Dell XPS 27" Vs iMac 27"

[NightWind]

Tks for the feedback. I did follow-up on your proposal to research getting a 4k screen and a PC. But these are separate and bulky and i really prefer a all-in-one pc.

 

The games i play are not graphics intsensive n dependent on generating high frame rates like FPS and racing games etc. My games are startegy games which involve scrolling through maps and data which a 5k display will help. I ran the game on the 5k retina and it was so much easier to read and scroll.

 

I already tested out the games and my requirements on a iMac (albeit not a 5k iMac) and they run, even with the chromescripts. They also play RMVB and MKV files after installing the VLC player on Yosemite.

 

I think by this weekend i will prob get the iMac 5k. There is no other AIO in the market with such a display and for such a price. Dell has a 5k MONITOR but it does not include the PC. And to give an idea of the difficulty of setting up a AIO 5k PC, the 5K Dell display needs 2 Display Ports and a graphics card that also supports this. Even then it needs a dedicated OS to run the apps and graphics at 5K reso as windows cannot support 5k reso.

 

And even if windows can support the 5k reso its not that simple too as all the text at native 5k reso will look very small. The iMac 5k has a scaler that very nicely scales up the text so we can read it as it is in 5k resos.

 

I started off in this tread with many doubts on the iMac 5k retina, but after several weeks of reading and research, and also very helpful comments from the bros, my views have changed. I am still not a Apple fanboy. But i may just make an exception in the case of the iMac 5k retina.

 

 

 

I've said it before. The 5K is not a gaming machine. It has a hot Radeon GPU in a chassis with restricted TDP. Your stated goal was to play games... IMHO... DirectX > OpenGL

 

Just go with any Windows machine and a good 4K screen.

 

[ins1dious]

Tks for the feedback. I did follow-up on your proposal to research getting a 4k screen and a PC. But these are separate and bulky and i really prefer a all-in-one pc.

 

The games i play are not graphics intsensive n dependent on generating high frame rates like FPS and racing games etc. My games are startegy games which involve scrolling through maps and data which a 5k display will help. I ran the game on the 5k retina and it was so much easier to read and scroll.

 

I already tested out the games and my requirements on a iMac (albeit not a 5k iMac) and they run, even with the chromescripts. They also play RMVB and MKV files after installing the VLC player on Yosemite.

 

I think by this weekend i will prob get the iMac 5k. There is no other AIO in the market with such a display and for such a price. Dell has a 5k MONITOR but it does not include the PC. And to give an idea of the difficulty of setting up a AIO 5k PC, the 5K Dell display needs 2 Display Ports and a graphics card that also supports this. Even then it needs a dedicated OS to run the apps and graphics at 5K reso as windows cannot support 5k reso.

 

And even if windows can support the 5k reso its not that simple too as all the text at native 5k reso will look very small. The iMac 5k has a scaler that very nicely scales up the text so we can read it as it is in 5k resos.

 

I started off in this tread with many doubts on the iMac 5k retina, but after several weeks of reading and research, and also very helpful comments from the bros, my views have changed. I am still not a Apple fanboy. But i may just make an exception in the case of the iMac 5k retina.

 

 

 

 

You've done your homework. But I still don't recommend it for your use. Do consider that the Radeon in the 5K is not only hot... but is also not as fast as the current Geforce 9xx series.

 

And... they are not upgradable. The Dell 5K may not come with a computer... but the display doesn't become obsolete when the GPU does.

 

Also don't understand why people nowadays have to stress on not being a fanboy when it comes to buying Apple It's not like it is a cult or religion or something. It is only a tool that some find value/use in and others don't. Too each his own....

[NightWind]

Thanks again bro. Once again i hear you loud and clear and i agree with you conceptually. But bro, i got limited budget.

 

The 5K Dell monitor itself is already almost as expensive as the retina 5k imac. And i also needf to fork out serious cash to buy a highend rig to push the graphics through to the monitor. Maybe a Mac Pro is upto the task but the Mac Pro itself is above $3k already. No money la so beggars cant be choosers.

