Military talk thread

[Ake109]

 

[thumbsup]

 

Very sound analysis and makes perfect sense.

 

In my romanticised world, it would be a super interesting scenario if one of the two IJN's superbattleships goes against the fast Iowas to see which side comes up victorious.

 

Pure muscle versus pure muscle.

 

Manny could probably can run circles around Iron Mike, jabbing the latter here & there, irritating the helluva the hot-tempered man. But if Tyson were to lob one of his legendary earth-shattering punch onto the welterweight Manny, it may ruin the Filipino's day or even his life.

 

But imagine two or even three Mannys against Mike Tyson...well you get the picture.

 

Aint no joke BBs lobbed car-sized shells against one another those days.

 

Except that Iowa hitting Yamato isn't like Manny hitting Tyson. It would be closer to Holyfield hitting Tyson. The 16 inch superheavy shell which Iowa had was tougher than 16 vs 18.1 would suggest.

 

Of course in a real war situation, a single lucky 18.1 inch hit could do wonders if it hit at the right angle and spot. But those are long long odds.

[Ake109]

And of course the Iowa 16/50 could fire the W23 shell later on. That one shell could hit with more power than Yamato and Musashi's combined magazines.

[Vulcann]

For those who have absolutely no idea what is a Yamato- nor a Iowa-class battleship in WWII:

 

[Vulcann]

And a Iowa-class BB's 16-inch gun mount:

 

 

(source: "Iowa 16 inch Gun-EN" by original by Voytek S, labels and pointer line fixes by Jeff Dahl - Own work. Licensed under GFDL via Wikimedia Commons - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Iowa_16_inch_Gun-EN.svg#mediaviewer/File:Iowa_16_inch_Gun-EN.svg)

 

 

And that of a Yamato's 18.1-inch gun turret:

 

That of a 16-inch shell size:

 

[Ake109]

Many people think when they read that say a battleship has 16 inches of armor, that it is like a tank, armored all over so that shells will bounce off it from everywhere.

 

In reality, the armored belt covers only a very small area compared to the overall surface. Mainly the machinery, barbettes and magazines. In the diagram of Yamato above, you can see where the scuttles (portholes) on the hull are, well those areas are NOT covered by the main armored belt.

 

Majority of the hull is just deck plating at most 1-2 inches thick in some areas. In her last fight, strafing runs by Hellcats killed many of the light AA crews as they were rather exposed. Even if the main belt was totally intact, if you lob enough small shells (say destroyer or light cruiser 5 to 6 inch shells)onto the superstructure and ends, even a mighty battleship like Yamato will be severely mangled even though the main battery still functions (might not hit much though, since the directors will be likely destroyed).

 

If you strafed a battleships hull with 20mm fighter guns, you wont sink it, but you can actually let in some seawater.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Ake109

[Vulcann]

One of the best drawn 大和号 BB drawings:

 

[Vulcann]

Many people think when they read that say a battleship has 16 inches of armor, that it is like a tank, armored all over so that shells will bounce off it from everywhere.

 

In reality, the armored belt covers only a very small area compared to the overall surface. Mainly the machinery, barbettes and magazines. In the diagram of Yamato above, you can see where the scuttles (portholes) on the hull are, well those areas are NOT covered by the main armored belt.

 

Majority of the hull is just deck plating at most 1-2 inches thick in some areas. In her last fight, strafing runs by Hellcats killed many of the light AA crews as they were rather exposed. Even if the main belt was totally intact, if you lob enough small shells (say destroyer or light cruiser 5 to 6 inch shells)onto the superstructure and ends, even a mighty battleship like Yamato will be severely mangled even though the main battery still functions (might not hit much though, since the directors will be likely destroyed).

 

If you strafed a battleships hull with 20mm fighter guns, you wont sink it, but you can actually let in some seawater.

 

Agree. Most of the BB's armour was aligned along the sides of the hull to protect against torpedoes & fire from enemies' main guns.

