ST Forum:NS:PRs Who Don't Serve'll Face Adverse Consequences

[Vulcann]

From ST Forum: http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/...ory_799326.html

 

NS: PRs who don't serve will face adverse consequences

Published on May 16, 2012

 

WE REFER to the commentary by Dr Leong Chan-Hoong ('Bridge the foreign-local gap with NS'; last Wednesday) and related letters ('Have alternative NS for new citizens, PRs' by Dr Harold Teng Siow Song, and 'No NS? Get new citizens, PRs to do community service' by Jack Lin in Forum Online; last Saturday) recently about national service (NS) for permanent residents (PRs).

 

NS-liable PRs who fail to register or enlist for national service will be treated as national service defaulters. PRs who renounce their PR status without serving national service will also face adverse consequences. Their failure to serve national service will be taken into account when they subsequently apply to study or work in Singapore, or when they try to have their PR status reinstated.

 

These adverse consequences will apply to the PRs, quoted by Dr Leong, who gave up their residency before being enlisted for national service.

 

Under the Enlistment Act, male PRs are liable for national service. First-generation PRs who are able to contribute to Singapore economically immediately upon the grant of PR status are administratively exempted from national service.

 

Second-generation PRs, who are sponsored by their parents for PR status and those granted PR status at a young age based on their potential to contribute to Singapore in the future, are required to serve national service and will be enlisted after age 18.

 

Therefore, it is incorrect for any PR who is serving or has served national service to claim that he volunteered for it. National service is mandatory for PRs, just as it is for Singaporeans.

 

Colonel Kenneth Liow

 

Director, Public Affairs

 

Mindef

[Vulcann]

NS-liable PRs who fail to register or enlist for national service will be treated as national service defaulters. PRs who renounce their PR status without serving national service will also face adverse consequences. Their failure to serve national service will be taken into account when they subsequently apply to study or work in Singapore, or when they try to have their PR status reinstated.

 

I know if Singaporeans siam NS and kena arrested, he will likely be charged, get fined and/or jailed. And upon release from the prison, he will then have to serve the full duration of the mandatory NS.

 

So for a eligible PR who is a NS defaulter renouncing his PRship, the so-called "adverse consequences" is that his defaulting "will be taken into account" if he subesquently wishes to study, work or apply to be PR again in Singapore.

 

Duh?

 

No mentioning that he will be arrested on sight or his name will be put into the INTERPOL's wanted list for a criminal offence or any other type of "adverse consequences" we normally associated them with such serious infringements.

 

Seriously if I am NS-liable PR, I will take it very lightly that NS is siam-able and at most do not go study, work or get PRship here. What else can they do to me?

 

[Watwheels]

Abolish NS altogether lah. Imagine you are an employer, you, your local & PR employees take turn go for ICT, how much of your business will be affected? I think only women are left to run the show.

 

Gahment want to attract foreigners to take up PR is to replace the aging work force. Ask them to do NS will scare them away coz unlike local's they have "Plan B", that is to go home or go other countries to seek opportunities. If foreign employer or investor have to do NS dan nobody will come invest. Maybe they still will but small investment.

 

I suggest abolish the NS and hire more mercenaries. Since we already have a contingent of gurka, why not an army, navy & airforce?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Watwheels

[SimonTan]

Adverse means he cannot reapply for PR lah.

I think still can visit Singapore and apply for work permit.

Singapore is very generous one.

 

[Happily1986]

I suggest abolish the NS and hire more mercenaries. Since we already have a contingent of gurka, why not an army, navy & airforce?

 

SAF Day and National Day Parade how? They sing to the Nepalese national anthem?

[JackRabbit]

I have a very good friend in Singapore. His dad is a Singaporean PR. My friend was born overseas, but lived in Singapore since a baby. He was also a Singapore PR. We studied in the same school until complete O levels. He then went back to his birth country to complete high school and do his Uni. Did not do NS at all. He worked in his birth country for a few years after graduating. His PR expired. He found another job, and was sent to Singapore (in the 90's) to work as an Expat. Nobody questioned him; the issue of NS did not even crop up. He is still working here, enjoying life as a high flyer expat, who enjoyed schooling and benefits of Singapore, as well as his home country - without doing a single day of NS or even registering or deferring from NS. He is my childhood friend, so definitely I won't sabo him. Now his kids, born in Singapore, have also received citizenship from his birth country as he is the father, and hold dual citizenship in Singapore. One son and one daughter. He said he will let his kids choose which citizenship to keep when they reach 21.

 

But my point is... there are many who fall through the cracks. The cracks are huge gaps. Who believes that Singapore government or Mindef is so effective at tracking MORE THAN 1 MILLION foreigners in Singapore to ensure that all eligible PRs do their NS?? You would be naive, if you are thinking so. Above is a real live case of someone who siam NS. I'm sure there are many many more.

Edited May 16, 2012 by JackRabbit

[Unidentified]

i fully support NS!

 

[Happily1986]

I have a very good friend in Singapore. His dad is a Singaporean PR. My friend was born overseas, but lived in Singapore since a baby. He was also a Singapore PR. We studied in the same school until complete O levels. He then went back to his birth country to complete high school and do his Uni. Did not do NS at all. He worked in his birth country for a few years after graduating. His PR expired. He found another job, and was sent to Singapore (in the 90's) to work as an Expat. Nobody questioned him; the issue of NS did not even crop up. He is still working here, enjoying life as a high flyer expat, who enjoyed schooling and benefits of Singapore, as well as his home country - without doing a single day of NS or even registering or deferring from NS. He said he will let his kids choose which citizenship to keep when they reach 21. He is my childhood friend, so definitely I won't sabo him. Now his kids, born in Singapore, have also received citizenship from his birth country as he is the father, and hold dual citizenship in Singapore. One son and one daughter.

 

But my point is... there are many who fall through the cracks. The cracks are huge gaps. Who believes that Singapore government or Mindef is so effective at tracking MORE THAN 1 MILLION foreigners in Singapore to ensure that all eligible PRs do their NS?? You would be naive, if you are thinking so. Above is a real live case of someone who siam NS. I'm sure there are many many more.

 

Setting rules and regulations is one thing, enforcement is quite another. The statement by Mindef just express the official stand of the Ministry and its prevailing attitude towards such individuals. However, this whole thing is very strange to me. When it comes to citizenship and applying for residency, everyone has to go through ICA so there and then, one could already be sussed out for so called defaulting NS, so as to speak. What could possibly explain for the examples who fell through the cracks and went pass undetected?

 

it is not as if we are talking about an enforcement scenario where the individuals are out at large and authorities are playing a hide and seek game with them. This is something i can't reconcile with my logic.

[Watwheels]

SAF Day and National Day Parade how? They sing to the Nepalese national anthem?

Still got regulars mah. There will still be ppl willing to join the regular force. SAF day is used for the president to comission the cadets to officers, you think I dunno meh?

 

National day participation can be for civilians only what. Is there a need to show or display our military might? I think only need the military manpower to do logistics.

[JackRabbit]

I think last time easily to siam, because the computer systems were not available and hard to track between units. Many locals could siam NS, with extended M.C. or some mild surgery, combat fit Pes A but still serve as 8-5 clerk for 2.5 years, but in actual keep changing unit for 2.5 years, not doing anything, almost forever on M.C.. Sekali reservist kenna combat conversion, then see doctor again. Nowadays, should be more difficult, but like some bros mentioned, for foreigners how to enforce penalty if they are abroad for a long long time and are citizens of a foreign country. Not that they don't want to make it fair, but I think it's more complicated than the colonel described.

 

Best is not to have too much hope, and give them too much benefits until they fulfill their PR obligations.

 

 

Lol... we all know how some people can become scientist for NS... what more if PR siam NS.

[Happily1986]

Still got regulars mah. There will still be ppl willing to join the regular force. SAF day is used for the president to comission the cadets to officers, you think I dunno meh?

 

National day participation can be for civilians only what. Is there a need to show or display our military might? I think only need the military manpower to do logistics.

 

huh i thought OCT commissioning parade is done under auspices of SAFT-MI OCS? SAF Day used as commissioning parade, you sure or not.

[Unidentified]

huh i thought OCT commissioning parade is done under auspices of SAFT-MI OCS? SAF Day used as commissioning parade, you sure or not.

 

obviously that guy is not from SAF.

maybe next he will say SAF day is a public holiday for all members of SAF.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Unidentified

[TVT]

But my point is... there are many who fall through the cracks. The cracks are huge gaps. Who believes that Singapore government or Mindef is so effective at tracking MORE THAN 1 MILLION foreigners in Singapore to ensure that all eligible PRs do their NS?? You would be naive, if you are thinking so. Above is a real live case of someone who siam NS. I'm sure there are many many more.

I agreed with you. There could be more. Govt only state their procedures, but when real case happens, they will review them case-by-case.

 

Usually these defaulters sneak back SG by working here, applying Employment pass and keep applying till ICA reject them....but this will be after a few years later.

 

While working here, some will make good their careers so if ICA don't renew their pass, their employers will fight for them. Or they marry a local woman and have a child register as Singapore citizen, if ICA kick them out, they just appeal to MP/govt based on family reason....

 

If govt is seriously to punish these defaulters, they should not allow them to come back to work here at all, even thou how talented they are. Only give them visitor pass for 30 days will do.

[Royho1979]

From ST Forum: http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/...ory_799326.html

 

NS: PRs who don't serve will face adverse consequences

Published on May 16, 2012

 

WE REFER to the commentary by Dr Leong Chan-Hoong ('Bridge the foreign-local gap with NS'; last Wednesday) and related letters ('Have alternative NS for new citizens, PRs' by Dr Harold Teng Siow Song, and 'No NS? Get new citizens, PRs to do community service' by Jack Lin in Forum Online; last Saturday) recently about national service (NS) for permanent residents (PRs).

 

NS-liable PRs who fail to register or enlist for national service will be treated as national service defaulters. PRs who renounce their PR status without serving national service will also face adverse consequences. Their failure to serve national service will be taken into account when they subsequently apply to study or work in Singapore, or when they try to have their PR status reinstated.

 

These adverse consequences will apply to the PRs, quoted by Dr Leong, who gave up their residency before being enlisted for national service.

 

Under the Enlistment Act, male PRs are liable for national service. First-generation PRs who are able to contribute to Singapore economically immediately upon the grant of PR status are administratively exempted from national service.

 

Second-generation PRs, who are sponsored by their parents for PR status and those granted PR status at a young age based on their potential to contribute to Singapore in the future, are required to serve national service and will be enlisted after age 18.

 

Therefore, it is incorrect for any PR who is serving or has served national service to claim that he volunteered for it. National service is mandatory for PRs, just as it is for Singaporeans.

 

Colonel Kenneth Liow

 

Director, Public Affairs

 

Mindef

 

Talk is cheap. Fact is as long as you are famous and powerful, the penalty of skipping NS is a paltry fine. Ask the pianist who was back here to perform a while back.. He would know.

 

[Vid]

I know if Singaporeans siam NS and kena arrested, he will likely be charged, get fined and/or jailed. And upon release from the prison, he will then have to serve the full duration of the mandatory NS.

 

So for a eligible PR who is a NS defaulter renouncing his PRship, the so-called "adverse consequences" is that his defaulting "will be taken into account" if he subesquently wishes to study, work or apply to be PR again in Singapore.

 

Duh?

 

No mentioning that he will be arrested on sight or his name will be put into the INTERPOL's wanted list for a criminal offence or any other type of "adverse consequences" we normally associated them with such serious infringements.

 

Seriously if I am NS-liable PR, I will take it very lightly that NS is siam-able and at most do not go study, work or get PRship here. What else can they do to me?

 

 

Arrested? You must be kidding. If it's some ah tiong, you think the gahmen dare to arrest him for defaulting on NS? There are political consequences on such actions, especially if the defaulter is some big fark with loads of $$$. Defaulting on NS is only a crime in Singapore. Nobody in the world gives a damn whether anyone serve NS in Singapore so to put on interpol's list is a joke and a waste of resources.

[Vid]

From ST Forum: http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/...ory_799326.html

 

NS: PRs who don't serve will face adverse consequences

Published on May 16, 2012

 

WE REFER to the commentary by Dr Leong Chan-Hoong ('Bridge the foreign-local gap with NS'; last Wednesday) and related letters ('Have alternative NS for new citizens, PRs' by Dr Harold Teng Siow Song, and 'No NS? Get new citizens, PRs to do community service' by Jack Lin in Forum Online; last Saturday) recently about national service (NS) for permanent residents (PRs).

 

NS-liable PRs who fail to register or enlist for national service will be treated as national service defaulters. PRs who renounce their PR status without serving national service will also face adverse consequences. Their failure to serve national service will be taken into account when they subsequently apply to study or work in Singapore, or when they try to have their PR status reinstated.

 

These adverse consequences will apply to the PRs, quoted by Dr Leong, who gave up their residency before being enlisted for national service.

 

Under the Enlistment Act, male PRs are liable for national service. First-generation PRs who are able to contribute to Singapore economically immediately upon the grant of PR status are administratively exempted from national service.

 

Second-generation PRs, who are sponsored by their parents for PR status and those granted PR status at a young age based on their potential to contribute to Singapore in the future, are required to serve national service and will be enlisted after age 18.

 

Therefore, it is incorrect for any PR who is serving or has served national service to claim that he volunteered for it. National service is mandatory for PRs, just as it is for Singaporeans.

 

Colonel Kenneth Liow

 

Director, Public Affairs

 

Mindef

 

COL Liow did not even address the questions asked in the forum letters about having alternative NS for those who became PR. He just copied and pasted the standard reply

[Tjkbeluga]

I have a very good friend in Singapore. His dad is a Singaporean PR. My friend was born overseas, but lived in Singapore since a baby. He was also a Singapore PR. We studied in the same school until complete O levels. He then went back to his birth country to complete high school and do his Uni. Did not do NS at all. He worked in his birth country for a few years after graduating. His PR expired. He found another job, and was sent to Singapore (in the 90's) to work as an Expat. Nobody questioned him; the issue of NS did not even crop up. He is still working here, enjoying life as a high flyer expat, who enjoyed schooling and benefits of Singapore, as well as his home country - without doing a single day of NS or even registering or deferring from NS. He is my childhood friend, so definitely I won't sabo him. Now his kids, born in Singapore, have also received citizenship from his birth country as he is the father, and hold dual citizenship in Singapore. One son and one daughter. He said he will let his kids choose which citizenship to keep when they reach 21.

 

But my point is... there are many who fall through the cracks. The cracks are huge gaps. Who believes that Singapore government or Mindef is so effective at tracking MORE THAN 1 MILLION foreigners in Singapore to ensure that all eligible PRs do their NS?? You would be naive, if you are thinking so. Above is a real live case of someone who siam NS. I'm sure there are many many more.

Please pao toh him....

[Vulcann]

IIRC when questioned in a parliamentary session sometime back, the then Defence Minister replied that they were seeing more second generation PRs doing NS nowadays but did not provide any statistics to back that up.

 

More means what?

 

From 2/year to 4/year? That's a respectable 100% increase leh!

 

But out of how many eligible - 100, 500 or 1,000?

 

The world wonders....

 

[rolleyes]