Jaguar's Next Chapter, A Calculated or Suicidal Move?

[bsswan]

On 11/7/2024 at 7:06 AM, Carbon82 said:

Maybe Jaguar has a secret crystal ball that predict Aston Martin will be the next to fall?

Aston Martin Is Burning Through $1.8 Million a Day

• Dwindling demand in China and lackluster DBX sales signal tough times ahead for the storied British car maker.
• Aston Martin has spent over half a billion dollars this year, or around $1.8 million per day.
• The company has posted a pre-tax loss of $295 million following supply disruptions and weakening China demand.
• Production forecasts were cut by roughly 1,000 vehicles at the end of September.

Jumping into the SUV market as a small player was stupid, but Jag, BM, Lambo, and Ferrari all did - "it's what people want." It really isn't.

Some people will buy because it's there, but there's no need for them.

JLR is suffering because they decided to go full EV with the Jag, and the baby RR catches fire. The larger one, for a time, was very easy to steal because of a software big thing, I think. All this made RR uninsurable.

[inlinesix]

On 11/7/2024 at 8:56 AM, bsswan said:

Jumping into the SUV market as a small player was stupid, but Jag, BM, Lambo, and Ferrari all did - "it's what people want." It really isn't.

Some people will buy because it's there, but there's no need for them.

JLR is suffering because they decided to go full EV with the Jag, and the baby RR catches fire. The larger one, for a time, was very easy to steal because of a software big thing, I think. All this made RR uninsurable.

Both Ferrari and Lambo are highly sought after car.

It make sense to make FUV or SUV.

AM still a niche player.

Any limited edition from F or L are sold out before public launch.

[bsswan]

On 11/7/2024 at 9:05 AM, inlinesix said:

Both Ferrari and Lambo are highly sought after car.

It make sense to make FUV or SUV.

AM still a niche player.

Any limited edition from F or L are sold out before public launch.

I'm pretty sure if we do the maths, the investment in designing, tooling, selling such vehicles is not returned, albeit the Lambo seems to have had reasonable success compared to others because it was there early, and pricing wasn't stupid. They have experience from LM002 after all their tractors.

I don't believe Ferrari will recoup what they spent, and AM for sure not.

[Volvobrick]

On 11/7/2024 at 10:09 AM, bsswan said:

I'm pretty sure if we do the maths, the investment in designing, tooling, selling such vehicles is not returned, albeit the Lambo seems to have had reasonable success compared to others because it was there early, and pricing wasn't stupid. They have experience from LM002 after all their tractors.

I don't believe Ferrari will recoup what they spent, and AM for sure not.

Lambo saved costs by using VW/Audi chassis/engines. The others have to develop from zero. 

[inlinesix]

On 11/7/2024 at 10:09 AM, bsswan said:

I'm pretty sure if we do the maths, the investment in designing, tooling, selling such vehicles is not returned, albeit the Lambo seems to have had reasonable success compared to others because it was there early, and pricing wasn't stupid. They have experience from LM002 after all their tractors.

I don't believe Ferrari will recoup what they spent, and AM for sure not.

Lambo uses a shared platform and engine to develop Urus.  The development cost will be lower.

Ferrari confirmed will recoup the cost.  Ferrari has the demand for Purosangue.

But it is controlling the output to keep the value of Purosangue high.

Moreover, the engine is a carryover from 812 amid detuned.

[107fan]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:00 AM, serenade said:

A rare, expensive, great looking and very desirable collector's car. The owner must either be a great hands-on mechanic, or knows of one. Those 4 Stromberg or SU carburetors are a nightmare to keep in tune with each other.  I used to frequent a workshop located in an Esso petrol station along Clemenceau Avenue in the 1980s. The chief mechanic there was a Jaguar V12 engine specialist. 

He gave me face to service my humble Mitsubishi Colt amidst all the Jags. 

Where is this mechanic now? Still in business?

[107fan]

On 11/5/2024 at 12:08 AM, Carbon82 said:

Add a few more to your list. 

Bentley - German

Caterham - Japan

London Cab - China (n.k.a. LEVC)

Mini - German

Morgan - Italian 

Rover - 魂飞魄散，永不超生 with Rover brand name bundled together with the troubled JLR while the car 接尸还魂 reborn as Roewe in China, no thanks to BMW for selling the asset and brand ownership separately

Vauxhall - American/Italian/French, a.k.a.zup zeng

Austin, Jensen, Triumph, etc. 

I guess Aston Martin is the last man standing...still purely British.

Their Vantage and Rapide models still on my dream list.

Rapide, despite having poor rear space, is quite an attractive 4 door sedan to me. Possibly the most luxurious 4 door sedan you can get bar RR/Bentley.

[Mkl22]

On 11/7/2024 at 11:49 PM, 107fan said:

I guess Aston Martin is the last man standing...still purely British.

Their Vantage and Rapide models still on my dream list.

Rapide, despite having poor rear space, is quite an attractive 4 door sedan to me. Possibly the most luxurious 4 door sedan you can get bar RR/Bentley.

Very much in debt but likely to be around given that it has had 7 bankruptcies. cause still got idiots wanting to pump money in to save it cause they say it is swee….. 🤣
https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/shares/aston-martin-shares-tank-after-poor-first-quarter-and-soaring-debt

https://www.supercars.net/blog/supercar-brands-that-bounced-back-from-bankruptcy/#:~:text=Aston Martin has been bankrupt,bankruptcy incident was in 2007.

[107fan]

On 11/7/2024 at 11:57 PM, Mkl22 said:

Very much in debt but likely to be around given that it has had 7 bankruptcies. cause still got idiots wanting to pump money in to save it cause they say it is swee….. 🤣
https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/shares/aston-martin-shares-tank-after-poor-first-quarter-and-soaring-debt

https://www.supercars.net/blog/supercar-brands-that-bounced-back-from-bankruptcy/#:~:text=Aston Martin has been bankrupt,bankruptcy incident was in 2007.

Er it's their superhero pride leh. Killing off AM is like burying James Bond. How can?

Most likely here to stay 😄

[Volvobrick]

On 11/7/2024 at 11:57 PM, Mkl22 said:

Very much in debt but likely to be around given that it has had 7 bankruptcies. cause still got idiots wanting to pump money in to save it cause they say it is swee….. 🤣
https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/shares/aston-martin-shares-tank-after-poor-first-quarter-and-soaring-debt

https://www.supercars.net/blog/supercar-brands-that-bounced-back-from-bankruptcy/#:~:text=Aston Martin has been bankrupt,bankruptcy incident was in 2007.

Maybe should pivot to wallets and bags. Just slap on the AM brand. 

[serenade]

On 11/7/2024 at 11:49 PM, 107fan said:

I guess Aston Martin is the last man standing...still purely British.

Their Vantage and Rapide models still on my dream list.

Rapide, despite having poor rear space, is quite an attractive 4 door sedan to me. Possibly the most luxurious 4 door sedan you can get bar RR/Bentley.

Not really British made now, as most of their "normal" road cars use Mercedes AMG sourced engines, gearboxes, electronics and infotainment systems. Only the V12s use their own engines.

I have walked past their nostalgic and old school Newport Pagnell former factory in the 1980s. Hardly what I would call modern compared to the then Rover factory at Longbridge, which in turn was less modern compared to Toyota.

Their factory may have been old, but their cars were desirable. Everyday, I saw Aston Martins from the factory on test drives by the men who made them. They made a glorious sound pottering around the lanes of my university, before hearing the exhaust roar of the V8 as the cars accelerated hard along the straight road back to the factory.       

 

[serenade]

@107fan I doubt he is still alive. Even if he is, will be very very old. The petrol station owner has passed on, the petrol station itself is now part of the CTE.

[serenade]

There is also the very British niche car maker, Morgan cars.

[107fan]

On 11/8/2024 at 11:18 AM, serenade said:

@107fan I doubt he is still alive. Even if he is, will be very very old. The petrol station owner has passed on, the petrol station itself is now part of the CTE.

If only he had apprentices who took over the expertise!

It's not the old Whitley road food court area right?

[serenade]

On 11/8/2024 at 12:20 PM, 107fan said:

If only he had apprentices who took over the expertise!

It's not the old Whitley road food court area right?

Former Esso station along what is today Clemenceau Avenue North. He was from Malayan Motors (now Wearnes), the agents for Jaguar. Respect for anyone who could work on the complex Jaguar V12 engine. Not least, the carburetors.

[Jamesc]

Suicidal because Trump said no more EVs

[107fan]

On 11/8/2024 at 12:29 PM, serenade said:

Former Esso station along what is today Clemenceau Avenue North. He was from Malayan Motors (now Wearnes), the agents for Jaguar. Respect for anyone who could work on the complex Jaguar V12 engine. Not least, the carburetors.

Got you. That merging lane into CTE directly outside the end of Emerald Hill estate.

I was considering a first Jag a couple of years ago but could only fit the XE in my plans. Not quite the Jag of yesteryears...

[107fan]

On 11/8/2024 at 10:55 AM, serenade said:

Not really British made now, as most of their "normal" road cars use Mercedes AMG sourced engines, gearboxes, electronics and infotainment systems. Only the V12s use their own engines.

I have walked past their nostalgic and old school Newport Pagnell former factory in the 1980s. Hardly what I would call modern compared to the then Rover factory at Longbridge, which in turn was less modern compared to Toyota.

Their factory may have been old, but their cars were desirable. Everyday, I saw Aston Martins from the factory on test drives by the men who made them. They made a glorious sound pottering around the lanes of my university, before hearing the exhaust roar of the V8 as the cars accelerated hard along the straight road back to the factory.       

 

That was a beautiful memory. Can almost visualise it.

Did you at least rent an AM during your years in the UK? Or visit the other automotive towns like Gaydon/Coventry?

 

Speaking of AM and Mercedes, no greater joy than to watch these 2 in action.