COE premiums continue rising; higher Nov-Jan quota unlikely to cool car demand, say dealers

[Ahwhye]

On 10/19/2023 at 1:29 PM, Fitmugen said:

It’s the perfect storm. 6.9m population brings in demand for PHV, home delivery. Cars and vans COE how to drop? We are at the point of no return already. They issue how many also no use, all the companies go in and sweep. There is no solution to this problem. Or does gahmen even view this as a problem???

why is collecting more $$$ a problem? if it is, then it is because you and me aren't the one collecting the $$$ .....

[Ahwhye]

On 10/19/2023 at 3:29 PM, yishunite said:

If these ministars took public transport regularly they would realise how difficult it is to use during peak hours and how long just to get to destinations once there is even 1 or 2 exchanges

And in Singapore time is the most precious commodity because we are all overworked and no one has spare time for anything including family so ppl willing to pay premium for time saving

So many problems all wrap together but none of these million-dollar-ministars experience such things so none got the balls to tackle them

please don't ask those ministars to take public transport, it is damn crowded already, the last thing anyone want is someone and his/her entourage of kahkia, security, bus/train co management and reporters etc etc take up more precious space for show.......

[limpeh6969]

i do agree that car population shd be limited. it's the "how" part that i dont agree with.

i don't think bidding is the ONLY fair way to distribute the limited COE.

just like BTO flats, HDB don't do bidding system, do they? otherwise prices of new BTO flats might also be millions of dollars.

i guess you guys know what i;m alluding to. ballotting is ALSO a fair way to distribute the limited supply of COE. why fair? 'cos everybody has equal chance of winning/getting one. and some of you might know, that China is already doing it in some cities.

how to make the balloting system fairer? one ballot per IC number? one ballot per family? should the winner be given a COE for free, or should it be paid for? how much should it be priced? $2? $20k? $50k? obviously there are follow-up questions to be answered.

 

[Mkl22]

On 10/19/2023 at 2:50 PM, Unfazed said:

No need so leh chey one. Make your vote count. It's not just about COE when it already kinda assoc itself to life generally

What’s it got to do with voting. You wait long long that a new government will abolish coe. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Mkl22

[Ahwhye]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:10 PM, limpeh6969 said:

i do agree that car population shd be limited. it's the "how" part that i dont agree with.

i don't think bidding is the ONLY fair way to distribute the limited COE.

just like BTO flats, HDB don't do bidding system, do they? otherwise prices of new BTO flats might also be millions of dollars.

i guess you guys know what i;m alluding to. ballotting is ALSO a fair way to distribute the limited supply of COE. why fair? 'cos everybody has equal chance of winning/getting one. and some of you might know, that China is already doing it in some cities.

how to make the balloting system fairer? one ballot per IC number? one ballot per family? should the winner be given a COE for free, or should it be paid for? how much should it be priced? $2? $20k? $50k? obviously there are follow-up questions to be answered.

 

balloting won't work one, if it is implemented, the next things you know there will be a lot of tua peh kong renting out their chance, they may own the car in name, but not a single chance to touch it and someone else is using it......

when $$$ is concerned, nothing is fair......

[Mkl22]

On 10/19/2023 at 2:23 PM, Benarsenal said:

The point is, it will not drop below $100k even with increased quota.

$100k COE is here to stay.

I say it will drop. Peak quota per bidding was 2200 for catA and 1470 for catB vs 800 and 475 now. 

[limpeh6969]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:37 PM, Ahwhye said:

balloting won't work one, if it is implemented, the next things you know there will be a lot of tua peh kong renting out their chance, they may own the car in name, but not a single chance to touch it and someone else is using it......

when $$$ is concerned, nothing is fair......

that IS true. even if you win, you SHOULD be allowed to SELL away your COE. there will be a secondary market for COE, just like open market for HDB resale flat.

but ultimately everyone CAN get a COE at a reasonable, predetermined price. if one cannot wait, he can always buy from the secondary market - just as how it is with HDB flats. 

and used car dealers should be pretty happy actually 'cos a 2nd hand car can fetch higher price than a new one - simply because it already comes with a COE.

[Ahwhye]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:42 PM, limpeh6969 said:

that IS true. even if you win, you SHOULD be allowed to SELL away your COE. there will be a secondary market for COE, just like open market for HDB resale flat.

but ultimately everyone CAN get a COE at a reasonable, predetermined price. if one cannot wait, he can always buy from the secondary market - just as how it is with HDB flats. 

and used car dealers should be pretty happy actually 'cos a 2nd hand car can fetch higher price than a new one - simply because it already comes with a COE.

if ever balloting is implemented, there will be something like MOP in HDB, otherwise people will just sell and profit, that defeat the purpose of being what you called "fair"...

[limpeh6969]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:33 PM, Mkl22 said:

What’s it got to do with voting. You wait long long that a new government will abolish coe. 

govt is supposed to gov to make life better for everyone

i aint gonna argue whether coe shd be maintained or abolished. ultimately, any policy or the implementation of any policy that does not make life any better must be changed/tweaked. coe is just one of them. we have so many others: taxation, FW, streaming (school, not torrent), housing and its pricing, etc etc etc

[Scion]

On 10/19/2023 at 2:53 PM, Didu said:

Our Minister-Under-Investigation already said liao, "Singapore will prioritise pedestrians, cyclists and public transport users, and reduce the need for private cars. This is the ‘car-lite’ future that we envisage as we plan and redevelop our precincts.” 

Why you people keep harping on this COE has issue ley?   🤷‍♂️😁

'A 33-year-old system has to be tweaked': Analysts on why the COE system needs a review

In the 33 years since Certificates of Entitlement (COEs) for vehicle ownership were introduced, the system has controlled Singapore’s car population. But private vehicles are now being used for ride-hailing services, and the COE system has not gone through a “more fundamental review” to deal with such changes, experts told CNA. 

One commenter on a CNA Facebook post said Singapore is being “penalised unnecessarily by a good system gone rogue”. Another said it is not effective because there are still traffic jams and called for it to be abolished.

CNA asked analysts if comments that the system is beyond repair are valid, or if the system is working as it should.

More generally speaking, transport economist Walter Theseira said that the distribution of COEs across vehicle types and uses is based on Singapore’s vehicle numbers in 1990.

It is unclear if the vehicle mix – such as the categories and permitted uses – best suit the country’s economic and social needs more than three decades after the COE system took effect.

“The example of PHVs simply shows how changes to business models and technology can result in changing uses of vehicles, which then sits uneasily with a COE system which essentially relies on the implicit assumption that the use of vehicles hasn't changed much since 1990,” he told CNA.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/coe-prices-cars-system-failures-tweaks-analysts-3852336

 

 

this article give a tight slap to Amy Khor loll 

 

Quote

https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/oral-reply-by-senior-minister-of-state-for-transport-dr-amy-khor-to-parliamentary-question-on-coes-for-private-hire-car-companies

Mr Chua Kheng Wee Louis asked the Minister for Transport 

a.     whether there is any evidence to suggest that car rental companies, particularly those leasing to the private hire vehicles (PHV) market, have affected Certificate of Entitlement (COE) bid prices in the past year; 

b.     if not, whether a study on this will be conducted; and 

c.     whether such rental cars and those used for PHVs can be removed from the COE bidding process.

Reply by Senior Minister of State for Transport and Sustainability and the Environment Dr Amy Khor:

1.     There is no evidence that private hire car (PHC) companies have caused the increase in COE bid prices. LTA has been monitoring the market closely and over the past year the demand for COEs from PHC companies as well as the overall PHC population have been stable.

2.     Recognising the role shared point-to-point (P2P) transport plays in our land transport system, from 2012, taxi operators did not have to bid for a COE to register their taxis. Instead, they draw from the pool of Category E (Open) COEs and pay the Category A COE prevailing quota premium. Taxi Availability standards were also introduced, and taxi operators can grow their fleets by up to 2% per annum, subject to meeting the standards.
 
3.     Unlike taxis, PHCs are essentially privately owned cars that have the flexibility and autonomy to take passengers, thereby augmenting our supply of P2P vehicles. Hence, PHCs are treated like privately owned cars under the vehicle quota system. Removing PHCs from the bidding pool and creating a new category with specific requirements, such as a minimum number of trips to prevent abuse would be difficult to enforce and adds to the compliance cost for PHC operators, drivers, and ultimately consumers.
 
4.     LTA will continue to monitor the P2P sector and study schemes for further enhancement.

 

[limpeh6969]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:59 PM, Ahwhye said:

if ever balloting is implemented, there will be something like MOP in HDB, otherwise people will just sell and profit, that defeat the purpose of being what you called "fair"...

MOP/MDP (minimum driving period) sounds good. i would probably appoint you as one key person in LTA if i were MoT perm sec.

[Comage]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:33 PM, Mkl22 said:

What’s it got to do with voting. You wait long long that a new government will abolish coe. 

I was also going to say the same - this has got nothing to do with votes.

In fact - the people who are driving up demand (and COE prices), are the ones who are taking the cars off the hands of PHV companies... and these are not the "true" private buyers who buy a car for personal/private use...

[Ahwhye]

On 10/19/2023 at 10:03 PM, limpeh6969 said:

MOP/MDP (minimum driving period) sounds good. i would probably appoint you as one key person in LTA if i were MoT perm sec.

hello.... if you were perm sec, and you talk fairness, I recommend you go buangkok green medical park......

[Fitmugen]

Home and car different la hello.

No home cannot start family and live independently from parents. No car can take public transport. Even if take taxi everyday, still cheaper than owning a car. Let’s not take arguments to the extreme.

 

 

[limpeh6969]

anyway...

regardless how rich you are, i dont think you like to pay 150k for nothing. yes yes, it's only 15k per year, $1250 per month, less than 50 bucks per day, and less than 2 bucks per hour.

but that's 15k per year that you;d rather spend travelling...eating...gambling...whatever you like.

and all of us know that unless the current system is changed, we'll all be spending that sum for nothing.

[limpeh6969]

On 10/19/2023 at 10:19 PM, Fitmugen said:

Home and car different la hello.

No home cannot start family and live independently from parents. No car can take public transport. Even if take taxi everyday, still cheaper than owning a car. Let’s not take arguments to the extreme.

 

 

home and car are different indeed. but life is not just about buying a flat and living inside it, correct? 

of course if you're contented with a roof above your head and clothes you wear, that's totally fine.

[limpeh6969]

On 10/19/2023 at 10:19 PM, Fitmugen said:

Home and car different la hello.

No home cannot start family and live independently from parents. No car can take public transport. Even if take taxi everyday, still cheaper than owning a car. Let’s not take arguments to the extreme.

 

 

oh before i forgot - if the coe keeps rising, do you agree that even taxi and phv fare will also go up inevitably? just to make sure we're on the same page.

[Voodooman]

On 10/19/2023 at 4:17 PM, inlinesix said:

Looks like I am the exception.

By MRT, it is 30 mins door-to-door.

By Car, it is 25 mins door-to-door.

With Grab ride easily costing $20-30 per trip, daily rental can go up and the sky is the limit. 

Don't think the system is designed for fleet owners having an outsized influence during period of really low COE quota.