COE solutions??

[Angcheek]

banks lend the rich only.

 

if u poor, too bad..

 

speaking of which, im not eligible for study loan coz my guarantor is not earning enough.

 

but that same person can take a car loan

 

btw, the car loan is around the same as the study loan

 

 

Everyone should be given the chance to study or upgrade. Why the need for guarantor even in the

 

case of pte school !

 

Ridiculous policy. . Its similar to some past cases where Hospital refuse to accept patient because

 

he/she cannot pay ! Very disturbing truth .

 

 

 

[Kar_lover]

There was a time when people actually saved up money to buy things, In those times things are cheap, now things are expensive becos people leverage.

 

And there was a time when people actually wrote letters......in those days police man wear shorts....

[Kar_lover]

given that each car is ~4.5m..5 car length only a maximum of 25m distance..definitely not sufficient..10 car length is more safe and logical

 

The car in front also requires more or less the same distance to brake. The 25m (my bad) distance from the car in front is basically to cater for reaction time. If you start braking the moment the front car starts braking (assume 0.5-1 sec reaction time), there is no reason why you cannot brake in time.

[Kar_lover]

aiya the garment want to play the coe system let them.. but at least control the 2nd hand dealer .. they burst the price so high without any paper values in it also.. n now most car has gd promo that will make buyer to buy it other then changing a 2nd hand car(due to high coe gd promo alway come).. after 6mth no money pay or dont like they sell to dealer and lose maybe like few K n buy another new car.. if this is the way ..singapore car will alway be so much n even more if still nothing is done by garment.. those rich kids n FT will just keep buying n out bid everything ..they can do it like Hong kong.. car is cheap but the carpark will kill u.. how much u use how much it charge u .. car dont belong to the garment and yet we pay n let garment enjoy! road tax, erp, hdb carpark and coe lol? 10year later is either u scrap or buy it again from garment ... what rubbish..we should make all the 3mill plus singaporean take out CPF at 1 shot ... i think the garment will cry

 

Ur english powderful, i had to read at least few times to understand. Anyway, it's economics of demand and supply.

 

If 2009 Golf was 90k (COE 10K) but now 2013 Golf is 150K (COE 100K) you expect the 2009 golf to sell at $55k (approx 60% of $90k) when the new golf is almost triple that price?? There will be mad rush to buy the 3 yr old golf and as we all know high demand with low supply = upward pressure on price. Yes u're right there is no paper value. But it is YOUR choice. Nobody force you to buy.

 

When iphone 5S comes out, MDA must create a law that ppl who sign contract take phone and sell not allowed to sell above certain price lah. How about that?

 

 

 

 

[Kar_lover]

Lucky you are not a bank otherwise .

 

In the past there was a COE crash, the value of the cars dropped a lot. Many cars had negative equity, which means after sale proceeds still need to top up bank. Property is very different from cars. Cars lifespan is 10 years...sigh..I think ...nvm..U win k?

 

He is talking about COE loan. Nothing to do with car value. When market crashed, the balance value of the COE is still there. Bank just surrender the COE back to govt to get the balance money back.

 

But therein lies the problem, the car loan is under Bank A, COE loan is under Bank B. Bank B want to repossess the COE then the car how? Become COE-less? Hence at the end the COE and car loan must be from the same bank which brings us back to square one.

[Kar_lover]

why even a foreigner can see this while some local singaporeans cannot?

 

 

That's why we need foreigner lor....locals too short sighted. Only know how to complain and blame govt for everything....

[Vextan]

Ur english powderful, i had to read at least few times to understand. Anyway, it's economics of demand and supply.

 

If 2009 Golf was 90k (COE 10K) but now 2013 Golf is 150K (COE 100K) you expect the 2009 golf to sell at $55k (approx 60% of $90k) when the new golf is almost triple that price?? There will be mad rush to buy the 3 yr old golf and as we all know high demand with low supply = upward pressure on price. Yes u're right there is no paper value. But it is YOUR choice. Nobody force you to buy.

 

When iphone 5S comes out, MDA must create a law that ppl who sign contract take phone and sell not allowed to sell above certain price lah. How about that?

*like*

[Carnoob]

For purchasing new cars, you would have signed with the SE at say $100k, current COE at $69k for 3 or 6 COE bids, the dealer in order to secure the biz would hve to bid at above current COE for a guarantee COE. Let say, 1st bid successful COE up to $71k, you cannot withdraw from the deal right? The dealer would not adjust the car price too much but then the next car buyer come to buy the car at the same price of $100k the COE is already at $71k

 

So the car dealer who needs to close the deal would then bid the COE higher than $71k, resulting in the higher COE but we are looking at the car buyers only?

 

If you leave it to the car buyer, they would have no obligation to buy a car if they can't get COE. So back to the scenario, you go in bid for COE with no contract, if COE passed your threshold you would not bid anymore. For dealers, they had no choice but to bid high because they had collected deposit and unsuccessful bids will result in lost of biz. So true, with less COE the price will shoot up when the car dealers are holding on to the demand. But partially true that car buyers are the one to push up the price.

 

Since MAS are tightening on loans, it would be a good chance to introduce COE + Car loans and like the HDB do a evaluation on the eligible maximum loan quantum for each section based on current Cat classification, creates more job opportunity for financial planners or consultants. Once done, car buyer will know the limit he can apply for COE bid and Car loan through the same bank.

 

And for selling of cars, COE Cat A is registered under the same owner just like the car so I don't see it as an issue to sell it away as an entity. If you are selling away to upgrade, then do a loan evaluation again if you need to take loan. For selling old car to upgrade, it would be more of personal desire so whether you are successful to get new COE I would only say good luck to you.

 

For second hand car buyers / dealers, it would have no impact on them.

 

With the reduction in COE quota, we are looking at how to prevent prices from going sky high without control but to fulfill personal desires I think it's far from being true (maybe to some who says include occupation in COE system)... Don't forget inflation includes COE premiums so we are "ballooning" inflation rate as well if we don't start to regulate COE premium.

 

At the end of the day, the resolution will be the one to have accomplished: -

 

1. Controlling car population

2. Giving everyone an equal chance of owning a car

3. Clearing doubts that COE premiums are a money-making venture by Gov

 

Yes it is OUR choice between Expensive Cars or Unreliable Public Transport, lose-lose situation. Yup, we should blame ourselves instead of Gov because we are the ones to elect them. We empowered them to implement COE system, privatized Public Transport. And when we feedback, we become a group of ungrateful bunch of locals who are self centered. Well, I'm awaken have you?

[Kar_lover]

Since MAS are tightening on loans, it would be a good chance to introduce COE + Car loans and like the HDB do a evaluation on the eligible maximum loan quantum for each section based on current Cat classification, creates more job opportunity for financial planners or consultants. Once done, car buyer will know the limit he can apply for COE bid and Car loan through the same bank.

 

And for selling of cars, COE Cat A is registered under the same owner just like the car so I don't see it as an issue to sell it away as an entity. If you are selling away to upgrade, then do a loan evaluation again if you need to take loan. For selling old car to upgrade, it would be more of personal desire so whether you are successful to get new COE I would only say good luck to you.

 

For second hand car buyers / dealers, it would have no impact on them.

 

With the reduction in COE quota, we are looking at how to prevent prices from going sky high without control but to fulfill personal desires I think it's far from being true (maybe to some who says include occupation in COE system)... Don't forget inflation includes COE premiums so we are "ballooning" inflation rate as well if we don't start to regulate COE premium.

 

At the end of the day, the resolution will be the one to have accomplished: -

 

1. Controlling car population

2. Giving everyone an equal chance of owning a car

3. Clearing doubts that COE premiums are a money-making venture by Gov

 

Yes it is OUR choice between Expensive Cars or Unreliable Public Transport, lose-lose situation. Yup, we should blame ourselves instead of Gov because we are the ones to elect them. We empowered them to implement COE system, privatized Public Transport. And when we feedback, we become a group of ungrateful bunch of locals who are self centered. Well, I'm awaken have you?

 

Don't compare car and housing. Housing is essential, car is not. Govt has an obligation to ensure basic NECESSITIES are met. Other than that they also trying to prevent/minimise property bubble bursting NOT so much because of the individual persons but the larger fallout of the bursting on the economy as a whole.

 

As for your 3 resolutions, everyone DOES have an equal opportunity to own a car. Did they PREVENT or DISCRIMINATE anyone from oning one? If they were to say, PR have to pay double the COE, now that would be an unequal opportunity. Right now, everyone is on level playing field. Just that some are richer and some are less so. That is NOT unequal oppotunity. It's the same at work. An equal opportunity employer means everyone will be treated without prejudice. So those who work hard get ahead those who are lazy don't. So likewise those who able to earn enough can buy car, those who don't, well, don't.

 

As for it being a money making venture, well, you might as well say GST, Stamp duty, etc etc are all money making ventures right? These pollicies are generally how govt redistributes national income. Since we generally agree that those who are better off can buy cars, therefore these same better off people will pay COEs. This revenue then goes to helping those less well off. Get it? Same as GST, rich people buy Rolex pay high GST, not so rich people buy pasar malam watch don't even pay GST. So the revenue from GST will go towards the not so rich in the form of GST rebate, etc. etc. This is the modern day govt run Robin Hood programme.

 

I didn't say blame yourselves. I saw live with your means and make your own choices. Some people don't have cars but spend a few thousand every years going for holidays. I have a car but i stay in singapore everyday. Maybe at most go malaysia. Stop having the "entitlement mentality". Work for what you want. Just like more than half of Singaporeans can't afford to buy a condo yet others have multiple condos. So should govt force condos to be more affodable so that, in your words, everyone have an equal opportunity to own a condo??

 

Please don't be delusional that you have woken anybody up. I think you probably need to wake up first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vextan]

Very well and rightly said.

[Civicblade]

High prices of COE is a good thing for majority of Singaporeans in the low and middle-income if the tax dollars are utilized to improve the reach and quality of public transport and keep the cost to commuters down.