 

I also hear you on the restrictions of the 2gig Radeon. To be honest my needs are modest. But i am upgrading the standard DDR3 ram from 8 to 16gig in the iMac Retina 5k lower end version. Oh yeah, i am getting the lower end version of the 5kretina. I will get additioanl 8gig of Crucial DDR3 ram. Apple charges me $280 for the add on ram but Crucial costs only $100.

 

I know with the exception of the ram the rest of the iMac chasis is not upgradeable so i think the ram upgrade will suffice to address any performance issues.

 

Ok ok i use the term fanboy too loosely. I really meant i dont like apple products period. Dont like their iphones, watches, laptops. So this purchase is an exception.

 

Once again thanks for the feedback which i found immensely useful. Later if i can find that youtube comparison between the Dell 5k and the iMac 5k retina i will post it for your viewing pleasure.

 

 

 

You've done your homework. But I still don't recommend it for your use. Do consider that the Radeon in the 5K is not only hot... but is also not as fast as the current Geforce 9xx series.

 

And... they are not upgradable. The Dell 5K may not come with a computer... but the display doesn't become obsolete when the GPU does.

 

Also don't understand why people nowadays have to stress on not being a fanboy when it comes to buying Apple It's not like it is a cult or religion or something. It is only a tool that some find value/use in and others don't. Too each his own....

 

[ins1dious]

Thanks again bro. Once again i hear you loud and clear and i agree with you conceptually. But bro, i got limited budget.

 

The 5K Dell monitor itself is already almost as expensive as the retina 5k imac. And i also needf to fork out serious cash to buy a highend rig to push the graphics through to the monitor. Maybe a Mac Pro is upto the task but the Mac Pro itself is above $3k already. No money la so beggars cant be choosers.

 

I also hear you on the restrictions of the 2gig Radeon. To be honest my needs are modest. But i am upgrading the standard DDR3 ram from 8 to 16gig in the iMac Retina 5k lower end version. Oh yeah, i am getting the lower end version of the 5kretina. I will get additioanl 8gig of Crucial DDR3 ram. Apple charges me $280 for the add on ram but Crucial costs only $100.

 

I know with the exception of the ram the rest of the iMac chasis is not upgradeable so i think the ram upgrade will suffice to address any performance issues.

 

Ok ok i use the term fanboy too loosely. I really meant i dont like apple products period. Dont like their iphones, watches, laptops. So this purchase is an exception.

 

Once again thanks for the feedback which i found immensely useful. Later if i can find that youtube comparison between the Dell 5k and the iMac 5k retina i will post it for your viewing pleasure.

 

 

 

 

The lower-end 5K comes with a 7200 rpm HDD. Which is a PITA in the year 2015. Ideally you should have an SSD... or at the very least, a Fusion drive... the 1TB fusion option in apple website is $280/-.

 

Fusion works very well for OSX. But if you want to Bootcamp into Windows, the Win installation in only maintained/run from the 7200rpm HDD. So boot and application loading is slower in Windows.

 

A cheap solution will be to get an external thunderbolt SSD and use Target Disk Mode to boot into OS X instead of paying Apple for the Fusion/SSD drive. Not sure if Windows can be installed on the external SSD. You will have to research that...

[NightWind]

Hi ins1dious, just a quick update that i bought and have been using the iMac 5k retina for a few days. Everything works. The chrome scripts, VLC player, bittorent etc.

 

My only grouse is that the magic mouse suxs big time and i had to use my old wired gaming mouse which is heaps better.

 

I found that i did not need to run bootcamp and windows at all as the mac os meets all my needs for the moment, including word and excel.

 

This really is a much much better display compared to the Dell XPS 27. If u scroll back to the start of this tread u will see i did a uturn after much research. The Dell does not offer a 5k monitor AIO so the iMac 27" 5k retina enjoys a monopoly in this niche segment, for the moment. And its cheaper than the Dell XPS 27 so really it was an easy decision once i did the research.

