2015 Forester 2.0

[Datura]

Thank god I choose harrier turbo after seeing all the rubbish from MI

[Feudallordcult]

pardon my ignorance, isn't engine oil supposed to be black and viscous? i thought if it become watery then it is serious problem. hmmm...

 

https://youtu.be/p2zLeGHhdPw

 

pic speaks a thousand words...wonder how much more a vid

Thank god I choose harrier turbo after seeing all the rubbish from MI

I have all the evidence including a vid of the oil draining from my fna and I even collected a sample of the oil. 

 

I am now considering if there is anything worth pursuing. Bro Datura, I also like harrier but my $$$ no enough.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Feudallordcult

[richard_crl032]

I procrastinated on the change of my FNA's EO to motul cos I have only reached 3k in mileage and did the first 1k servicing about a month+ ago, so I thot of saving some $ for massage & body maintenance. how wrong I was...

 

On or about 2 weeks ago, I noticed that the engine was not "purring" the way it should (pardon for the lack of a better term). It was also developing some very slight vibes which my sensitive A-hole was able to detect. Trying hard not to nitpick, I decided to let it pass. Then FC went up like from 13 to 10 over 2 refills...BUT it was the sluggish pickup that was very prominent esp when I traveled along bartley flyover. I then called my mechanic and explained the situation but he said no need to change lah. Just drive until 5k then change and even then it was not necessary.

 

Then last night when I traveling along KJE-BKE-PIE, the pickup was comparable to my previous mazda3. Cannot take it liao...so booked an appt with my mechanic. When I was there, my mech drove my fna and also shared the same sentiments. My mech stood by his view that EO change was uncalled for but I insisted on motul....the shock came when he drained the EO...it was BLACK and THICK. don't ask me if there's coagulation/sledge but it was thick to the naked eye. Even my mech was taken aback when he sighted it. Instead he asked me a question which I simply could not answer despite having owned about 3 cars in the past. "did u got check the dip stick after 1k servicing?" Don't ask me how such a simple task slipped my mind and WHY I didn't check. Stupid me....precautionary advice to all bros...

 

My mech was cautious not to draw any conclusion from the adverse findings and neither am I....to avoid being slapped with a stupid defamation lawsuit, my only query is: Is it possible for shell helix ultra to have degenerated to such an extent after 2k of mileage??? disclaimer: the highest rpm I hv clocked was 3...and I am no F1 driver.

 

That's not all. When the car was jacked to drain the EO, we noticed that the undercarriage coating was done unevenly. And to think I paid good money for the crap.

 

My fna is finally back to its purring self...the vibes are gone (fingers crossed) or maybe my a-hole is numbed...rev sounds BETTER but it is just so damn disappointing.

Is it possible for shell helix ultra to have degenerated to such an extent after 2k of mileage???

 

Hi Feudal,

 

Certainly not ..shell is top 3 petrol company ..much bigger then motul.

 

From personal experience, my CO's qashqai had gone thru 1k, 5, 10k, 20, 30k and 40k at TanChong in the last 20 mths and all fine with their knwo Shell Ultra Helix 5w40 used for 1.2l turbo vs 5w30 for 2.0l.

 

Something must be very wrong at MI during 1k service which they have to explain.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

Edited July 31, 2017 by richard_crl032

[richard_crl032]

Thank god I choose harrier turbo after seeing all the rubbish from MI

Hi Datura,

 

Good choice but I took different route and glad I took back the 3k deposit for the harrier turbo and booked the fxt.

 

I would have regrets if I did not test drove the fxt once and borrow my kaki's fxt for 2 days after being one of the 1st who test drove the harrier turbo on the same evening when test drive was available at Ubi on friday evening and the 2nd time 8 days later on Sat morning to confirm that harrier turbo was not for me ...it was a case of head over heart for me.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: 157k for the luxurious model was not an issue for me

Edited July 31, 2017 by richard_crl032

[wpy]

Hi Datura,

 

Good choice but I took different route and glad I took back the 3k deposit for the harrier turbo and booked the fxt.

