Subaru Levorg

[Muser]

Anybody have complains about the cvt? Im driving a civic with 5AT and kinda worried about CVT performance. And may i know which showroom have levorg for test drive and which showroom SE to avoid?

I love the lineartronic CVT in my Legacy, which is the same sort used in the Levorg. I don't have a single complaint.

 

It's a far cry from the Honda Jazz CVT, which was whiny and rubbery, and put me off CVTs until now.

 

Some people who haven't actually tried the lineartronic CVT say that it's silly for Subaru to simulate gear ratios, which defeats the point of a CVT's infinite variability and consequent efficiency.

 

But I've found that my CVT doesn't rigidly simulate gears. It actually combines traditional CVT variable ratios with simulated ratios. I know that's a bit abstract so let me give two examples:

 

1) When I sometimes accelerate hard from a stop, or at low speed, the CVT doesn't bother to rev through a few simulated gears, but instead holds it at an efficient rpm and varies the ratios to get you up to speed, before resuming the simulated gears. This is closer to traditional CVT behaviour, and I think it makes sense and does a great job of maximising low-mid torque.

 

2) On expressways, when I'm at 90km/h, engine's at 2k rpm in auto mode. But this isn't actually one of the six simulated gear ratios available. None of them lets you do 90km/h at 2k rpm. Using the paddle shifters to move to sixth gear drops me to 1.5k rpm, and shifting to fifth gear pushes me above 2k rpm. So it seems that even when cruising at a constant speed, the CVT is varying its ratios to optimise power and FC. I think that's pretty sophisticated.

 

So I feel I've gotten the best of both worlds. Sweetening the CVT is the paddle shifters that make it easy to engine brake, and the S/I modes that switch throttle maps and CVT shifting behaviour.

 

I think I'm talking too much. No substitute for a test drive. But I caution you to only go for a test drive with a SE you're comfortable sticking with. Because you won't be able to change SEs. If the SE doesn't make you feel completely comfortable, better don't test drive, and go back another day to talk to a different SE.

 

As for showrooms, if you read the reviews, you'll find that people say that Leng Kee is much better, with more attentive staff (even though SEs rotate between the showrooms), and that's been my experience too. I only went to the Toa Payoh one because I work nearby so it's really conveniently located for me. The only real advantage of Toa Payoh is that's where the spare parts department is, so you can swing by and find out what accessories, special parts and bodykits are available for a particular model.

[The_mark]

I agree that Subaru's CVT is nothing alike Honda's CVT. Drove my sis's Honda fit quite regularly years back, and one big thing I noticed about Honda's CVT is that there will be a sudden pull back (like an engine brake) when you try to roll your car slowly to a red light. And supposedly the way to overcome that is to tap your accelerator slightly to prevent it.

 

Subaru's CVT, on the other hand, is smooth, and you don't really feel the gear change. There is little drag even after you take your foot off the accelerator, almost akin putting your car in neutral. I guess that this is probably how they try to save on that little bit of petrol.

 

Just go for a test drive. I was sold when I test drove it a month back (This car was never on my shortlist by the way. Just test drove it for fun).

 

And now one month later, I'm a proud owner of the Levorg. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by The_mark

[Muser]

I agree that Subaru's CVT is nothing alike Honda's CVT. Drove my sis's Honda fit quite regularly years back, and one big thing I noticed about Honda's CVT is that there will be a sudden pull back (like an engine brake) when you try to roll your car slowly to a red light. And supposedly the way to overcome that is to tap your accelerator slightly to prevent it.

 

Subaru's CVT, on the other hand, is smooth, and you don't really feel the gear change. There is little drag even after you take your foot off the accelerator, almost akin putting your car in neutral. I guess that this is probably how they try to save on that little bit of petrol.

 

Just go for a test drive. I was sold when I test drove it a month back (This car was never on my shortlist by the way. Just test drove it for fun).

 

And now one month later, I'm a proud owner of the Levorg.

I was sold on the Legacy by the test-drive too, and likewise it wasn't on my original shortlist. That says something about the Subaru driving experience.

 

On my Legacy's CVT, I've found that engine braking in auto mode does occur in S mode, although it's absent in I mode. Like you speculated it's probably a FC versus pure performance issues. Do you find the same difference between I and S modes in your Levorg?

[The_mark]

Haven't tried S mode yet as I just collected my car last week. Will try later and see if I observe the same.

How's your FC by the way?

[Muser]

Haven't tried S mode yet as I just collected my car last week. Will try later and see if I observe the same.

How's your FC by the way?

