Formula One 2019

[D3badge]

On 9/24/2019 at 11:23 PM, Spring said:

Tks bro! 

Still find it strange that Alfa uses Ferrari engines n why on earth is Aston Martin advertising on a Red Bull car with a Honda engine! Point I’m trying to make is that F1 is about showcasing your engine capabilities, so if u r not providing the engines; I thought it would be common sense to not get involved at all?

FYI Ferrari is born out of Alfa Romeo and Alfa Romeo current Giulia and Stelvio QV their highest end spec like (AMG or BMW M series) engine is build by Ferrari! Thus Alfa Romeo linkage with Ferrari are very close.

thus for team Alfa to use Ferrari engine , I think it is ok. But the rest !!?! Hahaha I dunno 

[Spring]

1 hour ago, D3badge said:

FYI Ferrari is born out of Alfa Romeo and Alfa Romeo current Giulia and Stelvio QV their highest end spec like (AMG or BMW M series) engine is build by Ferrari! Thus Alfa Romeo linkage with Ferrari are very close.

thus for team Alfa to use Ferrari engine , I think it is ok. But the rest !!?! Hahaha I dunno 

Tks for sharing and yes I agree perhaps for Alfa Romeo, it's alright to use Ferrari engines since there is a historical connection. But for teams like McLaren using Renault engine seems strange as they are a car manufacturer in their own right. Personally, I see F1 as being a showcase for a manufacturer so if they use other engines, seems like a slap in the face or am I being too simplistic in my thinking?

[inlinesix]

6 hours ago, Spring said:

Tks for sharing and yes I agree perhaps for Alfa Romeo, it's alright to use Ferrari engines since there is a historical connection. But for teams like McLaren using Renault engine seems strange as they are a car manufacturer in their own right. Personally, I see F1 as being a showcase for a manufacturer so if they use other engines, seems like a slap in the face or am I being too simplistic in my thinking?

Historically, Mclaren has never build their own engine.  That's including winning streak of Ayrton Senna.

 

[louisbosco]

9 hours ago, RadX said:

Vettel is a real cbk ahahaha...

what you expect him to do lol. if you don't wanna give slipstream, maybe next time don't qualify on pole for a track like this..

 

F1 engines are not easy to produce. they have a lot of stringent requirements regarding power output and longevity as an example and sometimes it cost the team a lot of money to R&D and test a new engine spec out. mclaren or aston martin is not an f1 engine manufacturer. they have no experience in the turbo-hybrid era. hence why it is cheaper to sign an agreement with engine suppliers for the mid table and bottom teams. that way, the can focus spending their money on other stuff relevant to the team.. even like last year, christian horner was complaining about the renault supplied units that they pay so much for but were not living up to expectations hence the switch to honda power this year. the ever changing rules are what causes engine suppliers to drop out over the years. 

from my understanding, the units provided by Ferrari or Mercedes are not current year units. they're most like to be from the previous year. teams like this usually keep the latest tech for themselves and pawn off the old ones to the other teams. that is why they get so much money and monopolise formula 1

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by louisbosco

[inlinesix]

8 hours ago, D3badge said:

FYI Ferrari is born out of Alfa Romeo and Alfa Romeo current Giulia and Stelvio QV their highest end spec like (AMG or BMW M series) engine is build by Ferrari! Thus Alfa Romeo linkage with Ferrari are very close.

thus for team Alfa to use Ferrari engine , I think it is ok. But the rest !!?! Hahaha I dunno 

Alfa was evolved from Sauber F1.

Sauber F1 always have close working relationship with Ferrari.

Charles LeClerc was with Alfa when it was launched.

[inlinesix]

3 minutes ago, louisbosco said:

what you expect him to do lol. if you don't wanna give slipstream, maybe next time don't qualify on pole for a track like this..

 

F1 engines are not easy to produce. they have a lot of stringent requirements regarding power output and longevity as an example and sometimes it cost the team a lot of money to R&D and test a new engine spec out. mclaren or aston martin is not an f1 engine manufacturer. they have no experience in the turbo-hybrid era. hence why it is cheaper to sign an agreement with engine suppliers for the mid table and bottom teams. that way, the can focus spending their money on other stuff relevant to the team.. even like last year, christian horner was complaining about the renault supplied units that they pay so much for but were not living up to expectations hence the switch to honda power this year. the ever changing rules are what causes engine suppliers to drop out over the years. 

from my understanding, the units provided by Ferrari or Mercedes are not current year units. they're most like to be from the previous year. teams like this usually keep the latest tech for themselves and pawn off the old ones to the other teams. that is why they get so much money and monopolise formula 1

Since years ago, manufacturers team has never supply the latest spec engine.

[Ichibawa]

McLaren going back to Merc. Renaults are hopeless with hybrids, every team ditched them. Even late comer Honda can do better. 

[Spring]

2 minutes ago, Davidtch said:

Historically, Mclaren has never build their own engine.  That's including winning streak of Ayrton Senna.

 

Yes they were most successful in their partnership with Honda previously but I think they put McLaren engines in their street cars right? If yes then them having Renault engines and previously Honda ones seems a lack of confidence in their own engines in my opinion.

[louisbosco]

2 minutes ago, Davidtch said:

Since years ago, manufacturers team has never supply the latest spec engine.

hahaha. of course. this one common sense. if ferrari gave latest spec to alfa, then they lose out. face nowhere to hide..

 

8 hours ago, D3badge said:

FYI Ferrari is born out of Alfa Romeo and Alfa Romeo current Giulia and Stelvio QV their highest end spec like (AMG or BMW M series) engine is build by Ferrari! Thus Alfa Romeo linkage with Ferrari are very close.

thus for team Alfa to use Ferrari engine , I think it is ok. But the rest !!?! Hahaha I dunno 

do not associate F1 team names and brands with the consumer name and brands. in that case, mercedes and aston should be close in the consumer world, since most aston v8 are AMG supplied. but in reality they have nothing to do with each other.  with the only exception of Ferrari and scuderia.

[inlinesix]

2 minutes ago, Spring said:

Yes they were most successful in their partnership with Honda previously but I think they put McLaren engines in their street cars right? If yes then them having Renault engines and previously Honda ones seems a lack of confidence in their own engines in my opinion.

Mclaren was never a car manufacturer until Mclaren F1.  That time BMW V12.

Currently, F1 car using 1.6L TC engine with KERS.  This is so much different from Mclaren road car.

Road car division and F1 team is run separately.

[inlinesix]

3 minutes ago, louisbosco said:

hahaha. of course. this one common sense. if ferrari gave latest spec to alfa, then they lose out. face nowhere to hide..

That's provided Alfa has so much money to run its aero team.

Both Alfa and Ferrari is under FCM

[Spring]

43 minutes ago, Davidtch said:

Mclaren was never a car manufacturer until Mclaren F1.  That time BMW V12.

Currently, F1 car using 1.6L TC engine with KERS.  This is so much different from Mclaren road car.

Road car division and F1 team is run separately.

My point is F1 shld be a showcase of a car manufacturer's chassis and engine so if they don't hv any engine of their own, in my opinion; no point to compete but of course this just my simplistic logic as there could be other reasons why McLaren insists on competing in F1.