 

I would have regrets if I did not test drove the fxt once and borrow my kaki's fxt for 2 days after being one of the 1st who test drove the harrier turbo on the same evening when test drive was available at Ubi on friday evening and the 2nd time 8 days later on Sat morning to confirm that harrier turbo was not for me ...it was a case of head over heart for me.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: 157k for the luxurious model was not an issue for me

What were the factors that made you choose the fxt instead of the harrier?

[richard_crl032]

What were the factors that made you choose the fxt instead of the harrier?

Hi wpy,

 

Long version .... hard not to notice the harrier since so many around and it looks good with presence. I then had the chance to drive my FIL's top of the range sgd159k from vincar for 2 few weekends to fix the disable stopstart module and blindspot monitoring system but found it to be lacking in power, noisy when pushed, rides like a clumsy SUV against CO's 1.2L qashqai and quaint interior that lags also behind the qashqai .. I myself had been driving the souped up estima with full cusco bar, trd sports suspension etc. but need to change as it is due 10 yrs in Nov 2017. With this release of harrier turbo with 350Nm/227bhp, improved suspension and 6 speed non cvt gb against reported cvt failure of non turbo PI version, I had no doubt on getting one and hence the first few who placed the sgd3k deposit as well as test drive it.

 

Was also aware of the subaru FXT since kaki just collected his black edition in Apr 2017 as well as my neighbour having the FNA since 2016 but obvious to all that its aesthetic appeal is such that I did not bother to test drive it as a likely new car replacement .... until I compared the similar 350Nm/240bhp specification. Proceeded to test drive it while waiting for the harrier turbo and wow, that is how a 350Nm/240 1.6ton+ SUV feels ... nice !

 

Then back to finally test drive the harrier turbo and what happened to the 350Nm/226Nm ? Response was lacking and the handling is still distinctly a bulky SUV ?? The same quaint interior with washing machine touch controls did not help but worse was those suede or Alca something seat material which looks unslightly, dirty and dust magnet against good old leather ...it was then the non available luxury model at sgd157k instead of the tested sgd150k "premium" version.

 

Still wanted thr harrier turbo and borrowed kaki's FXT form2 days since I may had been overwhelmed initially by its 350Nm/240bhp and even drove it to test drive the harrier turbo for the 2nd time while nego on the FXT with trade in etc. is now at sgd121k. Again the Harrier turbo is nowhere near the ease of pickup and overall easy ride and that sealed the deal on the FXT... and it did not help that I am also pissed due to no significant perks of being one who put the sgd3k deposit as even walk-in customers on the 1st and 2nd test drive 8 days later the same price and zero trade in compared to 2k off at MI from 123.8k.

 

No regret since booking of the FXT except that as should have not bothered with the 2nd test drive of the harrier turbo as I had missed the Pearl White and Grey of choice and had to take the only silver available.

 

As mentioned, the harrier turbo is no doubt a better car than non turbo harrier but I would have regrets if I proceeded to book the only acceptable luxury model to me ... cos I test drove the FXT and knows what 350NM/240bhp is capable of .. easy and stress free drive of proven reliability as it nears total change to new platform in Sep 2018 similar to this new harrier turbo.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: AWD of FXT is great while BM did not bring in the more expensive 4WD harrier turbo albeit FC robbing but I am ok since estima is <=8km/l.

[Andyngps]

Hi wpy,

 

Long version .... hard not to notice the harrier since so many around and it looks good with presence. I then had the chance to drive my FIL's top of the range sgd159k from vincar for 2 few weekends to fix the disable stopstart module and blindspot monitoring system but found it to be lacking in power, noisy when pushed, rides like a clumsy SUV against CO's 1.2L qashqai and quaint interior that lags also behind the qashqai .. I myself had been driving the souped up estima with full cusco bar, trd sports suspension etc. but need to change as it is due 10 yrs in Nov 2017. With this release of harrier turbo with 350Nm/227bhp, improved suspension and 6 speed non cvt gb against reported cvt failure of non turbo PI version, I had no doubt on getting one and hence the first few who placed the sgd3k deposit as well as test drive it.

 

Was also aware of the subaru FXT since kaki just collected his black edition in Apr 2017 as well as my neighbour having the FNA since 2016 but obvious to all that its aesthetic appeal is such that I did not bother to test drive it as a likely new car replacement .... until I compared the similar 350Nm/240bhp specification. Proceeded to test drive it while waiting for the harrier turbo and wow, that is how a 350Nm/240 1.6ton+ SUV feels ... nice !

