Electric MPVs From China - Who is going to be the Alphard killer?

[too204]

On 3/6/2025 at 10:56 AM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

Achieved my best-ever energy consumption last evening and this was with a full load of 4 pax and AC turned on for both front and rear cabins. 

For context, the claimed energy efficiency of the Denza D9 is 4.5km/kwh. 

In my drive last evening, which was 95% on highways from checkpoint to checkpoint, I managed to clock a personal best of 6.27 km/kwh which is almost 40% better than the claimed range of the Denza D9. 

In total, I drove 102.2km yesterday and used 15.45kwh of battery, which translates to a daily consumption figure of 6.61 km/kwh. Of course, not every drive on every other day will see these type of numbers but the D9 can quite safely do 480km on a full charge so something for potential D9 buyers to consider. 

Hope the other D9 owners or even other EV owners of these full-sized e-MPVs here can chip in with their best consumption numbers and how it was achieved! 

Just to share, I am also getting better energy consumption that the wltp spec, avg of 6km/kWh - mainly point A to point B drive.

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 3/24/2025 at 6:31 AM, Beanoyip said:

Those Denza owners, what made you choose the D9 over a Zeekr 009?

@Beanoyip

2 biggest hurdle are the pricing ($400k for a China BEV is quite challenging to stomach) and the insane road tax of >$6k/year basically renders any potential cost savings of driving an EV pointless. Most MPV drivers are also no racers thus the Z9's selling point of 0-100km/hr in 4.5 sec may not really appeal to this segment of buyers. 

Case-in-point: even with the last increase in COE (close to $4k), the 009 pricing actually decreased from $409k to $397k. This trend is similar to the Alphard which also dropped/held it's pricing when COE increased. 

When I rode in an Alphard to the airport recently, the driver told me that their entire fleet of limousine Alphards/Vellfires (non-hybrid) will be transiting to the D9 soon. It appears that the 'luxury MPV' segment is oversaturated now with too many choices and all are pretty solid contenders (the D9 & X9 & Mifa9) thus its even more difficult for the Z9 to fly off the shelves now. 

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 3/24/2025 at 11:46 AM, Annapurna said:

@Chipsahoy8919 You are right, the system told me my app is the latest version - V1.2.1.  Looks like I have to wait again. Btw, how much is the charging rate in Malaysia?  I am surprised it is not cheaper from the usual 98 petrol price.

@Annapurna When I used DC charging in Malaysia, it was at $1.33 rm per kwh or $0.42 sgd per kwh. If one has access to home charging, you are only paying $0.30kwh thus this is the weird scenario one finds yourself in when 'fueling up' in Malaysia for EVs. 

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 3/24/2025 at 6:51 PM, too204 said:

Just to share, I am also getting better energy consumption that the wltp spec, avg of 6km/kWh - mainly point A to point B drive.

@too204 That is quite a staggering achievement. No matter how hard I tried (Air con off etc) on the same routes, my consistent best was still at 5km/kwh. Please share any tips! 

[too204]

On 3/24/2025 at 8:07 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

@too204 That is quite a staggering achievement. No matter how hard I tried (Air con off etc) on the same routes, my consistent best was still at 5km/kwh. Please share any tips! 

Not sure if i am calculating it the right way, but I based it off this chart whixh shows the average consumption for the last 50km..so I'm getting 16.3kwh/100km which works out to be about 6.1km/kWh.

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 3/24/2025 at 10:03 PM, too204 said:

Not sure if i am calculating it the right way, but I based it off this chart whixh shows the average consumption for the last 50km..so I'm getting 16.3kwh/100km which works out to be about 6.1km/kWh.

@too204 Yes, this is one way of measuring it. Mine is closer to 20kwh/100km since Day 1. 

Another more 'accurate' way of measuring the kwh used per trip is to:

1. Make sure all doors remain closed at destination. 

2. Put into park mode. 

3. Power off the car. 

4. Wait for  few seconds for the instrument cluster to display the trip information (as shown in my pic in the previous post). Please note that all doors must remain closed if you want to see this page on the instrument cluster at the end of a trip. Once any door is opened, the instrument cluster will not display this page or it will flash to the default page once a door is opened. This silly programming certainly leaves plenty of room for improvements in the D9. When I watched Youtube videos of other BYD products (e.g. you can change the AC settings frm the instrument cluster in a BYD Seal), I still think we Denza owners are shortchanged with regards to the software and hardware integration. 