[Toeknee_33]

1 hour ago, louisbosco said:

from my understanding, the units provided by Ferrari or Mercedes are not current year units. they're most like to be from the previous year. teams like this usually keep the latest tech for themselves and pawn off the old ones to the other teams. that is why they get so much money and monopolise formula 1

Actually from what I read, its not true. Engine manufacturers Merc, Renault and Ferrari do give their customer teams the latest engines and not old ones from last seasons. For example, Ferrari gave Haas and Alfa their latest specs engine for the Belgium GP, while only introducing the upgraded engines for themselves in the following Italian GP. One possible reason was that they use customer teams to test-bed the engines for possible problems before running it themselves, especially when winning at Monza is so important to Ferrari.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.ferrari-give-customers-haas-and-alfa-romeo-engine-upgrade.1c94uv4NuRBkg3jPTcmqM4.html

Quick laps times depends on many factors other than a powerful engine. Look at Racing Point vs Williams (both Merc engine customers) and see their gulf in performance. Worse still, look at Renault works team losing out to their customer McLarens. Or compare Red Bull vs Toro Rosso with identical Honda engines.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Toeknee_33

[inlinesix]

12 minutes ago, Spring said:

My point is F1 shld be a showcase of a car manufacturer's chassis and engine so if they don't hv any engine of their own, in my opinion; no point to compete but of course this just my simplistic logic as there could be other reasons why McLaren insists on competing in F1.

I get your point.

Mclaren has been racing since 1966.  Only Ferrari is older than Mclaren.

Mclaren 1st attempt of car production was between 1992 and 1998.

The recent attempt was in 2010.

Ron Dennis has always been a perfectionist.  Maybe that's why Mclaren has not produced its own powertrain yet.

[Toeknee_33]

15 minutes ago, Spring said:

My point is F1 shld be a showcase of a car manufacturer's chassis and engine so if they don't hv any engine of their own, in my opinion; no point to compete but of course this just my simplistic logic as there could be other reasons why McLaren insists on competing in F1.

I think every team would love to have their own engines where they can control, develop and integrate precisely to their chassis and bodywork. But the fact is that it is just too expensive for them to go it alone, with the MGU-K and MGU-H and V6 turbo. Oh, and 3 engines has to last the whole season of 20+ races. Imagine the amount of money and time needed to make every part robust and reliable? Look at how Honda, even with its vast experience and resources, suffered for 3 long years before coming good of late.

[inlinesix]

14 minutes ago, Toeknee_33 said:

I think every team would love to have their own engines where they can control, develop and integrate precisely to their chassis and bodywork. But the fact is that it is just too expensive for them to go it alone, with the MGU-K and MGU-H and V6 turbo. Oh, and 3 engines has to last the whole season of 20+ races. Imagine the amount of money and time needed to make every part robust and reliable? Look at how Honda, even with its vast experience and resources, suffered for 3 long years before coming good of late.

Honda has been out of F1 for so long.

[louisbosco]

39 minutes ago, Toeknee_33 said:

Actually from what I read, its not true. Engine manufacturers Merc, Renault and Ferrari do give their customer teams the latest engines and not old ones from last seasons. For example, Ferrari gave Haas and Alfa their latest specs engine for the Belgium GP, while only introducing the upgraded engines for themselves in the following Italian GP. One possible reason was that they use customer teams to test-bed the engines for possible problems before running it themselves, especially when winning at Monza is so important to Ferrari.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.ferrari-give-customers-haas-and-alfa-romeo-engine-upgrade.1c94uv4NuRBkg3jPTcmqM4.html

Quick laps times depends on many factors other than a powerful engine. Look at Racing Point vs Williams (both Merc engine customers) and see their gulf in performance. Worse still, look at Renault works team losing out to their customer McLarens. Or compare Red Bull vs Toro Rosso with identical Honda engines.

 

hmm i was wrong. not last season. believe what i had in mind was the timing during the season. couldn't be last season stuff as that might not be relevant to current season rules depending on the years.. but anyway i overheard that from skysports commentary anyway.. christian horner gets on there very often.. something i vaguely remember from last year when they renault units kept failing..

i think it also depends on the engine manufacturer. depends on how they want to play their cards.. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by louisbosco

[Toeknee_33]

1 hour ago, Davidtch said:

Honda has been out of F1 for so long.

What I am trying to say is, even the mighty Honda can't make a good F1 engine right off the starting block, much less other lesser folks like McLaren and Aston Martin. 

And 2008 was not too long ago. Merely took an eight year break.