Although our cars are actually relatively similar in weight, our FC will probably be quite different since the Levorg is 1.6T whereas the Legacy is 2.5NA. Plus I've been deliberately varying rpms and speed until I finished the break-in period (just past 1,600km today), as specified in my user manual. I deliberately slowed down, sped up and, once warmed up, tried to hit 4k rpm at least several times a day, and used engine braking frequently.

 

But FWIW, I average 12km/l (8.3-8.4l/100km) when doing 90% highway, but drop to 9km/l (11l/100km) when mostly off the highway. Not great, but it's been deliberate, so I'm looking forward to it improving once I start chilling out a bit.

[Pocus]

I was sold on the Legacy by the test-drive too, and likewise it wasn't on my original shortlist. That says something about the Subaru driving experience.

 

On my Legacy's CVT, I've found that engine braking in auto mode does occur in S mode, although it's absent in I mode. Like you speculated it's probably a FC versus pure performance issues. Do you find the same difference between I and S modes in your Levorg?

Bro, S mode is quite similar to conventional AT overdrive mode. The virtual gear ratios are shortened hence the idle rev is higher and you although you feel the engine more lively you also feelthe "engine brake" when slowing down.

 

Theoretically FC should suffer in S mode but for our urban traffic some bros reported getting better FC if you drive decently in S mode. Esp if its mid distance and includes expressways.

[Muser]

Bro, S mode is quite similar to conventional AT overdrive mode. The virtual gear ratios are shortened hence the idle rev is higher and you although you feel the engine more lively you also feelthe "engine brake" when slowing down.

 

Theoretically FC should suffer in S mode but for our urban traffic some bros reported getting better FC if you drive decently in S mode. Esp if its mid distance and includes expressways.

Thanks for the info, bro! I didn't know that. How did you find this out? It doesn't seem like the 5th or 6th ratios have been shortened though because I'm achieving same speed at same revs on highways, but it's entirely possible that the lower ratios have been shortened, in addition to changing the throttle curves.

 

I do think that S mode shouldn't necessarily ruin FC if you have self control. Problem is maintaining self control. Personally, I find being able to step more lightly during traffic makes for a smoother commute, especially for passengers. Haven't had a chance to compare FC between the modes yet. A few weeks ago, I drove mostly in I mode. Now I drive almost exclusively in S mode. I'm going to vary it over the next few weeks to explore the differences back to back.

[jg2000]

Thanks for the info, bro! I didn't know that. How did you find this out? It doesn't seem like the 5th or 6th ratios have been shortened though because I'm achieving same speed at same revs on highways, but it's entirely possible that the lower ratios have been shortened, in addition to changing the throttle curves.

 

I do think that S mode shouldn't necessarily ruin FC if you have self control. Problem is maintaining self control. Personally, I find being able to step more lightly during traffic makes for a smoother commute, especially for passengers. Haven't had a chance to compare FC between the modes yet. A few weeks ago, I drove mostly in I mode. Now I drive almost exclusively in S mode. I'm going to vary it over the next few weeks to explore the differences back to back.

 

For CVTs, ideally the revs are meant to stay the same to give the most optimal rev point no matter what gear you are in.

I always thought the different between "I" and "S" is that

"I" aims for fuel economy and so goes into higher gear and lowering the revs to an economical fuel-sipping level whenever possible (e.g. whenever you reach cruising speed).

"S" aims for power and so aims to keep the revs higher at where max power-torque is available.

"S" also to provide some pseudo-gear shifts to make it seem more like an AT gear box.

[Muser]

For CVTs, ideally the revs are meant to stay the same to give the most optimal rev point no matter what gear you are in.

I always thought the different between "I" and "S" is that

"I" aims for fuel economy and so goes into higher gear and lowering the revs to an economical fuel-sipping level whenever possible (e.g. whenever you reach cruising speed).

"S" aims for power and so aims to keep the revs higher at where max power-torque is available.

"S" also to provide some pseudo-gear shifts to make it seem more like an AT gear box.

There are definitely virtual ratios in both I and S modes. Some traditional CVT ratio variability seems to also be present in both modes. Whether or not the virtual ratios are identical in both modes isn't yet clear. S mode does delay shifts to let the revs build, but that doesn't mean the actual ratios are different and they don't seem different to me, at least in my Legacy.

[Civicblade]

For my legacy 2.5i, in I mode, there engine revs more easily (engine revs goes up higher with the same throttle input as S mode). There is a feeling of "slip" between the engine and the drive train.

 

I kind of feel that it is the I mode that is trying to simulate gear shifts of a conventional gearbox.

 

In S mode, the engine feels more connected to the drive train and the engine rpm does not go up and much with the same throttle input. The car accelerate quicker but with lower rpm compared to I mode.

[7hm]

New Levorg in my neighborhood.