 

Thanks again for all the help and useful comments

 

 

 

The lower-end 5K comes with a 7200 rpm HDD. Which is a PITA in the year 2015. Ideally you should have an SSD... or at the very least, a Fusion drive... the 1TB fusion option in apple website is $280/-.

 

Fusion works very well for OSX. But if you want to Bootcamp into Windows, the Win installation in only maintained/run from the 7200rpm HDD. So boot and application loading is slower in Windows.

 

A cheap solution will be to get an external thunderbolt SSD and use Target Disk Mode to boot into OS X instead of paying Apple for the Fusion/SSD drive. Not sure if Windows can be installed on the external SSD. You will have to research that...

 

Edited June 16, 2015 by NightWind

[ins1dious]

Hi ins1dious, just a quick update that i bought and have been using the iMac 5k retina for a few days. Everything works. The chrome scripts, VLC player, bittorent etc.

 

My only grouse is that the magic mouse suxs big time and i had to use my old wired gaming mouse which is heaps better.

 

 

That Apple Magic Mouse sucks. I use the trackpad as it can mimic the gesturers, etc that I'm used to when using my rMBP. But neither are necessary... currently using my Razer DeathAdder with my 5K as the trackpad ran out of charge and I'm too lazy to change batteries

 

I have only been using Macs since mid-2008. Before that was all PC's... first computer was when I was 9/10 years old... a PC 8086... after having used a long list of PC hardware and OS's from both MS and Linux.... for me, the solution of Mac and OS X has been the easiest to pick up and maintain.

 

Things didn't always work as I expected under OS X... so I always had a couple of apps/solutions to meet my needs. Apple has been adding and deprecating features so not all of the below may be still useful for you. Just in case, however... quoting my email sent to my bro who also recently switched.

 

 

Here’s a collection of useful apps for OS X

1) Caffeine - a simple free app that when launched sits on the menu bar. Once clicked, it stops the screen saver from being activated or the computer from going to sleep.

http://lightheadsw.com/caffeine/

2) Better Touch Tool - awesome little system preference that can turbo charge the touchpad and/or mouse. Opens up a lot of gestures, shortcuts and window snapping… like the Aero snapping from Win 7. And its effing free!

http://www.bettertouchtool.net

3) gfxCardStatus - a free little menu app that can switch between the intel GPU and the 750M.

https://gfx.io

4) Name Mangler - OS X doesn't have an easy way to rename multiple files. I have ver 2 of the program that does a splendid job for me. Ver 3 is much better apparently but I prefer the older free version. Attaching my old ver. Just drag it to the Applications folder.

The link to the new ver 3…

http://manytricks.com/namemangler/

5) AppCleaner - while OS X installations don’t have the registry issue of Windows, they do leave cruft behind in temp folders. Normally uninstalling an app is just deleting or dragging it to Trash. But I use app cleaner so that it searches and removes the cruft as well.

http://www.freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/

6) Coconut Battery - complete info on the state and life of battery.

http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

7) Main Menu - gives a GUI for regular UNIX commands to clear temp files/logs etc from the mac. They’ve gone paid now… but I continue using the old freeware. Drag it to Applications.

8) for zip files… no 7Zip for Mac but have The Unarchiver

http://wakaba.c3.cx/s/apps/unarchiver.html

9) Clip Menu - clipboard manager… its alright I guess… its free… looks like here are better looking managers but they cost money and don’t do much more than Clip Menu

http://www.clipmenu.com

10) Default movie play should be VLC. Avoid quicktime player like a plague.

11) iStat Menus - is a system resource monitor. New version is paid. I use the old Dashboard Widget which was free. Run and add widget.

12) Read and Write to NTFS drive - I honestly don’t remember doing this in recent memory. Though I did this when I first got a Mac in 2008. Typing this email in the 5K iMac and I have full access to my Bootcamp drive… I can read and write to NTFS. And I know I didn’t do any of the steps listed in the link below for this machine. Having said that… this current 5K iMac has been restored/mirrored from my rMBP… which itself was a restore/backup etc from a previous 13” MBP and that goes back to the original 2008 macbook…. so maybe that original NTFS-3G setting has been carried over till now. All my other app settings, shortcuts have been carried over multiple times so maybe this has as well.

http://www.macbreaker.com/2014/06/how-to-enable-writing-to-ntfs-hard.html

Read/write of FAT/FAT32 isn’t a problem… but writing to NTFS was….

