporting Standards and Income Tax Act.

 

Thirdly, they are circumventing the MAS Notice 642 Motor Vehicle Loan by making false declaration to the financial institutions with regards to the true value of the cars.

 

And as I have also pointed out earlier, the more serious non-compliance could be the Penal Code which carries jail term of up to 10 years.  I'm not sure if I have left out any laws which said dealers may be guilty of.

 

I hope these dealers know the consequences of their actions.

 

All these laws in place but there is no enforcement.

 

The whole Singapore (LTA/MAS included) knows of all these tricks but have done nothing to stop it.

 

I say carry on!

[Galantspeedz]

Thanks for your information from the penal code. We did not go against law under this penal code in anyway. We still follow the mas ruling max 50%/60% max loan. Max loan period of 5yrs. you are very contriting on what you say lei.. Want our auditors to pick up and write off the mark up then now telling us cannot do mark up as its against the law..

 

actually the 50%/60% requirement for downpayment is applicable to the bank right? Unless you are doing in house loan...

 

But the bank issue loan based on dealer contract... and if the contract is not what is stated.... it may be fraud?

[Galantspeedz]

Bcos you mention "Mark Up" is fraud. So the next time you buy a car, pls stick to 50/60% loan then you will not cause the dealer to do fraud.

 

I am not getting hot under the collar, bcos you only think what you wanna think and believe what you wanna believe

 

i am asking is it fraud? i never say it is fraud.... 

 

i guess it takes 2 hands to clap....even if a buyer requests higher loan... if it is not legal... the dealer has the choice not to do the sale...... if he is still willing to do the sale knowing it is not legal... he should still be liable... 

 

so it does not matter what the buyer ask but is the dealer is willing to do it right?

 

great that you are not hot under the collar.......  

[JCSL]

 

 

Just to let you know I have sent this to LTA and MAS and my MP.

 

I told them to investigate.

 

Pls do so. Make sure its on the National Newspaper again.