 

Then back to finally test drive the harrier turbo and what happened to the 350Nm/226Nm ? Response was lacking and the handling is still distinctly a bulky SUV ?? The same quaint interior with washing machine touch controls did not help but worse was those suede or Alca something seat material which looks unslightly, dirty and dust magnet against good old leather ...it was then the non available luxury model at sgd157k instead of the tested sgd150k "premium" version.

 

Still wanted thr harrier turbo and borrowed kaki's FXT form2 days since I may had been overwhelmed initially by its 350Nm/240bhp and even drove it to test drive the harrier turbo for the 2nd time while nego on the FXT with trade in etc. is now at sgd121k. Again the Harrier turbo is nowhere near the ease of pickup and overall easy ride and that sealed the deal on the FXT... and it did not help that I am also pissed due to no significant perks of being one who put the sgd3k deposit as even walk-in customers on the 1st and 2nd test drive 8 days later the same price and zero trade in compared to 2k off at MI from 123.8k.

 

No regret since booking of the FXT except that as should have not bothered with the 2nd test drive of the harrier turbo as I had missed the Pearl White and Grey of choice and had to take the only silver available.

 

As mentioned, the harrier turbo is no doubt a better car than non turbo harrier but I would have regrets if I proceeded to book the only acceptable luxury model to me ... cos I test drove the FXT and knows what 350NM/240bhp is capable of .. easy and stress free drive of proven reliability as it nears total change to new platform in Sep 2018 similar to this new harrier turbo.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: AWD of FXT is great while BM did not bring in the more expensive 4WD harrier turbo albeit FC robbing but I am ok since estima is <=8km/l.

Nice review. Many had compared the fc of harrier turbo vs fxt but how to compare a 2wd vs awd? On paper it seems harrier turbo is better on fc...but apparently in reality bm SE said the fc is about 9plus based on 50%hw. That is about same as fxt. Given the lag despite turbo...i will stick to fxt...not to mention the price tag difference...do agree thpugh fxt is the rugged look and not aesthetically appealing to many.

Sometime you are better off getting it done with outside workshop.

Hard to disagree. Will only go back MI for warranty if they honour it. Edited July 31, 2017 by Andyngps

[richard_crl032]

Nice review. Many had compared the fc of harrier turbo vs fxt but how to compare a 2wd vs awd? On paper it seems harrier turbo is better on fc...but apparently in reality bm SE said the fc is about 9plus based on 50%hw. That is about same as fxt. Given the lag despite turbo...i will stick to fxt...not to mention the price tag difference...do agree thpugh fxt is the rugged look and not aesthetically appealing to many.

Hard to disagree. Will only go back MI for warranty if they honour it.

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks ... give praise leh ..keke !

 

More seriously, in the 2 weekends with my FIL's non turbo harrier at 70/30 city/hway and attempt to get quicker pick up, I can only do 10+km/litre .... would not be surprised if your mentioned 9+km/hr at 50/50 city/hway for the new harrier turbo.

 

Btw, I dun think it is turbo lag of the Harrier turbo but how it was tuned. Tried the max setting and it woke up but it was harsh unlike FXT and it also defaults everytime to standard setting which is back to missing 350Nm/227bhp.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

Edited August 1, 2017 by richard_crl032

[Tohto]

I procrastinated on the change of my FNA's EO to motul cos I have only reached 3k in mileage and did the first 1k servicing about a month+ ago, so I thot of saving some $ for massage & body maintenance. how wrong I was...

 

On or about 2 weeks ago, I noticed that the engine was not "purring" the way it should (pardon for the lack of a better term). It was also developing some very slight vibes which my sensitive A-hole was able to detect. Trying hard not to nitpick, I decided to let it pass. Then FC went up like from 13 to 10 over 2 refills...BUT it was the sluggish pickup that was very prominent esp when I traveled along bartley flyover. I then called my mechanic and explained the situation but he said no need to change lah. Just drive until 5k then change and even then it was not necessary.