 

My dropbox link to the small apps...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ejhivnvue8bn80j/AABEAmBcCbnpBgrnHKcZ05zQa?dl=0

[Sp4wn]

just to add on to the apps i use on a daily basis:

 

Kiwi for Gmail (backed this on kickstarter for $5) basically an app to run gmail natively as an app in OS X.

 

vienna - my go-to RSS reader

 

synergy - for using my pc to control my mac (i have a mac mini next to my pc. i can use the pc's keyboard and mouse to interact with the mac)

 

fantastical 2 (for mac) - imho .. one of the best calendar programs out there. have both (for ios and mac)

 

(you can google all the apps above, they are fairly easy to find)

[Nzy]

Hi ins1dious, just a quick update that i bought and have been using the iMac 5k retina for a few days. Everything works. The chrome scripts, VLC player, bittorent etc.

 

My only grouse is that the magic mouse suxs big time and i had to use my old wired gaming mouse which is heaps better.

 

I found that i did not need to run bootcamp and windows at all as the mac os meets all my needs for the moment, including word and excel.

 

This really is a much much better display compared to the Dell XPS 27. If u scroll back to the start of this tread u will see i did a uturn after much research. The Dell does not offer a 5k monitor AIO so the iMac 27" 5k retina enjoys a monopoly in this niche segment, for the moment. And its cheaper than the Dell XPS 27 so really it was an easy decision once i did the research.

 

Thanks again for all the help and useful comments

 

 

 

 

Only thing I don't like about the thinner Macs is that they throttle when under load. I was using a iMac last week and under heavy load, it felt sluggish so I decided to see what was happening and noticed that the Mac was throttle down to 1+ghz under load. Kind of defeats the purpose of the higher spec since it throttles when the performance is needed. These thinner Macs seem to work well for light use only.

[NightWind]

Thanks fer sharing sir. I did think about getting a trackpad. was looking for a mac compatible all in one keyboard with trackpad.

 

Alas the ones i see at Harvey are all only for windows. But i am quite happy with my current set-up. No complaints n so far so good.

 

Btw i did not pay extra for the extended warranty and apple care. Both cost more than $300 n cover the 1st 3 years, a period where things don't normally fail. And when i begin the 4th year, things fail, the HDD will probably fail and the cover is not there when i need it. So i would have to fork up more cash anyway to get a replacement HDD.

 

Does anyone know the replacement cost of a 1 tetrabyte SATA hdd? When it fails i might decide to go SSD.....hmmm

 

 

That Apple Magic Mouse sucks. I use the trackpad as it can mimic the gesturers, etc that I'm used to when using my rMBP. But neither are necessary... currently using my Razer DeathAdder with my 5K as the trackpad ran out of charge and I'm too lazy to change batteries

 

I have only been using Macs since mid-2008. Before that was all PC's... first computer was when I was 9/10 years old... a PC 8086... after having used a long list of PC hardware and OS's from both MS and Linux.... for me, the solution of Mac and OS X has been the easiest to pick up and maintain.

 

Things didn't always work as I expected under OS X... so I always had a couple of apps/solutions to meet my needs. Apple has been adding and deprecating features so not all of the below may be still useful for you. Just in case, however... quoting my email sent to my bro who also recently switched.

 

 

My dropbox link to the small apps...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ejhivnvue8bn80j/AABEAmBcCbnpBgrnHKcZ05zQa?dl=0

 

Edited June 17, 2015 by NightWind

[NightWind]

Perhaps this also explains why the macs seem to run cooler and more quiet? Mine does not make any sound at all and is not even warm to the touch. ok its slightly warm in the back but way cooler than a PC.