 

If you are a heartlander and in the middle to low income group, ask the people around you. How many of the people you know really cares about the COE price? No, they don't, most care about the frequency and punctuality of buses and MRT trains, their cleanliness and the cost of fares. Maybe the occasional thought on the availability and cost of taxi rides.

 

A democratic government is voted into power through by the majority. All grouses on the high COE prices isn't going to hurt the incumbent's prospect in the coming general elections. Just listen to the Transport Minister's reply on Thursday regarding the high COE price, he doesn't care and he is not going to change the system. His focus is on public transportation system right now, that is where the votes are.

[BMWX5]

High prices of COE is a good thing for majority of Singaporeans in the low and middle-income if the tax dollars are utilized to improve the reach and quality of public transport and keep the cost to commuters down.

 

If you are a heartlander and in the middle to low income group, ask the people around you. How many of the people you know really cares about the COE price? No, they don't, most care about the frequency and punctuality of buses and MRT trains, their cleanliness and the cost of fares. Maybe the occasional thought on the availability and cost of taxi rides.

 

A democratic government is voted into power through by the majority. All grouses on the high COE prices isn't going to hurt the incumbent's prospect in the coming general elections. Just listen to the Transport Minister's reply on Thursday regarding the high COE price, he doesn't care and he is not going to change the system. His focus is on public transportation system right now, that is where the votes are.

You makes a good point. But then again I wouldn't really know but sounds like good sense.

[Hi_torq]

Car is for rich and planes are for super rich :)

 

We should look at the market - the supply and demand theory. The COE is going up because the supply is going down. Whatever happens, if supply is going to go further down, the cost will go up (COE or no COE - there may be a black market). If items are based on price, then it will always favour rich (COE, tax, ERP etc etc) whether one likes it or not. Imagine if govt just limit the quota to only 10 cars. What will happen to COE? So COE is driven by people wishing (and can afford) to own a car desperately. Rich will always have advantage, whatever the quota (10 cars or 10,000 cars).

 

Govt. can bring policies to a level playing field. A low COE and low cost in 2006~2009 has made everybody believe that car is a necessity (COE was very high around 1997). Earlier, less population, good public transport (relative to population), cheaper taxi, and expensive car price created a situation where people didn't think about owning cars. People who think that ERP to be increase believe that they won't be driving. Once they get hold of a car, they will again curse the expensive ERP (Ask people around).

 

All said, I believe that basic COE is outdated, if not wrong altogether.

 

If we look at the types of cars being sold, the highest are the BM and Mercs for last year. This shows that what kind of people are buying the cars. The small, fuel efficient, economical cars have been driven out of the market.

 

My suggestion are:

 

- There should be tax directly related to the value of the car (and fuel economy, pollution factor etc). A cary having a value of $10,000 beinf less polluting (more fuel efficient), can have a tax of of say 40K + 20K. Total value 70K. Another car of 40K and same pollution rating can have a tax of 160K + 20K. Total value 220K. Now people can bid for COE, which car they want. Rich (as general) tries to differentiate themselves can go for luxry cars. General public can go for basic car. However, the price will still fluctuate with supply and demand but fluctuation will be less as competition will limit to each category (Except rich want to buy basic car for their maids - )

 

- Improve the public transport. This will bring down the demand. Taxi can be made cheaper (and easily availabe), people may use taxi.

 

- Improve motorcycle safety (promote motorcyle use). They occupy far lesser road and parking space than cars. Most of the people are driving alone in the car to their work and back.

 

- Even cycling can be promoted. This can reduce traffic on road.

 

Just think, everybody needs a watch, but how much people are paying for basic and classic watches. Same goes for phones.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Hi_torq

[Orange1971]

In Singapore, the taxes high income earners pay is comparative low compare to other countries, COE is one of the instrument serving two functions, one is to regulate the car population, the other being collect revenue from high income earners.

[Hi_torq]

Civicblade and Kar_lover,

 

You are so right

[Maseratigood]

That's why we need foreigner lor....locals too short sighted. Only know how to complain and blame govt for everything....

As there are also legitimate complaints, hope there are less sweeping statements like yours. No offence intented.

[Aventador]

2. Giving everyone an equal chance of owning a car

 

Well, I'm awaken have you?

 

Are you living in Disneyland?

 

There is no place in the world that everyone has an equal chance of owning a car. Income inequality exists everywhere.

 

In fact philosophically, there is nothing that exists, that everyone has an equal chance of getting. Not even Death. (you are more likely to die in some places)

 

Btw there is no such sentence as "I'm awaken"

 

[Mllcg]

Are you living in Disneyland?

 

There is no place in the world that everyone has an equal chance of owning a car. Income inequality exists everywhere.

 

In fact philosophically, there is nothing that exists, that everyone has an equal chance of getting. Not even Death. (you are more likely to die in some places)

 

Btw there is no such sentence as "I'm awaken"

 

there is...

 

there are cars that costs <3k for the lower bracket.

 

and theres your usual supercars.

 

but over here, even the cheapest car is 5 digit.

 

everyone still has equal chance to own a car weather u earn 1k/mth or 100k/mth.

 

but here u cant own a car with 1k/mth salary.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Mllcg