 

Then last night when I traveling along KJE-BKE-PIE, the pickup was comparable to my previous mazda3. Cannot take it liao...so booked an appt with my mechanic. When I was there, my mech drove my fna and also shared the same sentiments. My mech stood by his view that EO change was uncalled for but I insisted on motul....the shock came when he drained the EO...it was BLACK and THICK. don't ask me if there's coagulation/sledge but it was thick to the naked eye. Even my mech was taken aback when he sighted it. Instead he asked me a question which I simply could not answer despite having owned about 3 cars in the past. "did u got check the dip stick after 1k servicing?" Don't ask me how such a simple task slipped my mind and WHY I didn't check. Stupid me....precautionary advice to all bros...

 

My mech was cautious not to draw any conclusion from the adverse findings and neither am I....to avoid being slapped with a stupid defamation lawsuit, my only query is: Is it possible for shell helix ultra to have degenerated to such an extent after 2k of mileage??? disclaimer: the highest rpm I hv clocked was 3...and I am no F1 driver.

 

That's not all. When the car was jacked to drain the EO, we noticed that the undercarriage coating was done unevenly. And to think I paid good money for the crap.

 

My fna is finally back to its purring self...the vibes are gone (fingers crossed) or maybe my a-hole is numbed...rev sounds BETTER but it is just so damn disappointing.

Bro, there is no problem with the car brand.

The problem is the lousy and greedy local AD. I think if in US they will be sued you upside down already.

[Carhorn]

I think you are cursed Feudallordcult. No one I know with a FNA and FXT has all these issues you faced from rattling sounds to black EO. Is it ur car that has scratches when new from showroom? 

 

My EO always fresh and new during my free servicing at MI TP. Dipstick shows young fresh virgin EO 

 

Maybe they know I have my in car cam recording the activities happening around my car.

 

I do watch some of the video files to check on the amt of time spent in the service bar with no one attending to it. 

[Feudallordcult]

I have consulted with someone in the legal fraternity on this matter. Not much point to initiate any proceedings even with the video & pic...at best, even a claim with small claims tribunal seems remotely viable but the quantum will be peanuts i.e. the cost of the EO...and that's IF I am lucky. On the not-so-bright side, MI may even use the video against me for not changing the EO with them.

 

Learning points from this episode:

 

1) check, check and check dipstick after servicing;

2) insist on sighting the empty containers after the purported oil change;

 

Deviational point: hope PIs will bring in subbies in the forseeable future & subaru revokes the distributorship from the current jokers.

 

Too bad we don't exercise consumer protection even though gahmen recently amended the legislation on on fair trading...the punishment is just NOT harsh enough for errant suppliers to wake up their idea. 

[therock]

Can you tell them that you checked the oil and it was black and simply scold them?
Maybe that will make them more on the ball.

 

The itself is a superb VFM car, but if buyers all swallow the stuff Glen hands out, their service will continue to be poor and no one except the Tans' benefit..

IIRC correctly, Tan Chong servicing was actually pretty ok.

[mrhan1982]

Every once a while I still come back and see this thread... haiz. I really missed my fxt lol...

Ride comfort, refinement in terms of Wind and road noise, acceleration, handling are areas where fxt even thrashes my current conti car (vw touran 1.4tsi)

 

Even though my dsg 7 speed switches gears like nobody business but I still love the smooth and responsive fxt cvt.. lol

It's so easy to pick up speed and it rushes like mad in sports mode.

[AlvinTan_158205]

I have consulted with someone in the legal fraternity on this matter. Not much point to initiate any proceedings even with the video & pic...at best, even a claim with small claims tribunal seems remotely viable but the quantum will be peanuts i.e. the cost of the EO...and that's IF I am lucky. On the not-so-bright side, MI may even use the video against me for not changing the EO with them.

 

Learning points from this episode:

 

1) check, check and check dipstick after servicing;

2) insist on sighting the empty containers after the purported oil change;

 

Deviational point: hope PIs will bring in subbies in the forseeable future & subaru revokes the distributorship from the current jokers.

 

Too bad we don't exercise consumer protection even though gahmen recently amended the legislation on on fair trading...the punishment is just NOT harsh enough for errant suppliers to wake up their idea. 

 

AD wont give you the empty container, their engine oil might be in pail form. Not the usual 4-5L bottle. 