 

I added 8gig ram and brought it to 16gig and i think for my modest use and needs this would suffice. To be honest i think it was bit of an overkill for me as the 5k Retina iMac is meant for PROFESSIONALS like serious photo buffs, video editors, designers etc. And these users will really squeeze all the juice out of the iMac.

 

But for me, i am playing chrome scripted online games, web surf, watch some 4k youtube and do some torrents and thats it. So i doubt i will face any performance issues even if the display outputs all of this in glorious 5k resolution. So far i experience no noticeable performance lags.

 

 

 

Only thing I don't like about the thinner Macs is that they throttle when under load. I was using a iMac last week and under heavy load, it felt sluggish so I decided to see what was happening and noticed that the Mac was throttle down to 1+ghz under load. Kind of defeats the purpose of the higher spec since it throttles when the performance is needed. These thinner Macs seem to work well for light use only.

 

[Nzy]

Perhaps this also explains why the macs seem to run cooler and more quiet? Mine does not make any sound at all and is not even warm to the touch. ok its slightly warm in the back but way cooler than a PC.

 

I added 8gig ram and brought it to 16gig and i think for my modest use and needs this would suffice. To be honest i think it was bit of an overkill for me as the 5k Retina iMac is meant for PROFESSIONALS like serious photo buffs, video editors, designers etc. And these users will really squeeze all the juice out of the iMac.

 

But for me, i am playing chrome scripted online games, web surf, watch some 4k youtube and do some torrents and thats it. So i doubt i will face any performance issues even if the display outputs all of this in glorious 5k resolution. So far i experience no noticeable performance lags.

 

 

 

 

For your usage I guess its ok. I got some slight lag when using lightroom and expose. Some games I played also had some lag on the imac whereas on the mac pro I don't get the lag.

[NightWind]

so u r also using a 5k retina iMac? Did u get the higher end 3.5ghz version with ssd?

 

when did u buy yours? And did u get Apple care?

 

 

For your usage I guess its ok. I got some slight lag when using lightroom and expose. Some games I played also had some lag on the imac whereas on the mac pro I don't get the lag.

 

[Kangadrool]

Apple Care is highly recommended especially AIO iMac. The cost of replacing a logic board is almost the price of a new Mac.

 

Mac's logic board and HDD do fail.

 

Moreover, it covers doorstep servicing, pickup and redelivery.

 

Thanks fer sharing sir. I did think about getting a trackpad. was looking for a mac compatible all in one keyboard with trackpad.

 

Alas the ones i see at Harvey are all only for windows. But i am quite happy with my current set-up. No complaints n so far so good.

 

Btw i did not pay extra for the extended warranty and apple care. Both cost more than $300 n cover the 1st 3 years, a period where things don't normally fail. And when i begin the 4th year, things fail, the HDD will probably fail and the cover is not there when i need it. So i would have to fork up more cash anyway to get a replacement HDD.

 

Does anyone know the replacement cost of a 1 tetrabyte SATA hdd? When it fails i might decide to go SSD.....hmmm

 

 

 

[Nzy]

so u r also using a 5k retina iMac? Did u get the higher end 3.5ghz version with ssd?

 

when did u buy yours? And did u get Apple care?

 

 

 

Nope. I didn't buy it. But I do have access to a retina iMac. The one I used was the i7 version.

[NightWind]

ok tks I will keep this in mind. I think i have a year from date of original purchase to get Apple Care?

 

Fer me basically its murphy's law. If i get Apple Care the mac will die AFTER the cover period. If i don't get Apple Care the mac will die during the cover period. Its always the worst possible outcome lol.

 

I think a SATA hdd replacement costs is maybe below $350? But the logic board....hmm, is this the motherboard of the PC?

 

 

Apple Care is highly recommended especially AIO iMac. The cost of replacing a logic board is almost the price of a new Mac.

 

Mac's logic board and HDD do fail.

 

Moreover, it covers doorstep servicing, pickup and redelivery.

 

 

 

[Sturtles]

ok tks I will keep this in mind. I think i have a year from date of original purchase to get Apple Care?

 

Fer me basically its murphy's law. If i get Apple Care the mac will die AFTER the cover period. If i don't get Apple Care the mac will die during the cover period. Its always the worst possible outcome lol.