 

With the arrival of airplanes attacking from above with bombs, the main deck which was relatively weak compared to the rest of the ship became the Achilles' heel. Bombs penetrating the armoured decks often always resulted in the most damage.

[Vega]

not sure if you guys caught this not so new news.

 

http://www.janes.com/article/42235/singapore-quietly-expanding-f-15-fleet

Singapore quietly expanding F-15 fleet

 

 

[macrosszero]

Not the first time either - the procurement of F-16s took a similarly low-key approach.

[Vulcann]

I will be more interested when the below happens:

 

 

 

 

[Vega]

I am not too optimistic about the F35.

Trying to be a jack of all trades but master of none.....

 

Should give the Su-35 a try instead.

[Boringchap]

not sure if you guys caught this not so new news.

 

http://www.janes.com/article/42235/singapore-quietly-expanding-f-15-fleet

Singapore quietly expanding F-15 fleet

 

 

 

Malaysia has the SU 30 NKM. How do our F15-SG stack up against these Russian made jets?

 

[Vulcann]

 

Malaysia has the SU 30 NKM. How do our F15-SG stack up against these Russian made jets?

 

 

Errrr... lay down and die?

 

 

But though technology plays a major part but it is usually the man in the controls who makes the difference in a dog fight.

 

Am pretty sure our flyboys got their plates full during their States training with the Yankees but not sure if our counterparts does so in Russia.

 

Of course I hope they don't

[Vega]

 

Malaysia has the SU 30 NKM. How do our F15-SG stack up against these Russian made jets?

 

 

Its a known fact when Russia design the Su27 (and the later variants like Su30,33,35,etc), its suppose to out gun F15 in all aspects.

thou both F15 and Su-xx never get the change to fight each other in a real combat, the US and Russia air forces did have a air to air exercise to test which is a better plane and the Su27 live up to its reputation.

 

Hope we get to see the latest F15SE to slug it out with the Su30/35 which again I think Su is a better plane in its maneuverability.

[macrosszero]

Actually with all this comparison of Yamato-class vs. Iowa-class, F-15 vs. SU27/35, Leopard vs. Abrams, I want to see none of them have to "slug it out" for real. These are top of the line weaponry for their time meant for high intensity, country-on-country conflict where people die by the thousand.

 

Its fun to compare specifications, armour, technology but I hope I never have to see them used in anger against each other in my lifetime, for we'll all be in big trouble.

 

You only need to see some of the HD videos of tanks being destroyed in the Syrian civil war to ram that point home in macabre detail.

[Ake109]

I don't seem to read or hear much about RMAF's Su-30MKMs. Anyone has stats/stories on their serviceability rates?

 

The Indian's seem to be complaining that their MKI's have a serviceability rate below 60%.

[Vega]

India armed forces has a reputation of poor maintenance to their equipment.

 

http://www.xairforces.net/newsd.asp?newsid=747&newst=9#.VP-TTJUR7mI

Indian Air Force lost 30 fighter aircraft, 10 choppers in three years.

 

Submarine can catch fire and exploded at base,

T-90s gun barrels premature failure that are produced by the Indians,

and the list goes on and on.......

 

Its a logistic nightmare for the indian armed forces as they import all sorts of weaponry from all over the world and probably the most "rojak" armed forces.

[Vulcann]

Actually with all this comparison of Yamato-class vs. Iowa-class, F-15 vs. SU27/35, Leopard vs. Abrams, I want to see none of them have to "slug it out" for real. These are top of the line weaponry for their time meant for high intensity, country-on-country conflict where people die by the thousand.

 

Its fun to compare specifications, armour, technology but I hope I never have to see them used in anger against each other in my lifetime, for we'll all be in big trouble.

 

You only need to see some of the HD videos of tanks being destroyed in the Syrian civil war to ram that point home in macabre detail.

Well, can't stop us boys from fantasising right?

 

Machiam some wished there was a time machine then for Iron Mike in his peak to travel back time and face Ali. That will be a match to die for I guess...