[The_mark]

I kind of agree that in slow moving urban traffic, 'S' mode seem to be more suited. For my case, I am quite light on the throttle. When I am on 'I' mode in slow moving traffic, the car seem to be confused whether to maintain the low rpm or to down shift. 'S' mode on the other hand keeps the engine engaged, and hence better response to close the gap in slow moving traffic. I will switch back to 'I' once I hit a smooth stretch of road.

 

 

Bro, S mode is quite similar to conventional AT overdrive mode. The virtual gear ratios are shortened hence the idle rev is higher and you although you feel the engine more lively you also feelthe "engine brake" when slowing down.

Theoretically FC should suffer in S mode but for our urban traffic some bros reported getting better FC if you drive decently in S mode. Esp if its mid distance and includes expressways.

 

[teomingern]

I kind of agree that in slow moving urban traffic, 'S' mode seem to be more suited. For my case, I am quite light on the throttle. When I am on 'I' mode in slow moving traffic, the car seem to be confused whether to maintain the low rpm or to down shift. 'S' mode on the other hand keeps the engine engaged, and hence better response to close the gap in slow moving traffic. I will switch back to 'I' once I hit a smooth stretch of road.

Hmmm... let me try that on my Sonata when I go to work tomorrow... sounds reasonable.

[Civicblade]

Hmmm... let me try that on my Sonata when I go to work tomorrow... sounds reasonable.

 

Does the Sonata comes with Subaru's CVT?

 

If I am not wrong, the Sonata comes with conventional 6 speed auto. A conventional 6 speed auto has 6 fixed ratios and you will not get the sensation of car picking up speed while the RPM is constant or going up rather slowly. 

[teomingern]

Does the Sonata comes with Subaru's CVT?

 

If I am not wrong, the Sonata comes with conventional 6 speed auto. A conventional 6 speed auto has 6 fixed ratios and you will not get the sensation of car picking up speed while the RPM is constant or going up rather slowly. 

 

Oh no... what I meant was using the 'Sports' mode in traffic to have better pick-up and stay in the lower gears for a shorter time for better fuel consumption.

[teeha]

just went for a test drive of the levorg and i noticed 2 things. throttle response in I or S modes are a tad slow.(70% throttle and 1sec later car gets moving). Bodyroll is lesser than my civic on coilovers. Really like it except for the slow throttle response

[Pocus]

Oh no... what I meant was using the 'Sports' mode in traffic to have better pick-up and stay in the lower gears for a shorter time for better fuel consumption.

It will not work for your case since uiur car is not even a subaru.

 

The s mode I spoke is specific to subaru's cvt and s-drive mode in Subaru models and not as a general observation.

just went for a test drive of the levorg and i noticed 2 things. throttle response in I or S modes are a tad slow.(70% throttle and 1sec later car gets moving). Bodyroll is lesser than my civic on coilovers. Really like it except for the slow throttle response

The slow throttle response should be due to the behaviour of CVT. Due to its dynamic gearing Its always off to a slow start but picks up after 40kmh. That's why you dont feel the "surge" even though the speedo displays it to be faster..

 

If you are looking for peppy response can avoid all cvt cars...lol

[mrhan1982]

just went for a test drive of the levorg and i noticed 2 things. throttle response in I or S modes are a tad slow.(70% throttle and 1sec later car gets moving). Bodyroll is lesser than my civic on coilovers. Really like it except for the slow throttle response

The twin scroll turbo boxer 1.6L response can't be slower than the civic unless it's a type r. U Wun feel the initial pick up like the old civic 5 speed auto, but do look at the speedo. U should be picking up speed fairly quickly. The Subaru cvt is just Super smooth and responsive. I own the fd1 before and also drive the fd2 before. Both are slow in the sense that Low end torque is bad, gotta really step down to increase the revs for it to pick up decently especially accelerating from stop. However the entire feel of the transmission and engine makes it feel like a sporty car.

 

I believe the levorg should be more than quick enough for spore roads. Anything quicker will be a bit over powered for our local traffic. Levorg owners probably feel the pain to be driving behind cars with na engines.

It will not work for your case since uiur car is not even a subaru.

 

The s mode I spoke is specific to subaru's cvt and s-drive mode in Subaru models and not as a general observation.

The slow throttle response should be due to the behaviour of CVT. Due to its dynamic gearing Its always off to a slow start but picks up after 40kmh. That's why you dont feel the "surge" even though the speedo displays it to be faster..

 

If you are looking for peppy response can avoid all cvt cars...lol

Peppy response doesn't equate to quick response. My first car, a Vios has a very peppy throttle but it's no where near fast. Edited July 3, 2016 by mrhan1982