 

I think a SATA hdd replacement costs is maybe below $350? But the logic board....hmm, is this the motherboard of the PC?

 

 

 

The iMac is not exactly user friendly for self upgrades and replacement. So you will have to consider labour costs too

[NightWind]

Thanks insidious, i just loaded App Cleaner and its great

 

Do you have a cleaner app for maintaining the HDD, e.g. cleaning cache, free up ram etc

 

I also still can't play some WMV files. Its weird, i can play some WMV files but not all. I use the VLC player and also loaded flip4mac but they still don't play.

 

Does the mac run disk maintenance automatically (verify disk and repair disk) when i leave the mac on over night?

 

So far i have no regrets about my purchase but the Mac Os still needs abit of getting used to. Its not easy to open multiple windows or to locate files or even setup files in different folders. I can do the simple tasks but it takes much more effort than on PC.

 

Tks for your guidance.

 

 

That Apple Magic Mouse sucks. I use the trackpad as it can mimic the gesturers, etc that I'm used to when using my rMBP. But neither are necessary... currently using my Razer DeathAdder with my 5K as the trackpad ran out of charge and I'm too lazy to change batteries

 

I have only been using Macs since mid-2008. Before that was all PC's... first computer was when I was 9/10 years old... a PC 8086... after having used a long list of PC hardware and OS's from both MS and Linux.... for me, the solution of Mac and OS X has been the easiest to pick up and maintain.

 

Things didn't always work as I expected under OS X... so I always had a couple of apps/solutions to meet my needs. Apple has been adding and deprecating features so not all of the below may be still useful for you. Just in case, however... quoting my email sent to my bro who also recently switched.

 

 

My dropbox link to the small apps...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ejhivnvue8bn80j/AABEAmBcCbnpBgrnHKcZ05zQa?dl=0

 

[ins1dious]

Thanks insidious, i just loaded App Cleaner and its great

 

Do you have a cleaner app for maintaining the HDD, e.g. cleaning cache, free up ram etc

 

I also still can't play some WMV files. Its weird, i can play some WMV files but not all. I use the VLC player and also loaded flip4mac but they still don't play.

 

Does the mac run disk maintenance automatically (verify disk and repair disk) when i leave the mac on over night?

 

So far i have no regrets about my purchase but the Mac Os still needs abit of getting used to. Its not easy to open multiple windows or to locate files or even setup files in different folders. I can do the simple tasks but it takes much more effort than on PC.

 

Tks for your guidance.

 

 

 

Mac OS - built on the strengths of UNIX - is a low maintenance OS. Don’t worry about memory management, swaps and caches. The OS is very proactive about managing or killing tasks.

On the rare occasion that a software hangs, than you can force quit it by;

1) CMD + Opt + Esc to bring the Force Quit Application. Here there are a list of apps running and what is hanging. You can choose and select to kill an app.

2) If the app that’s hanging is pinned to your dock, than you can Right-Click on the app and toggle the Force Quit dialogue by pressing Option.

The OS runs background maintenance tasks all the time… when it knows that the computer is not being used for some heavy tasks. You can still initiate some basic unix commands by using the Terminal. Or use the MainMenu app that I linked. Run some basic tasks once a month. That is sufficient.

Forget about CHKDSK etc. Forget about the lower level tasks for now. Just learn to use the OS first.

Don't have a clue about WMV files. Never used them even when I used to use Windows.

IMHO, OS X is way better for windows management than Win 7. In Finder, when dragging a file/folder, the default is to move the file.

If you want to create a Copy, than use Opt.

If you wan to create an alias (a shortcut), than use Opt + CMD

OS X is powerful with keyboard shortcuts. Go to System Preferences -> Keyboard and see the basic commands there. Or setup new ones there. Even text expansion can be done here.

Use Spotlight for everything. To launch app, to find contact, to find a meaning, etc. You will find that life will be easier… especially after how much they will turbo charge it in the next version.

Edited June 25, 2015 by ins1dious