[wpy]

Hi wpy,

 

Long version .... hard not to notice the harrier since so many around and it looks good with presence. I then had the chance to drive my FIL's top of the range sgd159k from vincar for 2 few weekends to fix the disable stopstart module and blindspot monitoring system but found it to be lacking in power, noisy when pushed, rides like a clumsy SUV against CO's 1.2L qashqai and quaint interior that lags also behind the qashqai .. I myself had been driving the souped up estima with full cusco bar, trd sports suspension etc. but need to change as it is due 10 yrs in Nov 2017. With this release of harrier turbo with 350Nm/227bhp, improved suspension and 6 speed non cvt gb against reported cvt failure of non turbo PI version, I had no doubt on getting one and hence the first few who placed the sgd3k deposit as well as test drive it.

 

Was also aware of the subaru FXT since kaki just collected his black edition in Apr 2017 as well as my neighbour having the FNA since 2016 but obvious to all that its aesthetic appeal is such that I did not bother to test drive it as a likely new car replacement .... until I compared the similar 350Nm/240bhp specification. Proceeded to test drive it while waiting for the harrier turbo and wow, that is how a 350Nm/240 1.6ton+ SUV feels ... nice !

 

Then back to finally test drive the harrier turbo and what happened to the 350Nm/226Nm ? Response was lacking and the handling is still distinctly a bulky SUV ?? The same quaint interior with washing machine touch controls did not help but worse was those suede or Alca something seat material which looks unslightly, dirty and dust magnet against good old leather ...it was then the non available luxury model at sgd157k instead of the tested sgd150k "premium" version.

 

Still wanted thr harrier turbo and borrowed kaki's FXT form2 days since I may had been overwhelmed initially by its 350Nm/240bhp and even drove it to test drive the harrier turbo for the 2nd time while nego on the FXT with trade in etc. is now at sgd121k. Again the Harrier turbo is nowhere near the ease of pickup and overall easy ride and that sealed the deal on the FXT... and it did not help that I am also pissed due to no significant perks of being one who put the sgd3k deposit as even walk-in customers on the 1st and 2nd test drive 8 days later the same price and zero trade in compared to 2k off at MI from 123.8k.

 

No regret since booking of the FXT except that as should have not bothered with the 2nd test drive of the harrier turbo as I had missed the Pearl White and Grey of choice and had to take the only silver available.

 

As mentioned, the harrier turbo is no doubt a better car than non turbo harrier but I would have regrets if I proceeded to book the only acceptable luxury model to me ... cos I test drove the FXT and knows what 350NM/240bhp is capable of .. easy and stress free drive of proven reliability as it nears total change to new platform in Sep 2018 similar to this new harrier turbo.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

PS: AWD of FXT is great while BM did not bring in the more expensive 4WD harrier turbo albeit FC robbing but I am ok since estima is <=8km/l.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Congratulations on your purchase. Sorry you didn't get your preferred colour, but the pearl white, gorgeous as it is ,would've probably been more difficult to maintain.

 

MI's price of 121.8k for the FXT is a steal in Singapore car-price terms. There's nowhere else you'll find a 2L turbo 350Nm/240bhp  going for that price, or anywhere near it. If you ask me, that's an insane offer. 

 

I was seriously considering buying the Forester earlier this year and test drove both the XT and Outback, To be honest, I didn't know what to expect, as I'd never previously owned or driven a Subaru, and assumed it wouldn't be up to the mark of other Japanese cars, mostly because it tends to be priced lower than the others.(cheaper =not so good?). I couldn't have been more wrong. I was absolutely amazed at how well the Forester drove and handled. Despite its high profile, less than contoured design, the car felt amazingly solid and planted and had almost zero body roll. (Note: i wasn't going at a snails pace around the corners either). I guess it has to do with the weight distribution of its horizontal engine which sits much lower than an inline engine, giving it much greater stability.  

 

I also actually really love the design of the Forester. To me, it's what an SUV ought to be, rugged and muscular on the outside but comfortable and relatively plush on the inside. And of course with AWD or, at the very least, RWD.  In some ways it reminds me of a smaller version of the Toyota Fortuner , but with a much better design and proportion. I personally find that too many SUVs  these days look kinda wimpy, and are really more like hatchbacks. Hmm. my wife drives one of those. Anyway, that's just my own opinion.  Apart from that, the other things l liked about it was the suspension, which I felt was firm but comfortable, relatively quiet and spacious interior, and yes torquey enourgh for our roads. And of course the growl of the boxer at  higher revs.