Can I ask how you managed to achieve this remarkable efficiency? What's your load on board, air con settings, tyre pressure and was it super light traffic with no stoppages (e.g. red light or bottleneck traffic)? As I 'believe' myself to be a very efficient driver, but I can never come close to the numbers you are getting? 

For your range, did you leave it in standard or dynamic? And based on this efficiency of 16.3kwh/100km, what is the total range displayed (therefore Trip A/B + remaining range)? 

Certainly makes for a very interesting case study! 

[too204]

@Chipsahoy8919 I set regen to high, and on motorways I travel below 100km/h (which I think helps efficiently alot as I heard that efficiency starts to drops above 80-90 km/h due to drag. Other than that, travel pattern is ard 50-80km a day (50% city and 50% highway). Aircon blower set to 2 and temperature 21 degree Celsius.

 

O a separate note, surprised that no one considering id.buzz haha. They recently dropped the price to below 300k (even as COE trend upwards) and their dealer magin is very thin now.

[too204]

On 3/25/2025 at 3:23 PM, too204 said:

@Chipsahoy8919 I set regen to high, and on motorways I travel below 100km/h (which I think helps efficiently alot as I heard that efficiency starts to drops above 80-90 km/h due to drag. Other than that, travel pattern is ard 50-80km a day (50% city and 50% highway). Aircon blower set to 2 and temperature 21 degree Celsius.

 

O a separate note, surprised that no one considering id.buzz haha. They recently dropped the price to below 300k (even as COE trend upwards) and their dealer magin is very thin now.

I followed the same steps as above. Travelled 25.6km using 3.6kwh..which translates to 7km/kWh..very impressive. For the entire journey, I kept around 80km/h on the highway.

[Annapurna]

I just checked my Energy consumption from the Info Cluster, it showed 16.7Kwh/100km before I went out for lunch.  Upon my return from lunch, about 20km travel with 4 passengers with both aircon auto at 23 degrees, seat ventilation ON and massage chairs on, the energy at end of trip was 17.9 kwh/100 km.  It was 705 highway and I was driving within speed limits.  Seems like the power consumption is quite good. 

Edited March 25 by Annapurna

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 3/25/2025 at 4:35 PM, Annapurna said:

I just checked my Energy consumption from the Info Cluster, it showed 16.7Kwh/100km before I went out for lunch.  Upon my return from lunch, about 20km travel with 4 passengers with both aircon auto at 23 degrees, seat ventilation ON and massage chairs on, the energy at end of trip was 17.9 kwh/100 km.  It was 705 highway and I was driving within speed limits.  Seems like the power consumption is quite good. 

@too204 & @Annapurna 

I must say both of you have very disciplined right foot. Thanks for the tip, time for me to curb some enthusiasm on the roads! 

What can be surmised is that from the primary data collected from real-world use, the actual efficiency is definitely much better than the claimed efficiency of 4.66km/kwh. Hopefully, this stays throughout the course of the car's lifespan as the efficiency may be better now due to our brand new batteries and hopefully, the famed BYD LFP self-made batteries does keep to its promised claimed charging cycle lifespan and the efficiency remains the same even in its later years!

[Jev]

On 3/25/2025 at 9:58 AM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

@too204 Yes, this is one way of measuring it. Mine is closer to 20kwh/100km since Day 1. 

Another more 'accurate' way of measuring the kwh used per trip is to:

1. Make sure all doors remain closed at destination. 

2. Put into park mode. 

3. Power off the car. 

4. Wait for  few seconds for the instrument cluster to display the trip information (as shown in my pic in the previous post). Please note that all doors must remain closed if you want to see this page on the instrument cluster at the end of a trip. Once any door is opened, the instrument cluster will not display this page or it will flash to the default page once a door is opened. This silly programming certainly leaves plenty of room for improvements in the D9. When I watched Youtube videos of other BYD products (e.g. you can change the AC settings frm the instrument cluster in a BYD Seal), I still think we Denza owners are shortchanged with regards to the software and hardware integration. 

Can I ask how you managed to achieve this remarkable efficiency? What's your load on board, air con settings, tyre pressure and was it super light traffic with no stoppages (e.g. red light or bottleneck traffic)? As I 'believe' myself to be a very efficient driver, but I can never come close to the numbers you are getting? 

For your range, did you leave it in standard or dynamic? And based on this efficiency of 16.3kwh/100km, what is the total range displayed (therefore Trip A/B + remaining range)? 

Certainly makes for a very interesting case study! 

Do you have your regen on highest setting?

 

I found I was getting around 20kwh/100km with regen set to low, but around 16-17kwh/100km with regen set to high. Ideally with regen on low the first bit of the brake pedal would just be the regen but seems not the case. It took me getting used to one pedal driving to get better efficiency.

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 3/26/2025 at 2:19 PM, Jev said:

Do you have your regen on highest setting?

 

I found I was getting around 20kwh/100km with regen set to low, but around 16-17kwh/100km with regen set to high. Ideally with regen on low the first bit of the brake pedal would just be the regen but seems not the case. It took me getting used to one pedal driving to get better efficiency.

@Jev Yes, I am as green as it can be: Regen set High, Drive mode set to Eco, even Air Con set to Eco mode as well for maximum efficiency. Alas with all the feedback here, I believe the only green setting I need to dial in is my right foot and the need to keep the vehicle at <80km/hr for the best efficiency! 

[steveting99]

On 3/26/2025 at 10:00 AM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

@too204 & @Annapurna 

I must say both of you have very disciplined right foot. Thanks for the tip, time for me to curb some enthusiasm on the roads! 

What can be surmised is that from the primary data collected from real-world use, the actual efficiency is definitely much better than the claimed efficiency of 4.66km/kwh. Hopefully, this stays throughout the course of the car's lifespan as the efficiency may be better now due to our brand new batteries and hopefully, the famed BYD LFP self-made batteries does keep to its promised claimed charging cycle lifespan and the efficiency remains the same even in its later years!

Based on BYD's blade battery datasheet (assuming its the same model that's used in the D9), the battery capacity on the D9 should retain over 95% capacity after 500 charge/discharge cycles. With 480kms of real world mileage on the 103kWhr battery, the D9 should be able to do 230,000kms and still see battery capacity above 95%.  

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 3/26/2025 at 4:30 PM, steveting99 said:

Based on BYD's blade battery datasheet (assuming its the same model that's used in the D9), the battery capacity on the D9 should retain over 95% capacity after 500 charge/discharge cycles. With 480kms of real world mileage on the 103kWhr battery, the D9 should be able to do 230,000kms and still see battery capacity above 95%.  

@steveting99 Thanks for the info, assuming 1 charge per week and 1 charge lasts 400km (very conservative numbers), it equates to 52 weeks and in 1 COE cycle, 520 charging cycles and 208,000km. 

Based on these figures, the D9 is poised to perform almost the same as day 1 in terms of its range in its COE cycle. Of course, all these are theoretical and hopefully, all of us (plus the forum) are still alive to share the real-world data 10 years on (or the D9's 2nd or 3rd owners). 

[Tohto]

Friend D9 PHEV in Shanghai. 

[steveting99]

On 3/26/2025 at 4:50 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

@steveting99 Thanks for the info, assuming 1 charge per week and 1 charge lasts 400km (very conservative numbers), it equates to 52 weeks and in 1 COE cycle, 520 charging cycles and 208,000km. 

Based on these figures, the D9 is poised to perform almost the same as day 1 in terms of its range in its COE cycle. Of course, all these are theoretical and hopefully, all of us (plus the forum) are still alive to share the real-world data 10 years on (or the D9's 2nd or 3rd owners). 

@Chipsahoy8919 the reason why I'm so confident on why BYD D9 will go the distance and last a long time is the comprehensive study carried out by researchers from Birmingham University, London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE), University of California San Diego, and the University of Bern, Switzerland who looked at 264 million test records from 2005 to 2022 covering 29.8 million vehicles in the UK. Results are shown in the illustration below:

The researchers found that BEV's reliability is increasing each year at a rapid pace - about 2x faster than ICE vehicles. So while the study ended in 2022, three years later and looking today in 2025, BEV manufacturers such as BYD with the D9 is making better vehicles than traditional legacy ICE auto makers. The reliability and longevity of BYD would now surpass that of the likes of Volkswagen, Mercedes Benz, Nissan and Toyota who are making equivalent MPVs.

Nature Energy study on BEV longevity vs. ICE vehicles in the UK is here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01698-1

 

[Llpl]

 

 

[Yvegeny]

Hi guys, came across this thread by chance.
I am a Denza D9 owner since Dec 24, and have actually created a facebook page for the D9 owners in Singapore. (couldnt quite find an interest page for the car, which was why i started the FB page)

Nothing formal, just a community page for owners to exchange tips, ideas and most importantly, which are the carparks in Singapore that our cars can enter😁.

Feel free to join/engage with the page. Looking forward to learning more from all the other owners!