 

Unfortunately, I can't say much about the Harrier as I haven't driven one. I did check out the NA version that the PIs were selling but never got to drive it . I trust BMs turbo runs way, way better anyway. I know some people who really like the interior of the new Harrier. The one I saw was nice , but not enough to make me think twice about buying one. (OK, I hated the red interior, looked damned gawdy, but the black I think would have been fine). 

 

Anyway, we eventually didn't buy an SUV, Forester or other,  cos the wife was insisting there's no point having two SUVs, (despite my arguments to convince her that what we have is not a real SUV, but an oversized hatchback) so we ended up getting a sedan instead. Maybe next time! :-) For now, at least, the Mrs is happy. :-)

[wpy]

I have consulted with someone in the legal fraternity on this matter. Not much point to initiate any proceedings even with the video & pic...at best, even a claim with small claims tribunal seems remotely viable but the quantum will be peanuts i.e. the cost of the EO...and that's IF I am lucky. On the not-so-bright side, MI may even use the video against me for not changing the EO with them.

 

Learning points from this episode:

 

1) check, check and check dipstick after servicing;

2) insist on sighting the empty containers after the purported oil change;

 

Deviational point: hope PIs will bring in subbies in the forseeable future & subaru revokes the distributorship from the current jokers.

 

Too bad we don't exercise consumer protection even though gahmen recently amended the legislation on on fair trading...the punishment is just NOT harsh enough for errant suppliers to wake up their idea. 

 

Is there some way you can register your feedback with Subaru, Japan? I checked their website and couldn't find anywhere to email feedback. Maybe MI needs a bit of a wake up call from its principal, Mr Subaru!

[andrewyewkc]

Was also aware of the subaru FXT since kaki just collected his black edition in Apr 2017 as well as my neighbour having the FNA since 2016 but obvious to all that its aesthetic appeal is such that I did not bother to test drive it as a likely new car replacement .... until I compared the similar 350Nm/240bhp specification. Proceeded to test drive it while waiting for the harrier turbo and wow, that is how a 350Nm/240 1.6ton+ SUV feels ... nice !

 

Then back to finally test drive the harrier turbo and what happened to the 350Nm/226Nm ? Response was lacking and the handling is still distinctly a bulky SUV ?? The same quaint interior with washing machine touch controls did not help but worse was those suede or Alca something seat material which looks unslightly, dirty and dust magnet against good old leather ...it was then the non available luxury model at sgd157k instead of the tested sgd150k "premium" version.

 

Still wanted thr harrier turbo and borrowed kaki's FXT form2 days since I may had been overwhelmed initially by its 350Nm/240bhp and even drove it to test drive the harrier turbo for the 2nd time while nego on the FXT with trade in etc. is now at sgd121k. Again the Harrier turbo is nowhere near the ease of pickup and overall easy ride and that sealed the deal on the FXT... and it did not help that I am also pissed due to no significant perks of being one who put the sgd3k deposit as even walk-in customers on the 1st and 2nd test drive 8 days later the same price and zero trade in compared to 2k off at MI from 123.8k.

 

No regret since booking of the FXT except that as should have not bothered with the 2nd test drive of the harrier turbo as I had missed the Pearl White and Grey of choice and had to take the only silver available.

 

The fxt indeed drives better than the harrier, both power response and handling. I also think that toyota stiffened the suspension to enhance the cornering so much so that the ride feels harsh to me.

The Subaru SE keeps quoting me a price of about $130k 6 bid non-guaranteed so how to get the $121.8k price?

[richard_crl032]

The fxt indeed drives better than the harrier, both power response and handling. I also think that toyota stiffened the suspension to enhance the cornering so much so that the ride feels harsh to me.

The Subaru SE keeps quoting me a price of about $130k 6 bid non-guaranteed so how to get the $121.8k price?

Hi Andrew,

 

Sorry to hear but mine was booked before the last 2 COE bids and I booked another one for my kaki.

 

The price listed then for FXT was 123.8k with 2k discount for tradein and hence mentioned 121.8k but 8 bid NG bid while the FNA was only 106k.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard